stuttgart1

iTrader: (3)

I think Jim Russel at Infineon would be more to learn, since Infineon is a technical track, if you do it well there you can do well on many other track.

Evo05lution

iTrader: (27)

my girl friends dad works for skip barber...if you are iinterested i MIGHT be able to help you out on the price for the class that you want. PM me...

Bobby

straylight9

Hi Bobby,

PM'ed you.... am highly interested. Thanks!

westchester evo

iTrader: (7)

Do NASA Pro Racing. You can use your own car. You get an instructor and work at your own pace and when you get good enough they sign you off solo.
I have been with them for 7 years and they are great...

zazzopizza

My suggestion would be......Go learn the basics but don't spend a lot of money$$$$.
Then check out some local tracks and race clubs and go a do DE events(drivers education). Meaning these events are not timed and you are not racing wheel to wheel and you have an instructor in the car coaching you, but make sure you go with a couple different instructors because you learn new things from each of them(also find one with a similar car)!!!

And remember........



SEAT TIME! SEAT TIME! SEAT TIME!

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

Ahhh the well proven road to mediocrity

Galant VR-4 #34

iTrader: (4)

I'd recommend a few HPDEs to see if you really like this roadracing stuff prior to any serious school. I started out doing HPDEs, did that a few times and had some pretty good instructors (actually one was Paul G.) but, the deal is you are never going to be really fast until you are pushed and instructed by dedicated professional instructors in a dedicated school setting. HPDEs no matter who is instructing you is not going to get you to become a top level driver. Just to show you how important top notch instruction is, even the T1 Nationals champion in the NE division still gets private instruction. BTW, I went to the Skippy school at VIR and would HIGHLY recommend Paul's school to anyone.
Marty

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

Thanks marty and you make some good points. The fact is that people invest so much more into their cars than themselves and it just seems silly to me. When you add up a years worth of HPDE's you're well over the cost of a professional school, a couple of advanced days and a couple of races in their respective series.

People are always extolling the vertues of "seat time" but if the instruction is poor (and the unwitting student doesn't realize it) then bad habits are always formed and the more seat time the more ingrained those bad habits become (and the harder to brake).

Wouldn't you rather get quality over quantity? Know its right first then build on it? Anyone who reads my posts on driving also know I am a huge fan of skidpad training first, how many clubs teach that and with sufficient seat time (with correct instruction)? Heck, I don't think I've seen a club guy able to do more than a single consecutive lap opposite lock on a skidpad, my guys can go till the thing runs out of gas

Is club instruction better than nothing? maybe maybe not depending on the instructors and the driver. Is a pro school better than nothing? Every time

If you invest in you own skills first think about how much smarter you will be when you do upgrade your car and therefore will save yourself a ton of money (doing things right the first time) and have a much faster car/driver combination as a result. OR go the club route and take advice from average drivers (who are self proclaimed experts) to fix supposed "handling issues" that make you waste money on things you don't really need...

splurta

Marty's comment brings up the question I wanted to throw out into this debate - that is, what about private instruction? That is, hire a professional instructor for say two days using your own car? This of course would be more useful for people who do not aspire to race door to door, but want to improve their driving.
Jason

Galant VR-4 #34

iTrader: (4)

I'm sure Paul will speak on this, but I think its all part of the progression of the art of driving. HPDE's then a top notch school with professional instructors teaching a group then Professional drivers teaching one on one instruction. I see no good reason to skip the middle step for many reason's to include 1. You have to be a pretty darn good driver before you hire a pro to instruct you one on one or you just arent gonna get your moneys worth as he will have to teach you some pretty basic skills and thats a waiste of your money. 2. Im sure it would cost a lot of money to hire a pro and where are you gonna do this? are you gonna rent a track? If you are doing it for an HPDE it is not worth it, as you just cant push the limits or do the proper car control exercises, and its all about pushing the limits or you are not going to be fast and weve come full circle. Remember what I said, a National Region Champion who could teach at most schools hired the pro instructor to help him get those extra 10ths.
Marty

Barfly30

iTrader: (1)

...

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

That can work well, heck I do it and have for quite a while (1993-present). I wouldn't worry too much about learning in your car however, I like to teach in something very fundamental and pure, the type of car that emphasizes mistakes and a need for solid fundamentals (such as footwork and car balancing). If you learn in a car like that then you can literally drive anything. Those cars can be from sports racers to formula cars to well set-up old 911s. The EVO is a bit too forgiving to be an ideal teaching platform which unfortunately lets people assume you can drive it several ways and still be fast.

I guess the point of all this is to make sure whomever you end up having coach you is that they not only have a vested interest in your progress and are good communicators but have the ability to teach the same thing several different ways so they can find what resonates with you and finally personally possesses the skills to back it all up. That my friends is a tall order and why I recommend some place like Russell USA (especially after our changes roll in June 1)

JTB

iTrader: (23)

I will have to agree with Paul about starting off with some good training. If you learn from a pro how to do things correctly you will progress much more quickly. Once you have some good training under your belt you can then go do HPDEs and track days and practice what you learned.

I took the slow path and although I feel my skills are getting reasonable it took a long time. The people that instructed me at the beginning were basically able to show me their line or the accepted newbie line which basically meant brake in a straight line, late apex and then get back on the power. I learned this well until I realized that, although safe, it is very slow and not correct. It actually took a fair amount of time to unlearn it (Sometimes I think I am still trying)

It is a lot like learning a golf swing. Learn a bad habit, repeat is several thousand times and then try to learn the correct method. It is very hard.

Starting out with a good class will really give you a head start in the right direction.

Czubaka

iTrader: (11)

Paul, which Jim Russell course do you recommend? Is it the Techniques of Racing?

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

that'll do it