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Official 2010 Formula One Discussion F1

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Old Mar 16, 2010 | 09:30 PM
  #541  
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correction. Shumacher was pushed out of Ferrari. He didn't want to retire.

Originally Posted by Ryan.Kauz
And I was more hyped up about Hulkenberg. Who had been brought up through the ranks the hard way, and has earned his drive.

Schumacher had his time, and chose to retire. Should have stayed that way.

My prediction of Red Bull running Vettel and the Hulk in 2011 still stands.
Old Mar 17, 2010 | 05:09 AM
  #542  
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Overtaking: Stick shift and hard tires

James Allen had an interview with an F1 aero engineer (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/0...unterargument/), which I think is interesting reading, regarding truths and myths about overtaking.

Bottom Line: he is suggesting two major things be done to increase overtaking and both focus on putting the racer as the limiting factor. Specifically, eliminate the semi auto tranny and return to stick shift AND replace the super soft tires/mix with one tire type, the hard tire. By so doing, it will necessitate greater driving skills and will, under the pressure of the race, create more potential mistakes, especially in the corners, thereby allowing more passing.

I would also allow fueling and unlimited pit stops (no madatory pit stops) which would allow aggressive driving to the limit with the deficit of pit stops. Additionally, fix the aero specs to prevent this constant fidling so that all the cars are basically the same and all the teams can focus on reliability; it is so frustrating to see a car that is fast but fail to finish the race because of some reliability issue.

Just some thoughts on how to fix the current mess.

Later, Ken
Old Mar 17, 2010 | 07:52 AM
  #543  
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Don't really with much of that... but what do I know. Refueling and one tire I could see, but not nec the hard tire. I don't want a tire that will last a race distance, wheres the fun in that...?
Old Mar 17, 2010 | 12:56 PM
  #544  
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A tire that would last the race distance would just lead to a fallow the leader race, with everyone taking car of the tires, with no hope of any leader board changes
Old Mar 17, 2010 | 01:15 PM
  #545  
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yea, 1 set of tires for a race would be aweful.

reverting to manual gearboxes would add about 1.5 seconds per lap, but there is great skill involved in operating one of the gearboxes. As discussed in "racing per Machett" last year, you cant simple paddle the thing like a video game controller. The rev band for engaging the next gear is very small, if your not smooth then the clutch wont last a race distance. Also, getting into motion after a pit stop (which by removing refuling and tire changes wouldnt happen) is dicy business.
Old Mar 17, 2010 | 06:02 PM
  #546  
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Addendum: Conditions for Overtalking

The hard tire is difficult to control at speed going into a corner..spinning out/under or oversteer is likely unless executed perfectly. Also, hitting the corners hard will result in tire degradation even in the hard tire. Since fueling is possible they will not be nursing their car home as is the case now. Rather they will be trying to pass using a lot of fuel to gain position. They would have to do this carefully however, to minimize fuel use and maintain tire wear. Add the manual tranny and, as Ryan has indicated, additional caution and skill will have to be exercised. Also, since there is refueling under this scenario, the lap time will be much faster since they will be carying less fuel/weight rather than the slow slugs the cars are now with 160 kilos of fuel. With higher speeds and passing, there will always be incidences which only the skillful drivers can avoid. In short, what is needed is to optimize the conditions for the drivers skill rather make the cars stick to the road with more down force and sticky tires and slower speeds with the added weight..this takes less skill and that is why they cannot now pass because under these packages they rarely make mistakes so the initial starting grid is more or less maintained throughout the race. This is a pipe dream of course but something radical like this needs to be considered.

Later, Ken
Old Mar 17, 2010 | 11:54 PM
  #547  
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I remember one of the races a few years ago, the clutch that was in kimi's car was almost gone after 2 pit stops and the standing start. The teams would really have to work hard on building something that could handle an entire race.
Old Mar 18, 2010 | 05:34 AM
  #548  
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An Experienced Drivers View of F1 2010

This from Alonso:
"If you start among the top two or three that will be fundamental to win the race, otherwise it is almost impossible,"

"With the old rules you could be fifth or sixth at the start and know you had a chance with the strategy. Now if the strategy is the same and you are fifth or sixth you have very few chances."

"Previously we had to take all of the opportunities to overtake in Formula One, so we know how difficult it is. "

"This year we will have to continue to seize all the opportunities to overtake, and I think that with no refueling and without knowing anything about the strategy, qualifying will be even more important than it used to be."

And yet Bernie says we wait for three or four more races before we revisit the current rules. I was looking forward to Australia but now thinking otherwise...perhaps 2011 season....but 2010 just started....Ugggh. But then there may be a tooth fairy after all. Qualy will be exciting but thereafter....no!

Later, Ken
Old Mar 19, 2010 | 05:42 AM
  #549  
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Odds and Ends

All the talk (e.g., Hamilton) has focused on Ferrari as the team to beat based primarly on their 1&2 win at Bahrain. But the evidence points elsewhere. Specifically, Red Bull, in fact, had better pace and no one was going to catch Vettel baring the spark plug failure. Ferrari definitely had problems in Bahrain. Massa's car overheaded and he could not press Alonso; supposedly there were aero issues that were the cause. Further evidence that Ferrari is concerned are the continued rumors of a B Spec production as well as another super-duper DD extracted from a former member of the defunct Toyota team.

Sponsorship, read bucks, for the small teams is going to be difficult since they will not be winning and getting all the press with associated sponsorships. The Concord agreement comes to the rescue. Any team making the top ten in the constructors championship gets $$ from the FIA. So there will be a scamble for these slots....what two will be out of the $$?...yes it is pretty clear at this point who they are.

Bridgestone may be out for '11' with Michelin a big maybe if conditions are changed...but Kuhmo and another smaller tire company may be in.

The reduction in tire size for the fronts in '10' season was designed to reduce oversteer exhibited in '09' cars. However, now all the teams are struggling with understeer. U would think that all those engineers and tire guys would have figured this out...but maybe I am giving them more credit than they deserve...but I digress...again.

Later, Ken
Old Mar 19, 2010 | 06:10 AM
  #550  
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I disagree. Ferrari are easily the TEAM to beat, and Red Bull has been plagued by reliability issues since last year and obviously have not resolved them. Combine that with everyone driving all conservative to learn the proper strategy, Alonso blazing fast laps at the end of the race, and two top level drivers and it's easy to see why Ferrari are the favorites. The Renault simply isn't consistent enough, and is bound to be well off the pace at a few races this year while also likely running thin on engines as well.

There is no driver lineup that even comes close to the Ferrari pair. Aside from my clear Hamilton bias I have to say that Alonso + Ferrari is looking tough to beat this year. Not to mention that last year Ferrari and McLaren both proved that they are capable of staggering improvement speeds. So by the end of this season it could very well be Ferrari vs McLaren again. Or, at least Ferrari vs Hamilton as Button hasn't proven anything.


If Red Bull had a Mercedes engine I might change that opinion, but even still Vettel seems to have more problems with his car than Webber and Red Bull more problems than other Renault teams. Possible that Newey's on the edge designs are bad for consistency.
Old Mar 19, 2010 | 06:37 AM
  #551  
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Originally Posted by bluestreak
If Red Bull had a Mercedes engine I might change that opinion, but even still Vettel seems to have more problems with his car than Webber and Red Bull more problems than other Renault teams. Possible that Newey's on the edge designs are bad for consistency.
Yeah, with them being the only team with frequent Renault engine problems, I've been wondering if Newey is willing to sacrifice cooling efficiency too much in the hunt for improved aero. Seems possible, since their car is fast as hell, but not particularly reliable.....at least it was last year with Kate and her dirty sister.
Old Mar 19, 2010 | 11:15 AM
  #552  
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Ive got to get one of these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF_dnGVbXkM
Old Mar 19, 2010 | 03:06 PM
  #553  
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Here's some suggestions for improving the 'show':

1. push to pass ... and, no, NOT KERS and definitely nothing that can be used on every lap.
2. scrub the track clean between the final qualifying session and the start of the race. Gets rid of all the clag and the rubbered in portion of the track, which creates less grip, but also less of a difference between online and offline grip.

l8r)
Old Mar 19, 2010 | 03:36 PM
  #554  
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Originally Posted by Ludikraut
Here's some suggestions for improving the 'show':

1. push to pass ... and, no, NOT KERS and definitely nothing that can be used on every lap.
2. scrub the track clean between the final qualifying session and the start of the race. Gets rid of all the clag and the rubbered in portion of the track, which creates less grip, but also less of a difference between online and offline grip.

l8r)
+1 to that. I like both ideas. And with regard to suggestion #2, how about they not only scrub the track clean, but even VHT(or similar) the hell out of the off line portions of corner entry, apex, and exit? That would even the playing field pretty quick for the car on the attack, at least early on in the race before clag builds up on offline, and realistically enable passing on the outside WAY more frequently than we see now.
Old Mar 19, 2010 | 04:54 PM
  #555  
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Originally Posted by GG06MR
Yeah, with them being the only team with frequent Renault engine problems, I've been wondering if Newey is willing to sacrifice cooling efficiency too much in the hunt for improved aero. Seems possible, since their car is fast as hell, but not particularly reliable.....at least it was last year with Kate and her dirty sister.
Clearly the spark plug failure had nothing to do with RB aero package or the Renault engine while Ferrari has admited that Massa overheating was due to some aero piece/design which they are trying to rectify. In short, Ferrari has as much, if not more, of a problem as RB...Melbourne will tell the tale.

Later, Ken


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