Evo_Someday

I have yet to do any power mods myself but what I find most desirable about these mods (from what I have heard) is the reduced lag in spool up. I think I could get at least some benefit out of hitting boost sooner when coming out of a turn in 2nd gear.

Plus, as someone mentioned, it just makes the car that much more fun on the street. But I know the biggest gains are going to be from tires, suspension, and practice - so I have plenty of other places to spend my money first before I got installing exhaust parts and getting tuned.

Fair

Our EVO X only makes 280 whp currently, on COBB's dyno, but we haven't done the downpipe or O2 housing yet. I have seen STEVOs that run STU Nationally make in excess of 300, and even as high as 350 whp. Not saying who or how they defined STU legality, but it can happen. Don't fool yourself into thinking that every STU competitor in the nation interprets the rules exactly the same, either. I am not trying to imply anything about anyone, just stating the obvious: These cars are capable of 350 whp with the stock turbo and intake manifold.

On another subject: I can't wait to see the GRM ST tire test article (should be published around June?). Lots of new ST legal tires out this year and I suspect that the results will raise some eyebrows. I hope the AD08 makes it in by the deadline so we can see all sorts of variety at Nat's.

kekek

iTrader: (22)

I find that 350whp number to be a bit dubious. The reigning and multi time national champ bsp car is 350whp (or so Marshall says) with extra boost.

perhaps some competitors are using allowed parts that create boost creep (like an aftermarket O2 housing on a mivec motor) to their advantage.

russjnco

iTrader: (36)

I'm very suspect of that 350 number as well, if someone told me that then I'd be looking for the boost controller.

Fair

Uhh.... boost controller? That was 1990s hardware. Nowadays you can add boost in a modern Mitsu with the right programming. How can you "see" that? (to date there has never been a "boost protest" upheld in the SCCA in Stock, SP or ST, after 20 years of turbocharged cars in Solo racing - because there is no definitive way to police this rule).

But I forgot, nobody ever adds boost in STU, Santa Claus is real, and Ashley Simpson doesn't lipsynch on stage.

Look, just forget I mentioned it. We have to live in this Rose Colored Glasses world on the internet, I guess. Whenever someone suggests that something is possible if you bend the rules then THEY get tarred and feathered as the bad guy for even suggesting that someone might be cheating, not the handful of folks that are actually cheating. Its a small percentage of racers, admittedly, but it does happen. Again, there's no way to police this rule, so it doesn't matter.

The Street Prepared AC finally admitted as much and made unlimited boost legal.

russjnco

iTrader: (36)

I know that this has long been your axe to grind on the STU ruleset Terry but I have yet to see you drag a competitor into the protest shed if you know that somebody is "bending" the rules. To me it's pretty clear, if you alter the boost (either electronically or mechanically) then that's clearly defined in the rule book. The rule book also allows for boost changes as a result of modifications allowed, boost creep as a result of the O2 housing for instance. However silly these two rules are, there is still a distinction between the two.

This will be my 5th year of competition with my car and I know full well what could be done to an Evo to enhance its horsepower numbers. I'll be frank, my first year I ran a dynoflash tune that had altered boost tables on 91 octane, the next season when I started getting serious about competing on a higher level I had those reverted back to stock levels and my butt dyno couldn't tell a difference so this idea that that changing the boost tables on a stock ECU results in a tremendous horsepower increase is way overhyped. Now if you want to talk about the next step in electronic boost control like a Works unit that taps into the vacuum lines then that's another issue but one that could still be traced if you knew what you were looking for. I'll claim ingnorance on the Subie side as I don't have time to surf those forums to see what they do.

I'm not putting my head in the sand as I know there are some competitors out there that will find shiny sides of gray to play with but I don't think it's as wide spread as you believe it to be.

Evo8RA

iTrader: (11)

Some years back when I started modifying my car, I chose the BSP route so that boost would not be an issue. At the time, I observed friends running in STU at Nationals, commenting how a certain car was notably faster turn to turn than the rest of the competition. I would bet it is happening in STU today, but would side with Terry that it will never be caught, unless the driver is a complete idiot with the implementation. I will never cheat and wanted to make certain that I was on a level playing field with the rest of the competition. If I lose, it will be because I didn't drive well enough.

One other thing to note is that major boost changes CAN be made within the factory ECU. I'm running a COBB Access Port with stock boost solenoid, slight pill change and no aftermarket boost controller - mechanical or electronic. My boost adjustments are made in the factory ECU and I'm running 28psi tapering to 26 psi. I'm running in FP now so boost change methods are wide open, but you don't need to see something for boost to have a major change. This is not a surprise to the many people out there tuning the factory ECUs.

goofygrin

iTrader: (5)

The X is different from the IX and VIII in that the factory boost control is a bit more robust as well. I'm running 27 tapering down with just an AccessPort flash (like Mark). Of course, I'm BSP this year too.

DaWorstPlaya

iTrader: (31)

If there are EVOs producing 350WHP as "STU legal" then "technically" they're not legal for the class ... Such numbers are very hard to reach without increasing boost ... but obviously there are always going to be folks that aren't going to adhere to the rules. Such is life ... As mentioned above policing such practices is very difficult.

Silencer

iTrader: (4)

You might as well add a link to the "X vs. Y vs. Z Dyno" thread since the 350whp could be from an uncorrected cold Winter day on a DynoPak. This thread is also missing what a 100oct timing/fuel map will do for those who have dedicated Solo2 cars.

I have personally witnessed 308whp/297wtq on a Mustang Dyno STU legal tune (IX). My personal best from my 03' with the smaller 9.8 was 281whp on a Mustang Dyno but at only 260wtq (100oct).

Dave

goofygrin

iTrader: (5)

302/296 on an uncorrected Mustang dyno with the stock tune on my X on 93 octane. I could have likely gotten a few more HP by leaning the car out since the stock tune on the X is dog stinky rich.

GTLocke13

iTrader: (1)

In my opinion this is similar to what you get in the Prepared classes sometimes where you'll see a car laundry listed. If you think someone ended up faster than their track record has shown them to be, write a protest on the whole boost control system. ECU code, boost pills, wastegate spring, the works. The first thing I would check is the code, and compare the boost tables to stock numbers.

SS RX7 r2

iTrader: (1)

Maybe Terry is talking about a STi?

Uyeda's IX was the most powerful STU Evo I've seen, and he was making no where near 350whp. And that was with a Full-Race Header and a lot of custom tuning. Dave stated his #s for a very strong VIII with a Full-Race header, custom tuned on Torco 100oct, and his car just walked away from mine after the Pro start, plus I had shorter tires. Navid's ESP IX made 28Xwhp on Vishnu's low reading DD dyno, and his car ran a 12.8sec 1/4 mile. Although I did "hear" second hand that one year that some Texas cars were popping turbo hoses.

brian94ht

iTrader: (4)

I could just see the whole protest committee standing at the front of the car looking dumbfounded trying to figure out what to do first.
"Do you have a laptop?"
"We got one right over there but I wouldnt know what to do with it"
"It says boost pills, Should I check the glovebox for boost pills?" lol

Silencer

iTrader: (4)

As I remember it is up to the person(s) protesting to prove/debate their case, not the "protest committee". They are judge and jury, and can request anyone outside of the protest to wrench on the car, validate data, or answer questions. It may not be the perfect system, but I would give the ST protest commitee (voluntary) a little more credit, especially at Nationals.

Dave