Official 2010 Formula One Discussion F1
#571
Weather and Tires: Melbourne
Apparently the weather guys are predicting rain for Qualy with possible showers on Sunday "evening". So be prepared for some "slipin and a slidin" ..not real happy about cars being taken out due to slick/rain track but that's racing.
Recall last year the cars tended to oversteer due to better grip up front relative to rear. So this year Bridgestone and FIA decided to reduce the tire size significantly to compensate for this result. Well, this might have been effective for a single car on the track but apparently for overtaking it has become a real detriment. This from Barricello who blames the front tire size for increasing the difficulty in passing: "You cannot follow, the front of the car washes out. When you grab the throttle back on with lots of lock, you lose the back end so the car in front just goes away. Then you're into saving fuel and the race becomes a bit hard."
Not testing the effects of this tire change under all conditions of the race vis., cornering and following/passing another car appears at first to be rather astounding but...then again not so. Le Mans and Mercedes comes to mind...Merc tested their car at an oval track for 24 hrs prior to Le Mans that year (forget which year) and felt that they were ready for the race. Then, during the race, in the undulating parts of the Moussin straight while drafting another car, their car lost downforce in conjuction with the track undulation and the car became airborne and literally flew/flipped up into the air landing in the adjacent woods. How could a company like Mercedes make such a stupid mistake? Testing UR car under race conditions, all conditions is what is required. Bridgestone and the FIA..asleep at the wheel...again
Later, Ken
Recall last year the cars tended to oversteer due to better grip up front relative to rear. So this year Bridgestone and FIA decided to reduce the tire size significantly to compensate for this result. Well, this might have been effective for a single car on the track but apparently for overtaking it has become a real detriment. This from Barricello who blames the front tire size for increasing the difficulty in passing: "You cannot follow, the front of the car washes out. When you grab the throttle back on with lots of lock, you lose the back end so the car in front just goes away. Then you're into saving fuel and the race becomes a bit hard."
Not testing the effects of this tire change under all conditions of the race vis., cornering and following/passing another car appears at first to be rather astounding but...then again not so. Le Mans and Mercedes comes to mind...Merc tested their car at an oval track for 24 hrs prior to Le Mans that year (forget which year) and felt that they were ready for the race. Then, during the race, in the undulating parts of the Moussin straight while drafting another car, their car lost downforce in conjuction with the track undulation and the car became airborne and literally flew/flipped up into the air landing in the adjacent woods. How could a company like Mercedes make such a stupid mistake? Testing UR car under race conditions, all conditions is what is required. Bridgestone and the FIA..asleep at the wheel...again
Later, Ken
#572
Wow, no comments yet...
I just got done watching it, I think in saying it was a lot better then Bore-rain is a major understatement. Thats what all the races should be like... I hope it rains (just a little, not like last year) in Malaysia...
I won't comments on results just in case some of you haven't seen it yet...
I just got done watching it, I think in saying it was a lot better then Bore-rain is a major understatement. Thats what all the races should be like... I hope it rains (just a little, not like last year) in Malaysia...
I won't comments on results just in case some of you haven't seen it yet...
#573
Wow, no comments yet...
I just got done watching it, I think in saying it was a lot better then Bore-rain is a major understatement. Thats what all the races should be like... I hope it rains (just a little, not like last year) in Malaysia...
I won't comments on results just in case some of you haven't seen it yet...
I just got done watching it, I think in saying it was a lot better then Bore-rain is a major understatement. Thats what all the races should be like... I hope it rains (just a little, not like last year) in Malaysia...
I won't comments on results just in case some of you haven't seen it yet...
#574
Melbourne: Tires and Rain
I think Melbourne was a better race than the last because of two things: rain and tire degredation. Specifically, the rain resulted in poor traction and brought a lot of the cars to equal footing which resulted in bunching, traffic with obvious outcomes...contact..lose of parts... damage..crashes. In addition, the Melbourne track is very hard on tires, so graining was a big factor resulting in conflicts between two or one stop strategies. This affected the finishing order significantly. One that stands out is Hamilton but not the way he saw it: "I was in P3 and everyone else didn't stop - but I stopped. I had already stopped once, and my tyres were fine and they would have lasted. Maybe I would have struggled a bit towards the end - but that is what all the other guys did. I was brought in for another stop, even though I would have preferred to stay out, but I didn't question the decision because I trusted that was the right one."
IMHO this statment attempts to overshadow the real problem Hamilton had, namely his hard driving style. He claims that his tires were ok when he came in on his second stop and that he could have made it to the end on the original set. However, this is inconsistent with what happened when he attempted to run through the field with new second set of tires..he radioed in that he had lost these new tires! How could he have made it to the end with the first set if he lost the new ones so early on in this stint? Bottom line: Button, because of his easier driving style relative to tire wear, was able to make it to the end on the single set whereas Hamilton would not have been able to do same despite his claims to the contrary and blaiming poor strategy...poor looser here.
Later, Ken
IMHO this statment attempts to overshadow the real problem Hamilton had, namely his hard driving style. He claims that his tires were ok when he came in on his second stop and that he could have made it to the end on the original set. However, this is inconsistent with what happened when he attempted to run through the field with new second set of tires..he radioed in that he had lost these new tires! How could he have made it to the end with the first set if he lost the new ones so early on in this stint? Bottom line: Button, because of his easier driving style relative to tire wear, was able to make it to the end on the single set whereas Hamilton would not have been able to do same despite his claims to the contrary and blaiming poor strategy...poor looser here.
Later, Ken
#575
Melbourne: Source of Red Bull "Reliability"
Previously, others, herein, have said Red Bull cannot win because they have "reliability issues". And this weekend, Vettel was unable to win this weekend, again, due to a failure to mount the left front tire correctly resulting in brake failure. While it is true, this, as well as last weekend were, in fact, "reliablity issues", they were not associated with the Renault engine which is where all the fingers have been pointing when this issue has been raised regarding Red Bulls challenge for dominance in 2010. So for the record, outsourced parts and pit crew errors, not the Renault engine, have been responsible for Red Bulls (specifically Vettel) inability to win these first two races despite their obvious dominance over the other team cars.
Later, Ken
Addendum: Suggestion that RB has been able to lower car to extreme levels in Qualy thereby getting more downforce and then readjust level under fulll fuel load via gas shocks (another loophole in regulations)...other teams will follow suit to bridge existing speed gap
Later, Ken
Addendum: Suggestion that RB has been able to lower car to extreme levels in Qualy thereby getting more downforce and then readjust level under fulll fuel load via gas shocks (another loophole in regulations)...other teams will follow suit to bridge existing speed gap
Last edited by KPerez; Mar 29, 2010 at 05:41 AM.
#576
Hami is a little cry baby, has been since he came into the sport. Yesterday just further proves that point.
I can't believe the way he was blasting the team over the radio, save it for after the race!
I can't believe the way he was blasting the team over the radio, save it for after the race!
#578
Overall a great race. Nice to see Button win, but I feel bad for Vettel. Red Bull really needs to get their $heot together... Things like a failing spark plug and failed front brake due to an incorrectly mounted wheel sounds to me like a lack of paying attention to details.
l8r)
#579
Originally Posted by Ludikraut
Overall a great race. Nice to see Button win, but I feel bad for Vettel. Red Bull really needs to get their $heot together... Things like a failing spark plug and failed front brake due to an incorrectly mounted wheel sounds to me like a lack of paying attention to details.
l8r)
Hat's off to RBR for being so fast out of the box, I still think every other team is a little behind the ball in terms of outright pace, in terms of the total package(car, drivers, crew, strategy) except for maybe Ferrari.
Scorke
#580
Wow what a race!
I loved to see Hami cry and berate his own team on the intercom, really shows what a poor sport he is in all of this. They took a chance and it didn't pay off. Remember he was saying that the tires had went away before the second stop.
I feel so bad for SV, he should have had 2 wins but Racing is a cruel mistress.
Why is it that this race is always so hard on cars? More cars go out at this race then any other gp.
Alonso had to have been the star of the day. He moved through the entire field amazingly quick.
I loved to see Hami cry and berate his own team on the intercom, really shows what a poor sport he is in all of this. They took a chance and it didn't pay off. Remember he was saying that the tires had went away before the second stop.
I feel so bad for SV, he should have had 2 wins but Racing is a cruel mistress.
Why is it that this race is always so hard on cars? More cars go out at this race then any other gp.
Alonso had to have been the star of the day. He moved through the entire field amazingly quick.
#581
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt_PJqM-sRc
If you had Mclaren support since you were this young you would be a whiny lil bish too!!!
Scorke
If you had Mclaren support since you were this young you would be a whiny lil bish too!!!
Scorke
#582
I highly doubt the either of those failures were foreseeable, everything on a F1 car is rehashed 10-15 times before the first car makes it on the grid, I think it's the lack of on track testing that causes the reliability issues. I hear what your saying but in order to be that fast something has to give! To me the front wing failures of Kobayashi are much more troublesome.
Hat's off to RBR for being so fast out of the box, I still think every other team is a little behind the ball in terms of outright pace, in terms of the total package(car, drivers, crew, strategy) except for maybe Ferrari.
Scorke
Hat's off to RBR for being so fast out of the box, I still think every other team is a little behind the ball in terms of outright pace, in terms of the total package(car, drivers, crew, strategy) except for maybe Ferrari.
Scorke
#583
I think it's because Australia is always one of the 1st couple of races in the season, so there's better opportunity for weaknesses in design and/or parts to show themselves.
#584
You have to remember that probably half or more of the failures for Mclaren/Mercedes in those early 2000's were engine failures, something Newey had no control over. Kimi came second in points in 2003 and 2005 so the cars were good enough to almost win the drivers champ...
Scorke
#585
Good thought, but I think if that was the case, Bahrain and or Malaysia would be up there two but they are nowhere close, indicating that it has to do with the track layout and the racing that happens on them!
Scorke