HKS Evo runs 1:43.5 at Buttonwillow
Nov 20, 2007, 11:21 AM
#151
Great suggestions Nik!
I've always thought it was strange to put 275+ tires on 18x10 wheels on a car that came stock with 225 and 17x8 and still categorize it as a "street Class car". Some car models can readily accept wider tires while others cant. This leveling of the playing field in Street class is welcome, will help with diversity, and will avoid a "one make" race.
As some of us have allready initiated plans, setups, and testing for next year, could you please clarify exactly what the street class tire rules will be ASAP so that our early efforts wont be a waste of time? I do have suggestions if you would like to contact me.
Thanks
I've always thought it was strange to put 275+ tires on 18x10 wheels on a car that came stock with 225 and 17x8 and still categorize it as a "street Class car". Some car models can readily accept wider tires while others cant. This leveling of the playing field in Street class is welcome, will help with diversity, and will avoid a "one make" race.
As some of us have allready initiated plans, setups, and testing for next year, could you please clarify exactly what the street class tire rules will be ASAP so that our early efforts wont be a waste of time? I do have suggestions if you would like to contact me.
Thanks
Remember, some cars come standard with really wide tires that would be elligible to run in the street class: 285 base corvette, 295 base carerra s (I know, I know, those are rear tire sizes). Heck some 350z come stock with 10 inch wheels.
Nick and JC: what would you suggest for the max width in the street class?
Last edited by Smogrunner; Nov 20, 2007 at 11:41 AM.
Nov 20, 2007, 11:39 AM
#152
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Boulder, Co.
Posts: 1,767
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
werd.. especially for street tires..
i hope jc doesn't mind some discussion about this.. but i walked away with a weird feeling.. when a manufacturer delivered street tire runs 0.8 secs faster than NT-01s and only 0.5 slower than a new DOT-R tire.. it doesn't make a lot of sense for some of us who have driven a lot of laps on both.
im mean its fully possible that unbeknownst to the driver, some tire manufacturer delivers some cooked tires in exchange for big sponsor stickers and a win.
i saw a few tires with spray painted model names on them.. usually a good sign of a 'experimental' tire..
maybe something as simple as coughing up a tire rack receipt may help.. who knows.. i hate the 'more rules' stuff but if theres money involved.. sometimes its a necessary evil.
i hope jc doesn't mind some discussion about this.. but i walked away with a weird feeling.. when a manufacturer delivered street tire runs 0.8 secs faster than NT-01s and only 0.5 slower than a new DOT-R tire.. it doesn't make a lot of sense for some of us who have driven a lot of laps on both.
im mean its fully possible that unbeknownst to the driver, some tire manufacturer delivers some cooked tires in exchange for big sponsor stickers and a win.
i saw a few tires with spray painted model names on them.. usually a good sign of a 'experimental' tire..
maybe something as simple as coughing up a tire rack receipt may help.. who knows.. i hate the 'more rules' stuff but if theres money involved.. sometimes its a necessary evil.
As Nick is indicating UTQG is not a good way to compare tires that is because the manufacture each individually decide what their UTQG is for a tire. It is different from brand to brand and unless some sanctioning body is checking them against one another so they are forced to build an equivalent tire. It is a grey area and in motorsports the savvy and aggressive will always rightly seek to gain an advantage. All it takes is a post run check (with a durometer) to stop the process...
Nov 20, 2007, 12:12 PM
#154
I would suggest a tire rule with specific allowed tires. And competitors durometer tested once the car comes off the track (at a specific temp). Just some thoughts here.
BTW, Leh, the tires were sticky, they felt very soft when cold and I saw a few sets that where blistered from the few sessions they ran. Again no excuses, just one of the difference. The HKS car is very serious car and has a lot of trick components on it, modified suspension geometry, and very light. Very impressive car and I have much respect for it and the team.
yea... but that would take some tire sponsers out of the situation.... wich cant really happen...
racing is really about polatics.. money... and advantages.. and cuttin the rules....
and hks coverd all that....
hell... hks coulda called these folks a year ago.. and said they were gona bring the car over... so they coulda changed the rules... to get the car here.. i think any US time attack series would do that... it would be good press...
when ur the baddest and the best... people will do that.... yokohama will give u sooper nasty tires.....
but i cant imagine that tire wich is really lacking some surface area... can be that much more sticky then a 315 A6 hoosier.... i would think the grip levels there would be about the same.... and thats giving alot of credit to the yoko...
then it gets to the point where its just money.....
and thats what racing is to begin with....... some baller dood that likes cars.... wich is pretty common....
money can hire the best people... to do the job... hell... whos to say HKS didnt pay a GT500 team to build this car and stick their name on it....
pretend you had 2 Mil budget..... besides buying a old jgtc car.... and stuff like that...
i have a list of people... ide have a new GTR here in December... and the car done running 1:42s at button willow by the time the US spec GTR hits the dealerships... i feel AMS would have a car running 42s there too... with that budget...
but thats why HKS is HKS.. and we arnt...
i kinda wana email NOB with a list of questions.. but i think that would be rude...
Last edited by kingleh@GSC; Nov 20, 2007 at 12:14 PM.
Nov 20, 2007, 12:21 PM
#155
Evolving Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ca
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
R,
If black choppers came to deliver me anything, I hope it would be better than just tires!
Yok did foot the $$$ for my tires but they were truly just randomly pulled off the shelf and not even shaved. They even have an older manufacture date and are far from a qualifying only tire, esp considering how many miles/cycles were on them before this race. I like to think that I'm special enough to warrant special tires from Yok but sadly, I'm not. I was trying out some NT01s during practice and actually used them in race #2 of Modified but I had a passenger during every practice lap up until the race. The NT01s and the A048s gave me almost identical times in the race which were about 2 seconds faster without passengers. Again, I think the reason my times on street/race compounds were closer than one would guess is because my setup was slightly off on the street tires and really off on the race tires. If you remember a previous discussion we had about a month ago, I predicted 1:40 on street and 1:38 on "R", I was pretty close.
PG,
Great suggestion on the durometer. Rules are meaningless unless they are enforced across the board and by qualified tech officials.
Smoggy,
I hate to stick my neck out with questions like this but here it goes. BTW, I reserve the rite to waffle/backpedal in the future . I think street class should have to use the stock wheels that came with the car and the tire size should be limited to whatever the tire manufacter says is approved for that rim size. I realize how arbitrary the UTQG 140 rating is but is still the only tangible way to seperate street tires from "R"" tires unless/until a master list of approved tires can be announced by race officals. I could see the point in allowing 1" wider wheels but I think it's important to keep rim diameter stock to prevent monster brakes from being used. BTW Smog, I'm not sure but, dont some of the cars you list come stock with "R" tires meaning that they would have to downgrade to street tires to race legally?
If black choppers came to deliver me anything, I hope it would be better than just tires!
Yok did foot the $$$ for my tires but they were truly just randomly pulled off the shelf and not even shaved. They even have an older manufacture date and are far from a qualifying only tire, esp considering how many miles/cycles were on them before this race. I like to think that I'm special enough to warrant special tires from Yok but sadly, I'm not. I was trying out some NT01s during practice and actually used them in race #2 of Modified but I had a passenger during every practice lap up until the race. The NT01s and the A048s gave me almost identical times in the race which were about 2 seconds faster without passengers. Again, I think the reason my times on street/race compounds were closer than one would guess is because my setup was slightly off on the street tires and really off on the race tires. If you remember a previous discussion we had about a month ago, I predicted 1:40 on street and 1:38 on "R", I was pretty close.
PG,
Great suggestion on the durometer. Rules are meaningless unless they are enforced across the board and by qualified tech officials.
Smoggy,
I hate to stick my neck out with questions like this but here it goes. BTW, I reserve the rite to waffle/backpedal in the future
. I think street class should have to use the stock wheels that came with the car and the tire size should be limited to whatever the tire manufacter says is approved for that rim size. I realize how arbitrary the UTQG 140 rating is but is still the only tangible way to seperate street tires from "R"" tires unless/until a master list of approved tires can be announced by race officals. I could see the point in allowing 1" wider wheels but I think it's important to keep rim diameter stock to prevent monster brakes from being used. BTW Smog, I'm not sure but, dont some of the cars you list come stock with "R" tires meaning that they would have to downgrade to street tires to race legally?
Nov 20, 2007, 12:25 PM
#156
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: California
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Remember, some cars come standard with really wide tires that would be elligible to run in the street class: 285 base corvette, 295 base carerra s (I know, I know, those are rear tire sizes). Heck some 350z come stock with 10 inch wheels.
Nick and JC: what would you suggest for the max width in the street class?
Nick and JC: what would you suggest for the max width in the street class?
We have yet to finish our research on the tire issue, so I cannot publish any final decisions yet. We aim to have our 2008 Rules revisions wrapped up before Christmas... As you can imagine, the "Tires" section is just one of many areas we need to tighten up.
Nov 20, 2007, 01:26 PM
#157
Evolving Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ca
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^^^ Thanks Nik, the sooner the better for planning/testing purposes! Will this be available on your web site or can we be put on an email list?
How about a class requiring that you use 4 temp spares?
How about a class requiring that you use 4 temp spares?
Last edited by mxpop; Nov 20, 2007 at 01:44 PM.
Nov 20, 2007, 01:51 PM
#158
Evolved Member
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Carlock, IL
Posts: 670
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't see why there is a big cry for more rules in the unlimited class. It is the unlimited class. People want to see and read about the fastest nastiest cars possible in that class.
Time attack should be about making the fastest car for three laps.
Time attack should be about making the fastest car for three laps.
Nov 20, 2007, 02:04 PM
#159
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: California
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
99.99% likely we will still require the use of DOT approved tires in all of our Classes next year.
We are receiving more and more interest from teams who campaign vehicles in other racing series that allow the use of non-DOT "slicks". We're attempting to accommodate these vehicles at our events because some of these cars are downright SICK... but we cannot allow them to compete with non-DOT tires and actually run for Fast Time of the Day... maybe an Exhibition Class? I dunno. I hate to turn away cool cars that people would absolutely LOVE to see at our events.
Nov 20, 2007, 02:26 PM
#160
I say let us run Autox tire compounds... but only in the unlimited classes
Lets just limit it to two sets of tires so we don't have teams switching tires after every 5 laps. Would be as easy as marking the tires prior to the event during tech.
If I want to soak my tires in a tire compound to soften them up I should be allowed to. I am allowed to do just about anything else to my car... why shouldn't I be able to do the same with the tires.
Hell isn't time attack about running the fastest time possible? I would love to have two sets of tires, one for practice and a "cheater set" for the timed session.
Maybe allowing us to modify the factory compounds in the unlimited class will drive the manufactures to build a Time Attack specific tire... who knows.
Lets just limit it to two sets of tires so we don't have teams switching tires after every 5 laps. Would be as easy as marking the tires prior to the event during tech.
If I want to soak my tires in a tire compound to soften them up I should be allowed to. I am allowed to do just about anything else to my car... why shouldn't I be able to do the same with the tires.
Hell isn't time attack about running the fastest time possible? I would love to have two sets of tires, one for practice and a "cheater set" for the timed session.
Maybe allowing us to modify the factory compounds in the unlimited class will drive the manufactures to build a Time Attack specific tire... who knows.
Last edited by BadazzCR; Nov 20, 2007 at 02:30 PM.
Nov 21, 2007, 12:28 AM
#161
yea.. ude hate to limit the unlimited cars to much...
it would be very respectable to say cars in your event are running the same times as rolex GT cars and speed GT cars... and pretty soon.. that will be happening....
im def with the tube frame rule....
it would be very respectable to say cars in your event are running the same times as rolex GT cars and speed GT cars... and pretty soon.. that will be happening....
im def with the tube frame rule....
Nov 21, 2007, 09:03 AM
#165
Evolving Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if a rule says "140 treadwear tire".. it is obviously meant to limit the hardness of the tire.. right?
just cause it doesnt say you cant bolt a jet engine to the roof of your car.. doesnt make it legal.