EgoKillerEVO

iTrader: (6)

Works for me!

mxpop

I have never seen any type of racing that has no rules at all. Even "unlimited" classes have rules in all forms of motorsports (see why the HKS EVO was not at Laguna but was at Buttonwillow for ex...) The unlimited class AMS and GST cars etc followed many rules all year long, they (like everyone else) just had to follow one more for this event. This in no way invalidates the race results any more than any other rule in the book would.

You have to look at the sound limit as a rule that needs to be followed just like a fuel, suspension, motor, weight, tire spec, etc type of rule. Saying/implying that this is not a legit race due to a sound rule is like saying F1 is not legit because they have to follow any of their rules that you deem irrational. Even Top fuel with 8000whp has rules.....

I dont know what it would take to make you satisfied in determining "who's faster" but no matter where you go and no matter what you race, there will always be rules that impact your build and your strategy. As long as the rules are stated clearly ahead of time, are enforced evenly, and arent created/applied selectively, then the race is fair and valid.

ZzyzxM

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the education on "rules" ... I had no idea.

RTA is at a critical point in it's growth. First and foremost, RTA needs to keep both possible competitors AND the broader audience excited to be a part of the series, as spectator or competitor. This publicity, in turn, helps get sponsorships and sells products.

You know what's not exciting? Holding a final event where the top runners are either knocked out of the competition, or have to swap to their "low" (relatively speaking, of course...) HP engines to avoid being DSQ'd.

I think this is an important take-home lesson for for the RTA guys: If you want the tuner shops to build the most bad-*** car they can to the rules as written, then make sure you let them do battle where the facility let's them compete to the rules as written... Those rules I speak of are the ones written by RTA, not the ones written by Monterey County...

And speaking of the RTA rules, I've even emailed the RTA contact to help clarify some of what's in the rules to correct some errors. (haven't heard back just yet...)

ryan0

iTrader: (2)

i think they have some issues themselves. but i think they are trying to clear stuff up.

yooyooyoo

iTrader: (3)

Someone told me that they sometimes have a mobile sound monitor at that track. This makes sense since most of the cars were passing sound on Saturday with no problems and then getting killed on Sunday.

Cloud cover/weather conditions could have been the cause, but by the afternoon the clouds were gone and the weather was similar to the previous day.

Congrats to ryan0 on his second place finish in AWD street esp. since he's a privateer with a 142.xx?

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

disclaimer: this is my opinion as the AMS driver at the event (not necessarily AMS's opinion)

Congrats to Billy in the NSX, the car was fast they meet sound and they won (end of story)

However...I agree Infinion would be a much better choice, it is a better track and the sound limits are reasonable and attainable by an unlimited car.

Now on to my rant...The thing is about sound is that you can't compare one track to the next. At AMS we had our own sound meter and we were checking at Buttonwillow to see where we stood. We were fine there never measuring above 90db from points around the track. Then you go to laguna and due to the differences in acoustics and their measuring equipment we are at 103 db on our first pass. We then like everyone else started hacking away and adding to our perfectly reasonable exhaust (at any other track) spending serious money and time (we never had time to dial in the suspension or anything else for that matter) trying to comply with the draconian 92 db limit. I wonder how much money was spent collectively by the field to try to pass the test? On top of the time and money we had no track time to speak of because we'd be black flagged each time we went out to re-test (and you only got two re-tests per day).

To make it more frustrating we passed only to fail later with the same set-up and have to add more muffling, pass and then fail again later with new set-up. To say it was frustrating and a colossal waist of time and money is a huge understatement.

Many people were running completely unsafe exhaust modifications that should not have been allowed on the track. I was dodging bits of metal dryer and HVAC ducting all weekend long, it was crazy and dangerous. They all seemed to look the other way when it came to the mods to pass the test, none of that stuff should pass any sort of tech, no one was checking to see if any of it was safe or not.

To AMS's credit the exhaust was all welded and t-bolt clamped because we had the fabrication skills and equipment to do it all properly. Justin was even welding other peoples exhausts to try to help the other guys out.

Imagine a weekend spent across the country at the track where you get very few laps and spend the entire time trying to get the car to pass a sound test you had no idea (or way to check) how bad it was till the first time you go out, only to pass the test twice only to fail on your actual final timed run (you know the one with the boost up and the fresh tires on).

we get to stew over this one all winter...

ZzyzxM

iTrader: (1)

Talk about frustration.

The expense and frustration you relate to us is exactly what RTA needs to avoid in the future to stay afloat as a series in both the near and long term.

ryan0

iTrader: (2)

nail -> head.

you cant even compare it during different times of day and weather conditions.

but thats a rant towards f'n hippie tree huggers who live in the canyons near the track.

wasnt there a 'the noise is harmful to the mating cycle of the pigmy whatever gnat catcher twig eater' argument in there also?

mxpop

According to Katy (main official) in the driver's meeting, no roaming sound tests exist (but are much rumored...). The reason that so many teams were facing exhaust outlets to the left is because the track wants to minimize noise levels exiting the outside of the track and dont have problems with sound that points towards the infield of the CCW track.

My main "sound" knowledge is in motocross where we are facing noise issues at many locations. We are allowed 96db measured at 24 inches from muffler tip at a 45* angle at a given RPM (forget what rpm). We are actually allowed to have 96.999db and are allowed to be even higher depending on atmospheric/weather/humidity conditions. A knowledgeable sound tester should know how to account for these irregularities and compensate the results. Did that happen here? Who knows....

Unfortunately, sound limits will be hitting more and more tracks in the future. Those that can adjust best will prevail just like the best teams prevail against other new/added rules as they get into the rulebook.

It is unfortunate that there needs to be so much effort to comply with a rule that exists for just one track on the schedule. Maybe we can get RTA to get/pay for a higher db waiver for next year like the bigger series get otherwise a change of location may be needed until the sound issue hits more other tracks (and it will eventually...). Laguna is a great track and would be a shame to lose it off the schedule but it may make sense to divert to Sears point/Infineon until this can be worked out.

I believe that Cal Speedway has sound limits at times, does anyone have a list of what tracks have or are proposing sound limits?

trinydex

iTrader: (12)

why is everyone using truck style long pipes? you should have mufflers and resonators the whole length, having a longer pipe doesn't necessarily get you any benefits.

EgoKillerEVO

iTrader: (6)

Well, everybody knew where the microphone was, so another tactic was getting the exhaust pointed away from the mic and up high enough to avoid the sound bouncing off the walls so the microphone doesn't hear as much. Also, some may not realize that intake noise may have been the culprit as well, and Sunday's low cloud cover made meeting the noise limits harder than Saturday as well.

trinydex

iTrader: (12)

ic. should bring 5 foot resonators next year. if there is even a next year

ryan0

iTrader: (2)

werd.

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

6 mufflers? wth? Where you there?

Rules are rules are rules. I don't understand what all the *****ing is about. Let's see a show of hands of people that had entered this that didn't know about the tracks specific sound requirements where before they came?

Yea 92db sucks and yea even intake sound can be above that, but everyone competing had to deal with it and figure out how to pass and try to win. What's that saying? "That's racing..." ?

ryan0

iTrader: (2)

i had 3 resonators.. 3".. no muffler..

theres a lot of factors