2009 STU Discussion
Jan 22, 2009, 09:38 AM
#107
. . .
In sports car/road racing applications you rarely see speeds over 5 inches per second so you want to see those higher forces at the slower speeds. Most turns generate under 2 inches per second. So those Ohlins generate almost no force in a turn when fully opened (purple and blue traces) and a good amount in the upper settings. The first 3 clicks provide almost no damping force at these piston speeds.
I'm working on a white paper on this mainly around sub $1000 kits and how their 40 click adjustments do almost nothing along with why they brag about having seperate ride height and pre load adjusters. We were able to dyno some kits this week and we shot some video and documented all of it. It was a learning experience for sure.
. . .
In sports car/road racing applications you rarely see speeds over 5 inches per second so you want to see those higher forces at the slower speeds. Most turns generate under 2 inches per second. So those Ohlins generate almost no force in a turn when fully opened (purple and blue traces) and a good amount in the upper settings. The first 3 clicks provide almost no damping force at these piston speeds.
I'm working on a white paper on this mainly around sub $1000 kits and how their 40 click adjustments do almost nothing along with why they brag about having seperate ride height and pre load adjusters. We were able to dyno some kits this week and we shot some video and documented all of it. It was a learning experience for sure.
. . .
I would REALLY like to read the results of your research.
EVOlutionary
Last edited by EVOlutionary; Jan 22, 2009 at 09:54 AM.
Jan 22, 2009, 09:38 AM
#108
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Depending on the car, the cost of competitive tires is getting very close to being a wash between ST and any other class (shaved street tires vs. race tires), and I can only see the future models as being more and more expensive. This is compounded by the fact that it's pretty much impossible to police tread depth, so there's nothing stopping anyone with enough money to shave a set of street tires down to 1/32nd, use them for one or two events, and then pitch them and buy new ones.
It sucks, but that's the way it goes. ST is one of the cheapest classes to prep for otherwise (Civic, CRX, Miata) and because of that, it's very easy to get into and be competitive in. And because it IS so popular and competitive, you will always have people building to rules and looking for the next new thing to give them that bit of an edge. If the rest of us want to keep up, we have to follow suit.
Jan 22, 2009, 11:25 AM
#109
Good points. Its also interesting to see STU cars catching and beating BSP cars on a regular basis. To me the ST tires and getting to or are as fast as already some Rs on the market now. And with the '09 tires, it really looks like the ST tires are catching up to and will surprise most Rs, obviously once the ST tires are shaved.
One tire that has caught my eye, aside from the ADO8s and the 'Stones is the new Nitto NTO5. Looking at the tread pattern the tire really looks like a R compound disguised by tread, meaning once its shaved down will reveal a R compound tire. If I had the money I'd love to get my hands on a set of ADO8s, the "Stones and the NTO5s to do some testing but, as most people I don't have that much expandable money so I'll probably just hold out to the National dates kick-off and buy wants be proven fast (most likely the AD08s, 'Stones or Z1s) but, contingency programs will also play a role in what I buy.
One tire that has caught my eye, aside from the ADO8s and the 'Stones is the new Nitto NTO5. Looking at the tread pattern the tire really looks like a R compound disguised by tread, meaning once its shaved down will reveal a R compound tire. If I had the money I'd love to get my hands on a set of ADO8s, the "Stones and the NTO5s to do some testing but, as most people I don't have that much expandable money so I'll probably just hold out to the National dates kick-off and buy wants be proven fast (most likely the AD08s, 'Stones or Z1s) but, contingency programs will also play a role in what I buy.
Jan 23, 2009, 08:54 AM
#110
If I had the money I'd love to get my hands on a set of ADO8s, the "Stones and the NTO5s to do some testing but, as most people I don't have that much expandable money
d
Jan 23, 2009, 09:25 AM
#112
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So local ST cars beating R compound cars really doesn't mean much. You have to compare Nationals results and hope they all ran in the same dry conditions to see if the street tires are catching up, which I don't think they really are.
Jan 23, 2009, 09:30 AM
#113
Never happens or gonna happen in these parts! Even index results with the same driver, BSP should be faster this year with the new PAX numbers.
Of course we blow away stripped out, big turbo, carbon fiber fendered track Evos by 3 secs, but that's not a fair comparison.
Rick
Jan 23, 2009, 09:31 PM
#115
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Teh rules! (for quick reference when viewing this thread)
http://scca.com/documents/Solo_Rules...Solo_Rules.pdf
http://scca.com/documents/Solo_Rules...Solo_Rules.pdf
Jan 24, 2009, 11:54 AM
#116
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Just wanted to say - I'm really looking forward to the start of the new season.
Trying to get gear'd up for March! Few more mods (see my signature), a couple of autoX lessons, and see how things go.
Trying to get gear'd up for March! Few more mods (see my signature), a couple of autoX lessons, and see how things go.
Jan 27, 2009, 01:34 PM
#117
That being said, the Nitto NT05 has really caught my eye. The damn thing looks close to their R tire, the NT01, in full tread form. Shaved that sucker may be the sleeper of '09 (much like the Z1 was in '08).
The AD08 and RE-11 are expected to be fast as will the Z1, although no additional development went into the Z1 (at least that I know of or have been able to find). The Kumho XS KU36 is also a contender as is the new Hankook RS3s.
Jan 29, 2009, 09:18 AM
#118
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This is exactly what several people have found with many low-mid priced coilvers from Japan/China/Taiwan. JIC I know for sure. First 10 clicks - no change. Middle few clicks sweep the whole range of adjustment. Last 10 clicks - nothing. . .
I would REALLY like to read the results of your research.
EVOlutionary
I would REALLY like to read the results of your research.
EVOlutionary
NOTE: We did this in one take. I know the difference in reflecting and refracting. And my math in my head is sometimes off.
I didn't feel like redo'ing the whole thing for minor mistakes.
Jan 29, 2009, 11:37 AM
#119
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my plan for 2009... getting my @$$ out there seeing as last year I had a sliggggght restriction (lisc.)
power - whatever I already got
handling - whatever happens to be on the car at the time (maybe stock who knows with BRUTAL no name all season tires haha)
driver mod - getting my lisc. back next month
technique - just gettin in the car, turnin the key and drivin the hell outta this thing!
power - whatever I already got
handling - whatever happens to be on the car at the time (maybe stock who knows with BRUTAL no name all season tires haha)
driver mod - getting my lisc. back next month
technique - just gettin in the car, turnin the key and drivin the hell outta this thing!
Jan 29, 2009, 02:41 PM
#120
some pics of the tires I mounted up this afternoon. I'll be testing this weekend.
http://sccaforums.com/forums/permali...ad.aspx#342913
d
http://sccaforums.com/forums/permali...ad.aspx#342913
d