2008 BSP Discussion
Jan 14, 2008, 08:00 PM
#1
2008 BSP Discussion
Well, someone asked for it, so here it is.
Welcome to the 2008 BSP discussion. I'm personally building my car for BSP or whatever other SP they stick us in in 2009.
Last year's SM discussion has some good information that is applicable for BSP here:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=241435
In a similar vein to the SM thread:
What would you do if you could have your whole wishlist?
What are you doing with a realistic budget?
What can you get away with and have a competitive car?
The big question I have is: What weight savings are out there for a BSP car?
Since BSP is supposed to be a street-car class, how do you build a competitive car that can still be streetable? Daily driven?
Have at it!
Welcome to the 2008 BSP discussion. I'm personally building my car for BSP or whatever other SP they stick us in in 2009.
Last year's SM discussion has some good information that is applicable for BSP here:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=241435
In a similar vein to the SM thread:
What would you do if you could have your whole wishlist?
What are you doing with a realistic budget?
What can you get away with and have a competitive car?
The big question I have is: What weight savings are out there for a BSP car?
Since BSP is supposed to be a street-car class, how do you build a competitive car that can still be streetable? Daily driven?
Have at it!
Last edited by GTLocke13; Jan 14, 2008 at 08:26 PM.
Jan 14, 2008, 08:21 PM
#2
Suspension: With the ZZYZX EM sport setup on the market, we finally have a quality DA setup other than KW's for less than $3000. Spring rates are somewhat of a trade secret, but I've heard numbers like 12k front and 16k rear tossed around a lot. With our mounting point restriction, we can't do the roll center fix like the SM cars can, so we're limited to fixing the roll center with camber plates and then fixing the camber with offset bolts. The MR2s used to do this for tire clearance, but its an interesting way to skirt the "no geometry changes" rules.
Wheels and tires: The standard 18x9.5 w/ 285/30R18's setup seems to work. Not a whole lot more to say here until you get into weight savings with the wheels.
Power: I'm looking into what can be done here and have come to the conclusion that the few hp an intercooler buys you aren't worth the price. The big thing will be intake, exhaust, and tuning for race gas. I'm planning on running a GM 3-port boost solenoid controlled by the stock ECU. With all we can do with the stock system, I don't the need to go to an aftermarket controller. I'm wondering if any of the national competitors are using aftermarket manifolds or tubular headers, and how much that stuff will buy you.
Weight savings: I don't have much to say here; I haven't looked at the rules too much in this area. Feel free to chime in.
Drivetrain: This is where the big money gets spent in BSP. I'm planning on running the stock ACD and diffs until I blow them up. My unlimited budget option would be a Quaife front and Cusco 35/65 center. Still up in the air on the rear. In reality, I'm just hoping to hang on to the stock equipment for a while. I may look into the TRE rebuild service for the rear.
I've purposely left out Aero. I don't think it helps a whole lot at autocross speeds, short of the 6-foot wide, 3-element wings the A-mods run. If my driving improves to the point that I need another 0.050 second to win Nationals, I'll start thinking about aero. But feel free to discuss it.
Wheels and tires: The standard 18x9.5 w/ 285/30R18's setup seems to work. Not a whole lot more to say here until you get into weight savings with the wheels.
Power: I'm looking into what can be done here and have come to the conclusion that the few hp an intercooler buys you aren't worth the price. The big thing will be intake, exhaust, and tuning for race gas. I'm planning on running a GM 3-port boost solenoid controlled by the stock ECU. With all we can do with the stock system, I don't the need to go to an aftermarket controller. I'm wondering if any of the national competitors are using aftermarket manifolds or tubular headers, and how much that stuff will buy you.
Weight savings: I don't have much to say here; I haven't looked at the rules too much in this area. Feel free to chime in.
Drivetrain: This is where the big money gets spent in BSP. I'm planning on running the stock ACD and diffs until I blow them up. My unlimited budget option would be a Quaife front and Cusco 35/65 center. Still up in the air on the rear. In reality, I'm just hoping to hang on to the stock equipment for a while. I may look into the TRE rebuild service for the rear.
I've purposely left out Aero. I don't think it helps a whole lot at autocross speeds, short of the 6-foot wide, 3-element wings the A-mods run. If my driving improves to the point that I need another 0.050 second to win Nationals, I'll start thinking about aero. But feel free to discuss it.
Jan 14, 2008, 11:02 PM
#3
Your suspension ideas sounds good. Change out any bushings you can for poly bushings. This will improve turn-in crispness, transitions, and help reduce toe-change on suspension flex.
For power recommendations, there is no need to change the stock airbox. No need to change the BOV (assuming you are using an Evo9 unit). No need to change the intercooler, just spray it down with water between runs if it heats up. Where you can see some good gains is with a ported exhaust manifold, eBay or Works O2 housing, a good lightweight 3" or 80mm TBE, LICP, UICP, and a good tune for race gas. That should be good to get you in the high 300's for HP, with equivalent TQ.
For weight savings, some folks use a tubular exhaust mani to save ~7#. Remove radio and speakers, air conditioning, replace steering wheel and air bag with a racing wheel, lightweight wheels, cross-drilled rotors, lightweight seats, mini battery kit, replace cooling fan with a plastic FAL unit, lightweight clutch and flwheel.
EVOlutionary
For power recommendations, there is no need to change the stock airbox. No need to change the BOV (assuming you are using an Evo9 unit). No need to change the intercooler, just spray it down with water between runs if it heats up. Where you can see some good gains is with a ported exhaust manifold, eBay or Works O2 housing, a good lightweight 3" or 80mm TBE, LICP, UICP, and a good tune for race gas. That should be good to get you in the high 300's for HP, with equivalent TQ.
For weight savings, some folks use a tubular exhaust mani to save ~7#. Remove radio and speakers, air conditioning, replace steering wheel and air bag with a racing wheel, lightweight wheels, cross-drilled rotors, lightweight seats, mini battery kit, replace cooling fan with a plastic FAL unit, lightweight clutch and flwheel.
EVOlutionary
Jan 15, 2008, 07:11 AM
#4
Yeah, that reminds me: all the rubber upgrades: SS brake lines, solid shift bushings, poly motor mounts and suspension bushings, rear bump steer correction kit.
Sitting in my garage, I have a 3" downpipe and test pipe. How restrictive is the stock cat-back? Is there enough weight savings there to bother investing in a titanium cat-back?
My car is a daily driver, so radio and A/C are staying. I figure there's enough adjustment available in the nut behind the wheel to make up for the extra weight.
Sitting in my garage, I have a 3" downpipe and test pipe. How restrictive is the stock cat-back? Is there enough weight savings there to bother investing in a titanium cat-back?
My car is a daily driver, so radio and A/C are staying. I figure there's enough adjustment available in the nut behind the wheel to make up for the extra weight.
Jan 15, 2008, 08:39 AM
#5
The stock cat-back is VERY restrictive in terms of power (15whp) and spool (turbo response). It also is very heavy. The weight savings of a TI cat-back is very nice, but it's only 8lbs or so over a lightweight SS cat-back like Buschur's, and it's in an area where weight savings is least needed. Worth it if you want to spend every last dime for 8lbs, but not worth it if you just want to gain power, save weight, and save money.
For reference, my entire Buschur TBE weighed in at 30.0 lbs on my scale, and that's including the hardware to install it (washers, slip-fit sleeves, bolts, etc). By comparison, the Megan TBE it replaced weighed in at 40.0lbs on the same scale.
For reference, my entire Buschur TBE weighed in at 30.0 lbs on my scale, and that's including the hardware to install it (washers, slip-fit sleeves, bolts, etc). By comparison, the Megan TBE it replaced weighed in at 40.0lbs on the same scale.
Jan 15, 2008, 12:45 PM
#6
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this will be my first year autoxing, I'm going to run in Novice BSP with my region and see what happens. I don't have any plans for the car yet, just keep the basic power mods I already have now. I want to see how far the stock suspension and 140 treadware tires will get me before I pony up and by a decent set of rims, tires & a suspension next year.
this will be my first year autoxing, I'm going to run in Novice BSP with my region and see what happens. I don't have any plans for the car yet, just keep the basic power mods I already have now. I want to see how far the stock suspension and 140 treadware tires will get me before I pony up and by a decent set of rims, tires & a suspension next year.
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Jan 15, 2008, 08:02 PM
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Your suspension ideas sounds good. Change out any bushings you can for poly bushings. This will improve turn-in crispness, transitions, and help reduce toe-change on suspension flex.
For power recommendations, there is no need to change the stock airbox. No need to change the BOV (assuming you are using an Evo9 unit). No need to change the intercooler, just spray it down with water between runs if it heats up. Where you can see some good gains is with a ported exhaust manifold, eBay or Works O2 housing, a good lightweight 3" or 80mm TBE, LICP, UICP, and a good tune for race gas. That should be good to get you in the high 300's for HP, with equivalent TQ.
For weight savings, some folks use a tubular exhaust mani to save ~7#. Remove radio and speakers, air conditioning, replace steering wheel and air bag with a racing wheel, lightweight wheels, cross-drilled rotors, lightweight seats, mini battery kit, replace cooling fan with a plastic FAL unit, lightweight clutch and flwheel.
EVOlutionary
For power recommendations, there is no need to change the stock airbox. No need to change the BOV (assuming you are using an Evo9 unit). No need to change the intercooler, just spray it down with water between runs if it heats up. Where you can see some good gains is with a ported exhaust manifold, eBay or Works O2 housing, a good lightweight 3" or 80mm TBE, LICP, UICP, and a good tune for race gas. That should be good to get you in the high 300's for HP, with equivalent TQ.
For weight savings, some folks use a tubular exhaust mani to save ~7#. Remove radio and speakers, air conditioning, replace steering wheel and air bag with a racing wheel, lightweight wheels, cross-drilled rotors, lightweight seats, mini battery kit, replace cooling fan with a plastic FAL unit, lightweight clutch and flwheel.
EVOlutionary
I've got some good data on some of the weight savings, where it can be saved, what the actual numbers are, etc. I'll try and get it in here soon.
John
Jan 15, 2008, 08:32 PM
#11
I think it is really cool how the EVO community shares so much information to make ALL of us faster, rather than being super-secret about every little thing. I doubt that other car communities are so helpful . . .
About the only thing that most people really keep tight lipped on is their exact coilover setup as far as spring rates and dampning. . .
We should all be proud to be EVO owners.
You know what would be awesome - a Spec Evo road racing class similar to Spec Miata, Spec E30, and Spec Focus!
EVOlutionary
About the only thing that most people really keep tight lipped on is their exact coilover setup as far as spring rates and dampning. . .
We should all be proud to be EVO owners.
You know what would be awesome - a Spec Evo road racing class similar to Spec Miata, Spec E30, and Spec Focus!
EVOlutionary
Jan 16, 2008, 04:51 AM
#12
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I don't have that much done to the car, just an intake, exhaust, MBC & tune BUT I have an aftermarket clutch that I would need to remove to be legal in STU.
Jan 16, 2008, 06:50 AM
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So let me get this straight...you can run the GM 3-port and still be in BSP? I was under the assumption that any type of aftermarket boost control would put you in SM.
Jan 16, 2008, 06:54 AM
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f) Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical,
and electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be
altered or modified except as prohibited herein. Boost
pressure changes resulting from authorized changes are
permitted.
Last edited by chmodlf; Jan 16, 2008 at 07:12 AM.