delongedoug

iTrader: (20)

Just don't make unpolicable rules in the first place.

Loser

iTrader: (9)

Haha well I can't disregard that as a solution. But I see how much time and preparation Jay (kekek) puts into his BSP car and that scares me

I did two years of AS and finally got tired of changing tires at events and then the number of tires got out of hand once I started doing track I picked STU so I can arrive-and-drive at autox events and keep the tire swapping for HPDE/time trials. I'll worry about the CEL if I plan on doing any regional/national tour events.

DaWorstPlaya

iTrader: (31)

According to the rules it's still illegal ... there is provision for that in the rule book.

Yea see this part really irks me the wrong way because it has happened in the past. Where technically one car can be legal and another is illegal running the same equipment. Bogus ...

I agree.

I agree with you Chris but I would love to see the rules turned the other way. Eg: Stock cats have to be kept, no ECU tuning, no 100 oct, no brake caliper swap. Or if allowing HFCs then allow CEL fixes. I don't know when the unlimited rev limit rule got slipped in but its a dangerous one, IMHO.

Boost increase, HFCs, open fuel etc can alway be done in BSP and SM. I would love for STU to be: get some tires, slap on some coilovers/sway bars and go! One step above stock but way under BSP.

CDeutsch

iTrader: (5)

Except you could still run illegal maps but hopefully it would be a lot more noticeable if someone did and hopefully easier to figure out, since everyone should be ok with someone pulling there map if it's just the factory one in there. I wouldn't be opposed to this as a competitor, but as an Evo owner who uses the car for more then just AutoX, I WANT BOOST DAMN IT!

boost247

iTrader: (9)

Maybe I'm thinking about it too much, but as I read the rules, there's is nothing to suggest that a catalytic converter is immediately illegal once it throws a CEL. There is nothing below that says that CEL's cannot be cleared, only that they cannot be disabled or otherwise cloaked. If you're simply clearing a CEL, then you're not really performing a modification that "invalidate[s] the monitoring and/or reporting of the OBD-II system." The system remains in place and you're running a legal part, as any catalytic convertor is legal. Provided the car passes the emissions test as described by the previous poster and does not have the CEL illuminated during competition, I would think the car is legal.

But then again, there is a lot of contradiction in the rules. In any event, I have an e-mail in to solotech and hopefully I'll get a response that I can post here.

I have cited the following for future reference:

14.10 ENGINE AND DRIVETRAIN
Engine and transmission must remain unmodified, including emissions equipment, except as noted below. All emissions monitoring system hardware and software must be operationally functional as originally intended by the manufacturer. Tampering with emissions system software and/or hardware to create or cloak non-compliance is not permitted. Some examples of emissions system tampering are O2 foolers, disabling or deactivating Check Engine Light (CEL) code indication, backdating ECU internals from OBD2 to OBD1, etc.

STX, STU:
Any high flow catalytic converter(s) are allowed, but must attach within six inches of the original unit. Multiple catalytic converters may be replaced by a single unit. The inlet of the single replacement converter may be located no further downstream than 6" along the piping flow path from the original exit of the final OE converter.

Street Touring Clarifications:
On vehicles equipped with OBD-II monitoring, the I/M test relies on the OBD-II system to determine whether or not the vehicle meets the tailpipe emissions standards. Non-compliance is indicated by the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL, commonly called a check engine light). As such, modifications that invalidate the monitoring and/or reporting of the OBD-II system are not considered emissions legal.

donour

iTrader: (6)

That cat isn't illegal, the car is illegal because it doesn't pass emissions. Every car is different and you have deal with that.

d

donour

iTrader: (6)

You can't tamper with emissions monitoring equipment, at all. Not only does it have to work, but it has to work the way the manufacturer intended. If it was a 50-state car, then that also means the way CARB intended.

d

boost247

iTrader: (9)

I would argue that a CEL that illuminates and is then cleared is, in fact, working the way the manufacturer intended. By clearing the CEL, you're not tampering with or disabling the equipment, you're working within the OEM system to allow for the replacement of a specifically authorized part. I think that's my biggest problem: the rules clearly state that any catalytic converter is allowed, when apparently the replacement of the catalytic converter can directly result in something that renders the car illegal. That doesn't seem to me like any catalytic converter is really allowed.

CDeutsch

iTrader: (5)

This has already been hashed out 2 years ago (using these and many other arguments). If your car constantly throws an emissions related CEL during competition or road use it's not legal If it does it once and you clear it and it stays off you're fine, but it better stay off.

Most of the below statement was added 2 years ago after my co-driver protested our own car at a MidDiv to get Doug Gills attention. The horse is dead.

Loser

iTrader: (9)

But... it... has... electrolytes...

Next week, we discuss the origins of the chicken... or is it the egg?

boost247

iTrader: (9)

Gotcha. Thank you.

CDeutsch

iTrader: (5)

If you're an SCCA member You can always write a let to the seb@scca.com if you want changes, but the ship may have sailed on this one unfortunately (at least for now).

If you write one, I would focus on getting rid of the emission rule for ??? reason(s), etc.

DaWorstPlaya

iTrader: (31)

I was there when you guys did that, it was hilarious. Most of the guys in STU were cool and wouldn't have protested each other any ways. I happened to meet Dave (Silencer) at that event. Obviously I didn't get a chance to meet you guys then.

But as Chris mentioned, that horse is long dead. It was beaten, clubbed, stabbed, shot, disected and finally buried. On the other hand I heard a rumor that R-comp tires may be going away from stock class. Anyone hear anything similar? Any truth to this?

Silencer

iTrader: (4)

In general, Boost247 is on the right track (IMHO). The manufacturer's emissions monitoring system/equipment must be operational regardless if aftermarket legal replacement parts have been installed. If this latest "general" O2 funtion testing at Nationals is any indication of what we might see in the future, it might not be as bad as people make it out to be. However, throwing an emmisions related cell anytime from the start of competition until release of impound (including tech inspection), will possibly render you illegal. Clearing a cell manually or by the ECU itself should be fine prior to competition. If I'm not mistaken, the ECU bypasses the O2 sensors data at WOT (open-loop) when configuring AFR. So, just stay on the throttle

Note: Take this with a grain of salt considering the most recent wing and bumper protest results. You never know what they're thinking.

Dave

Butt Dyno

iTrader: (10)

Good luck!
http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/302986.aspx