ZzyzxM

iTrader: (1)

I'm surprised I didn't see more on this here, so I figured I'd start a thread so you can "discuss" the "merits" of this.

August 2007 Fastrack, Solo, TECH BULLETINS, Item #2:

Since this is a clarification, it is effective IMMEDIATELY.

Here's a fair summary of the implications:

I encourage you to send your letters of applause and support to seb@scca.com**


** Note heavy use of irony.

russjnco

iTrader: (36)

This is such a hot button issue right now. The biggest problem I see is that until the Fed's have consistent 50 state emissions regs, there is going to be a lot of grey area. This goes quite a ways in eliminating some of that grey area for good and for bad. However, this doesn't make every high-flow cat illegal, my 2.5" Ultimate Racing cat does not trip a CEL and I'm using that without any tricks or suppression techniques.

McCall

iTrader: (8)

Agreed. I applaud the clarification actually because while my HFC may not be within all 50 state emissions regs, I have in no way modified, tricked, or changed the emissions parameters in my ECM/emissions system. Those who do that or add O2 sims or move the O2 sensor out of the main exhaust stream IMHO are outside the rules and even their intent.

Silencer

iTrader: (4)

STX/STU can use any hi-flow cat available on the market (even replace 3 cats with one-STI), but wait.........only the ones that don't throw a cell. What makes it interesting is that a specific brand hf-cat will throw a cell on some cars but not others of the same make, model, and year.

" 1 ) ECU must be in OBD ready state. (This means no resetting your ECU immediately before the event, changing battery, etc.)"

How are they going to police this one, !

If someone throws a cell during a run, is the run DSQ'd or is the driver DSQ'd for the entire event?

If the SEB keeps this up, we will be looking at a 12-edition encyclopedia for a rulebook.

Dave

McCall

iTrader: (8)

Makes sense to me. Just make sure you use a HFC that will not throw a light on your specific car.

It takes the ECU a specific run time/starts after the battery is reset before it goes back to it's "ready state". Any emissions inspection station can check for this since it stops those who are trying to pull this same trick from getting their car to pass inspection. I'm pretty sure a quick plug-in check by any OBD-2 scanner will show this.


Agreed. Some of these people's personal agendas are really starting to put a hamper on the fun of the class.

ZzyzxM

iTrader: (1)

So, which rules take precedence - emissions compliance, or the many other rules that allow you to change the cat, headers, downpipe, etc?

Clearly this "clarification" puts a number of rules at odds with one another - as Dave pointed out.

McCall

iTrader: (8)

I disagree with the "or" in your statement. The issue here is how you/me/SEB/SCCA defines "emissions compliance" with the STU-allowed mods. In my case I have:

1. Changed the cat, header/manifold, and downpipe
2. Retained all the ECU parameters/O2 sensors
3. My car does not have any CELs
4. It will pass my state's emission check

In my opinion, I'm emissions compliant while modifing my car to the limit of the rules. Now someone who adds the same mods BUT then either does O2 sims or changes the ECU to ignore CELs is not emission compliant in my opinion. See the difference?

ZzyzxM

iTrader: (1)

Yes, all the mods you've done are legal.

And if you car starting throwing a cat inefficiency code tomorrow, then what?

And what if it threw one during your runs on day 1 of Nats?

The bottom line is that you should never construct a rule set where one rule can directly result in another being broken. That's just not smart. They could easily throw out the "emissions compliance" verbiage altogether and nothing would change and we'd all still have the mods, as allowed in the rules, and the "gray" area would disappear - not grow tenfold.

Bottom line, this is causing a significant disruption. I've no doubt it will directly impact Nats participation and protests. A class & results clouded with protests is no fun - for anybody.

vboy425

iTrader: (19)

too many ghey *** rules.

Silencer

iTrader: (4)

Here is another fine thread to read:

http://sccaforums.com/forums/1/25521...ad.aspx#255216

Jason, some are saying that since you changed your less than 5yr/50k mile cat, you are illegal because it is not emissons compliant for your make, model, and year. Feds say you can't change an undamaged, perfectly working piece of emissions equipment. Yet it is an allowable mod.


Dave

EDIT: I missed the 8yr/80k mile cat rule for 96' and newer cars. My bad.

vboy425

iTrader: (19)

DaWorstPlaya

iTrader: (31)

McCall: No I do not see the difference, because while an EVO (or any other car for that matter) doesn't throw a CEL with a specific brand HFC, another EVO using the same brand/type HFC might throw a CEL. How is that fair? What is the SCCA supposed to say ... Oh he just got lucky?!?

There have been several instances in the past where certain cars (EVOs, STis, WRXs) haven't throw CEL with HFCs, only to starting throwing the inefficiency CEL after XXX miles (this has been noted to happen after 10+K miles) ... While I can understand the intent of the rules, this is another one that potentially will cause unfairness between competitors ...

russjnco

iTrader: (36)

Just to add a little food for thought here......I think the part that is really confusing for the SCCA is that in reality, federal and local guidelines really become moot when operating a vehicle on private property (I'm sure somebody will hastily correct me if I'm wrong here). That is why I don't have a problem with allowing high flow cats to begin with. At any autoX event you have anything from stock street cars, mildly prepared cars of any make or model and then flat out race cars that don't need to be licensed or insured. Technically I could pull the insurance and refuse to register my car to make it into a dedicated STU car. I could trailer it to an event where I can get my 3 + runs in and that would still be legal within the rules. So there are two ways to go about keeping emissions in check, either require all ST competitors to be licensed (that won't happen) or try and regulate emissions in some fashion through ECU monitoring. Personally, I think tricking the ECU or taking the O2 sensor out of the exhaust stream is not within the intent of the Street touring theme.

DaWorstPlaya

iTrader: (31)

Why can't the rules just be simple for everyone to understand and follow ...

Eg: All cats may be replaced with 1 HFC with a XXX cell count/rating ...

Easy to follow and simple to enforce, then allow whatever means to get rid of the CEL (if there is one) ...

Another one I wish the SCCA allowed is:
Any clutch may be used as long as it is an OEM style clutch with a single pressure plate ... no 4 puck, 6 puck or dual disk clutches/flywheels allowed ....

Simple ... no bickering over aftermarket clutches exceeding the stock pressure rating. Honestly there really isn't anything to be gained.

Too many rules for 4mins of "racing" on a good day ... sigh!

ReSin

iTrader: (1)

I don't think it's necessarily the HFC, but the how the aft O2 bung is located. My JIC was welded in at a 90 degree angle (like most exhausts) and it would give me a CEL. I changed it out with a Magnaflow exhaust, which was exactly the same, except the O2 bung was at 45 degrees, so it wasn't getting the full blast of exhaust...No CEL. I'm glad that I've moved on in classes. I loved that rear STB clarification not too long ago either. How about letting the class mature, then throw in the monkey wrench.

Dennis