Calling Nils and Robi - Laguna Seca Time Attack Nov. 11
Nov 13, 2007, 06:14 AM
#121
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Rules? The car was prepped to the same rules and was the same car that was raced all season as far as the rules are concerned.
The sound limit was the problem. And if the event was put on as a race, the sound limit would have been 103db. Not to mention where the sound reading s where taken.
From what I heard the cars that did pass had 6 or more mufflers on thier cars with dual exhaust. I agree, kudos for those who actually figured out how to get a win out of this situation, but we all know who the fastest was. Kill me, Im a little biased and sour about the whole thing but can you blame me? And I didnt even make the trip half way across the country. It hurts to put in all that time, energy and money into a race like this only to be dq'd for a sound limit that even street cars couldnt pass with a aftermarket exhaust. Thats not a race, its a touring event.
OK, I got it off my chest, rant over.
The sound limit was the problem. And if the event was put on as a race, the sound limit would have been 103db. Not to mention where the sound reading s where taken.
From what I heard the cars that did pass had 6 or more mufflers on thier cars with dual exhaust. I agree, kudos for those who actually figured out how to get a win out of this situation, but we all know who the fastest was. Kill me, Im a little biased and sour about the whole thing but can you blame me? And I didnt even make the trip half way across the country. It hurts to put in all that time, energy and money into a race like this only to be dq'd for a sound limit that even street cars couldnt pass with a aftermarket exhaust. Thats not a race, its a touring event.
OK, I got it off my chest, rant over.
Nov 13, 2007, 07:22 AM
#122
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I believe that Laguna allows higher sound limits for Moto-GP, Indycar, AMA, and a few other select events. Other than that, it's a 92db track the rest of the time. As much as that sucks, it is the only way to keep the locals from forcing a complete track closure and none of us want that. 92 is attainable and I am sure that every competitive team will return next year with a quiet system in place because that's what great teams do, they face issues, figure out how to solve them, and then continue to excell. Look at F1, smaller treaded tires, smaller motors that have to go 2 races, etc and they are still setting records!
Many teams did pass the sound limit just as they have raced all year while some got away with a little turn-out exhaust tip pointed away from the sound test booth (that worked for me) or some intake muffling. The unl guys obviously had the toughest challenge as they were used to having a no compromise exhaust system previously. With another chance at it, all the teams will be prepared and I cant wait to see what clever solutions these excellent teams will come up with for next year!
Many teams did pass the sound limit just as they have raced all year while some got away with a little turn-out exhaust tip pointed away from the sound test booth (that worked for me) or some intake muffling. The unl guys obviously had the toughest challenge as they were used to having a no compromise exhaust system previously. With another chance at it, all the teams will be prepared and I cant wait to see what clever solutions these excellent teams will come up with for next year!
Last edited by mxpop; Nov 13, 2007 at 07:30 AM.
Nov 13, 2007, 07:44 AM
#123
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92db was a rule.. FAIL.
my car had 3" exhaust with resonators.. PASS.
stop complaining.. rules are rules.
i could have been the fastest if i brought a formula car.. but that would be against the rules.. would you be here saying 'we all know who was fastest' referring to my cheater car?
Nov 13, 2007, 08:19 AM
#124
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92db was a rule.. FAIL.
my car had 3" exhaust with resonators.. PASS.
stop complaining.. rules are rules.
i could have been the fastest if i brought a formula car.. but that would be against the rules.. would you be here saying 'we all know who was fastest' referring to my cheater car?
my car had 3" exhaust with resonators.. PASS.
stop complaining.. rules are rules.
i could have been the fastest if i brought a formula car.. but that would be against the rules.. would you be here saying 'we all know who was fastest' referring to my cheater car?
A better analogy would taking the win at the Solo championships after the fastest driver got DQ'd for an evap-related (loose gas cap...) check engine light in one of the Street Touring classes (a CEL is considered illegal at this point...).
Thankfully, no competitor at this point has bothered to file protests to this effect... it's what we call "weenie" protests.
In this case, however, it wasn't the other competitors, but the track officials. And I doubt that any team would protest another TA car for being too loud in an effort to take the win at a TA event.
Nov 13, 2007, 08:54 AM
#125
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Bad analogy...
A better analogy would taking the win at the Solo championships after the fastest driver got DQ'd for an evap-related (loose gas cap...) check engine light in one of the Street Touring classes (a CEL is considered illegal at this point...).
Thankfully, no competitor at this point has bothered to file protests to this effect... it's what we call "weenie" protests.
In this case, however, it wasn't the other competitors, but the track officials. And I doubt that any team would protest another TA car for being too loud in an effort to take the win at a TA event.
A better analogy would taking the win at the Solo championships after the fastest driver got DQ'd for an evap-related (loose gas cap...) check engine light in one of the Street Touring classes (a CEL is considered illegal at this point...).
Thankfully, no competitor at this point has bothered to file protests to this effect... it's what we call "weenie" protests.
In this case, however, it wasn't the other competitors, but the track officials. And I doubt that any team would protest another TA car for being too loud in an effort to take the win at a TA event.
no.. bad analogy.. the MAIN rule when you go to laguna is sound... everyone in the country who races knows it... its not some ticky-tack CEL light.
there was no one protesting the redline rules.. the county of monterey mandates and enforces the sound levels..
Nov 13, 2007, 09:11 AM
#126
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Rules? The car was prepped to the same rules and was the same car that was raced all season as far as the rules are concerned.
The sound limit was the problem. And if the event was put on as a race, the sound limit would have been 103db. Not to mention where the sound reading s where taken.
From what I heard the cars that did pass had 6 or more mufflers on thier cars with dual exhaust. I agree, kudos for those who actually figured out how to get a win out of this situation, but we all know who the fastest was. Kill me, Im a little biased and sour about the whole thing but can you blame me? And I didnt even make the trip half way across the country. It hurts to put in all that time, energy and money into a race like this only to be dq'd for a sound limit that even street cars couldnt pass with a aftermarket exhaust. Thats not a race, its a touring event.
OK, I got it off my chest, rant over.
The sound limit was the problem. And if the event was put on as a race, the sound limit would have been 103db. Not to mention where the sound reading s where taken.
From what I heard the cars that did pass had 6 or more mufflers on thier cars with dual exhaust. I agree, kudos for those who actually figured out how to get a win out of this situation, but we all know who the fastest was. Kill me, Im a little biased and sour about the whole thing but can you blame me? And I didnt even make the trip half way across the country. It hurts to put in all that time, energy and money into a race like this only to be dq'd for a sound limit that even street cars couldnt pass with a aftermarket exhaust. Thats not a race, its a touring event.
OK, I got it off my chest, rant over.
From our standpoint we were not even going to run the event due to the db limit, we got back from Super lap battle on Wednesday night and then on Thursday set out to make a muffler system to get by sound, we couldn't do it on our race motor due to significant back pressure causing serious tuning issues. We decided to pull our high compression race motor and switch to our previous motor setup with lower compression and smaller turbo (GT30r) and I was still unhappy with the back pressure on the 3' truck chambered muffler that we were working with so we left the car at the shop and went to the track to help other teams (ESX, Calculated Risk etc etc).
When we got there a good friend of ours that runs a modified AWD Audi that had he had tuned on our dyno came up to me and said he was at 84db when we thought his car was louder than ours, this is why we went back to our shop and made a less restrictive setup for the car on Saturday afternoon and came back to run on Sunday.
I would imagine both our car and the AMS car would be sub 1:30 given no limits to contend with.
Mike
Nov 13, 2007, 09:15 AM
#127
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That said and to keep things in perspective, the city regs here allow 95dB from street cars.
If this is what you have to do and still not pass sound limits, then perhaps "racing" at a track that requires this isn't the best place to determine who's faster... Just a thought.
Last edited by ZzyzxM; Nov 13, 2007 at 09:19 AM.
Nov 13, 2007, 09:18 AM
#128
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When we got there a good friend of ours that runs a modified AWD Audi that had he had tuned on our dyno came up to me and said he was at 84db when we thought his car was louder than ours, this is why we went back to our shop and made a less restrictive setup for the car on Saturday afternoon and came back to run on Sunday.
Mike
Mike
Nov 13, 2007, 09:32 AM
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It's already been noted that the 92dB limit is lower than the regs used for most all races at Laguna Seca. I think that's the main point, here. The TA was run with "street car" sound limits. I doubt the ALMS and World Challenge cars & race bikes conform to this limit. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this.
If this is what you have to do and still not pass sound limits, then perhaps "racing" at a track that requires this isn't the best place to determine who's faster... Just a thought.
If this is what you have to do and still not pass sound limits, then perhaps "racing" at a track that requires this isn't the best place to determine who's faster... Just a thought.
heh... well just like with anything.. money talks.. you think redline brought in as much money to the county of monterey as ALMS does.. or even an SCCA club day?
scca club races are 90, 101, 103 db.. depending on race group and time of day.
103 times are special..
but like i said... everyone who races knew this coming in.. sucks.. but its life.. and a foul pole is still a foul pole.
Last edited by ryan0; Nov 13, 2007 at 09:35 AM.
Nov 13, 2007, 09:32 AM
#130
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The event is over everybody. Nothing you can do now, just concentrate on next season now. Who knows, maybe after this weekend, Laguna Seca may not be on the schedule for 2008. I am sure it was a huge PITA for Redline as well.
Nov 13, 2007, 09:42 AM
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It brings nothing to the table, really.
In my opinion, it's far more important for a clear victor to arise, with the cars prepped to the limits of the rules, making all the power they possibly can.
Here's to hoping that's what's in store for '08.
Nov 13, 2007, 09:48 AM
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I would agree that Laguna Seca is an inappropriate venue for the RTA series.
It brings nothing to the table, really.
In my opinion, it's far more important for a clear victor to arise, with the cars prepped to the limits of the rules, making all the power they possibly can.
Here's to hoping that's what's in store for '08.
It brings nothing to the table, really.
In my opinion, it's far more important for a clear victor to arise, with the cars prepped to the limits of the rules, making all the power they possibly can.
Here's to hoping that's what's in store for '08.
Mike