Official 2010 Formula One Discussion F1
May 18, 2010, 11:44 AM
#766
"Ordinarily cars are allowed to race for position after the safety car has gone in once they pass the safety car line – a white line which, at Monaco, is near the pit lane entrance after Rascasse.
Replays showed Schumacher was still behind Alonso at that line, and passed him on the way into Anthony Noghes.
However the regulations suggest that on the last lap of the race if the safety car is brought in, such passes are not allowed, and the drivers must cross the finishing line without passing:
"If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.
Sporting regulations article 40.13" "
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/05/1...er-safety-car/
but this is just to make it more confusing Ross Brawn quoted:
""We were advised before the end of the race that the safety car was coming in," Brawn told the BBC. "There was no instruction that the race was going to finish under the safety car.""
" "We saw the message 'track clear' officially on screen two. So that means the safety car goes in and the race is back on."
"Clearly, had the race leader crashed at the final turn after the safety car had pitted, he would not have won the race. Equally, the opportunistic pass by Schumacher on Alonso should stand. "
Last edited by Robevo RS; May 18, 2010 at 11:47 AM.
May 18, 2010, 11:50 AM
#767
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this FIA is really sucks. They have too much politics going on.
Schumi was absolutely fair and had all the right to pass... He was under GREEN light and even with the line restriction is still clear pass.
This F1 is unreal...
here you can see the clear GREEN light, which we all know what means...
Schumi was absolutely fair and had all the right to pass... He was under GREEN light and even with the line restriction is still clear pass.
This F1 is unreal...
here you can see the clear GREEN light, which we all know what means...
There is a rule regarding this for non-last lap, and a special rule which further, and clearly (as in without confusion or exception) defines what happens if its the last lap.
Furthermore, your argument is based on a light, which is signaled on/off by people who are not incharge of each and every race, nor are those people consistent throughout even a single season, let alone how long the rule regarding passing after a safety car period.
What you should be arguing about is how crummy it is to have inconsistent staffing at events, and you should be screaming bloddy murder at how such a veteran racer as Schumacher could have possibly mis-understood this.
Unless, of course, as he's proven over and over and over again how much of a world class douche bag and cheater he is. Then this was on-par with his personal history.
May 18, 2010, 11:53 AM
#768
"Sorry that you dont know any of the regs. But the rule is clearly and fairly described. Not only that, but the rule is consistant regardless of what lap they are on. There is to be NO passing before the start/finish line."
just look up that rule again. I dont care it was Schumacher or not .
Also in racing everything happens in a split second... the green light is what the racers are looking and the pit crew radio, not a rule book. Also he got a green light from the pit too. As clearly Brawn stated. They all thought the race is on. I hope you know what is the "track clear" screen means... So what Schumacher must do? sit back and relax? Its weird you call him a cheater.
Besides the green light are not individually by free will turned on. So you cant blame the marshals on that. They will not turn it on unless they got a sign for it. They can turn yellow but not green for free will. They could have keep it yellow, if they dont want to have passing cars and no one would pass....
but what ever he got a penalty , and he punished .
just look up that rule again. I dont care it was Schumacher or not .
Also in racing everything happens in a split second... the green light is what the racers are looking and the pit crew radio, not a rule book. Also he got a green light from the pit too. As clearly Brawn stated. They all thought the race is on. I hope you know what is the "track clear" screen means... So what Schumacher must do? sit back and relax? Its weird you call him a cheater.
Besides the green light are not individually by free will turned on. So you cant blame the marshals on that. They will not turn it on unless they got a sign for it. They can turn yellow but not green for free will. They could have keep it yellow, if they dont want to have passing cars and no one would pass....
but what ever he got a penalty , and he punished .
Last edited by Robevo RS; May 18, 2010 at 12:10 PM.
May 18, 2010, 03:49 PM
#769
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"Sorry that you dont know any of the regs. But the rule is clearly and fairly described. Not only that, but the rule is consistant regardless of what lap they are on. There is to be NO passing before the start/finish line."
just look up that rule again. I dont care it was Schumacher or not .
Also in racing everything happens in a split second... the green light is what the racers are looking and the pit crew radio, not a rule book. Also he got a green light from the pit too. As clearly Brawn stated. They all thought the race is on. I hope you know what is the "track clear" screen means... So what Schumacher must do? sit back and relax? Its weird you call him a cheater.
Besides the green light are not individually by free will turned on. So you cant blame the marshals on that. They will not turn it on unless they got a sign for it. They can turn yellow but not green for free will. They could have keep it yellow, if they dont want to have passing cars and no one would pass....
but what ever he got a penalty , and he punished .
just look up that rule again. I dont care it was Schumacher or not .
Also in racing everything happens in a split second... the green light is what the racers are looking and the pit crew radio, not a rule book. Also he got a green light from the pit too. As clearly Brawn stated. They all thought the race is on. I hope you know what is the "track clear" screen means... So what Schumacher must do? sit back and relax? Its weird you call him a cheater.
Besides the green light are not individually by free will turned on. So you cant blame the marshals on that. They will not turn it on unless they got a sign for it. They can turn yellow but not green for free will. They could have keep it yellow, if they dont want to have passing cars and no one would pass....
but what ever he got a penalty , and he punished .
Later, Ken
May 18, 2010, 04:46 PM
#770
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I'm with Rob on the Schumacher pass. I just watched it again on a YouTube video, and Schumacher does exactly what I would have done if I was faced with a Green and clear Track. He did not pass before the safety car line, and as the new rule for this year states "you can race between safety car line one and the start/finish line", which is exactly what Schumacher did.
Unfortunately for everyone involved, the track officials, by sending a track clear message along with turning the lights green, sent a very contradictory message to what the rulebook states about a race finishing under the safety car. IMO, if they were going to penalize Schumacher, it should have been simply to move him back into 7th place. Quite frankly, the fact that Alonso got snookered like that shows that he was asleep at the wheel to begin with.
Which brings me to another point. F1 has become a little too nice for my liking over the past few years. I still think the reason Massa lost the 2008 championship was because he let Hamilton pass him at Hockenheim. I clearly remember thinking "WTF is he doing, letting Hamilton pass him on the outside??? Punt him off the track!" If he'd have crashed him off the track he'd have won the title by one point instead of losing it by one. And look at how Hamilton gets criticized these days if the drives "too aggressive". WTH?!? It's what he's supposed to do. Bah!!
l8r)
Unfortunately for everyone involved, the track officials, by sending a track clear message along with turning the lights green, sent a very contradictory message to what the rulebook states about a race finishing under the safety car. IMO, if they were going to penalize Schumacher, it should have been simply to move him back into 7th place. Quite frankly, the fact that Alonso got snookered like that shows that he was asleep at the wheel to begin with.
Which brings me to another point. F1 has become a little too nice for my liking over the past few years. I still think the reason Massa lost the 2008 championship was because he let Hamilton pass him at Hockenheim. I clearly remember thinking "WTF is he doing, letting Hamilton pass him on the outside??? Punt him off the track!" If he'd have crashed him off the track he'd have won the title by one point instead of losing it by one. And look at how Hamilton gets criticized these days if the drives "too aggressive". WTH?!? It's what he's supposed to do. Bah!!
l8r)
May 20, 2010, 03:46 AM
#771
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Monaco: Addendum
With regards to Schumi "incident", the FIA has now said:
"The problems identified during the final lap of the Monaco Grand Prix, counting for the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship, showed a lack of clarity in the application of the rule prohibiting overtaking behind the Safety Car,...
"Adjustments to the regulations are necessary to clarify the procedure that cars must meet when the last lap is controlled by the Safety Car whilst also ensuring that the signaling for teams and drivers is made more clear.
"These adjustments will help to avoid the problem which occurred during the Monaco Grand Prix from happening in the future.
"The Formula One Commission, upon a proposal of the F1 Sporting Working Group will submit an amendment to the Sporting Regulations to address this issue. These amendments will be considered by the World Motor Sport Council at its next meeting in Geneva on June 23."
And despite the obvious infraction of the rules by Barrichello, the stewards said they "were to busy" looking into Schumi's pass to investigate Rubins temper tantrum. I am confused here. Could the stewards not look at this incident, which happened well before Schumi's infraction, and pass judgement? Does this mean only a single infraction depending on the particular driver and situation is to be investigated for each race? This clearly demonstrates a serious shortcoming in the FIA's ability to monitor and control the conditions and drivers on race day.
Later, Ken
"The problems identified during the final lap of the Monaco Grand Prix, counting for the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship, showed a lack of clarity in the application of the rule prohibiting overtaking behind the Safety Car,...
"Adjustments to the regulations are necessary to clarify the procedure that cars must meet when the last lap is controlled by the Safety Car whilst also ensuring that the signaling for teams and drivers is made more clear.
"These adjustments will help to avoid the problem which occurred during the Monaco Grand Prix from happening in the future.
"The Formula One Commission, upon a proposal of the F1 Sporting Working Group will submit an amendment to the Sporting Regulations to address this issue. These amendments will be considered by the World Motor Sport Council at its next meeting in Geneva on June 23."
And despite the obvious infraction of the rules by Barrichello, the stewards said they "were to busy" looking into Schumi's pass to investigate Rubins temper tantrum. I am confused here. Could the stewards not look at this incident, which happened well before Schumi's infraction, and pass judgement? Does this mean only a single infraction depending on the particular driver and situation is to be investigated for each race? This clearly demonstrates a serious shortcoming in the FIA's ability to monitor and control the conditions and drivers on race day.
Later, Ken
May 20, 2010, 04:01 AM
#772
With regards to Schumi "incident", the FIA has now said:
"The problems identified during the final lap of the Monaco Grand Prix, counting for the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship, showed a lack of clarity in the application of the rule prohibiting overtaking behind the Safety Car,...
"Adjustments to the regulations are necessary to clarify the procedure that cars must meet when the last lap is controlled by the Safety Car whilst also ensuring that the signaling for teams and drivers is made more clear.
"These adjustments will help to avoid the problem which occurred during the Monaco Grand Prix from happening in the future.
"The Formula One Commission, upon a proposal of the F1 Sporting Working Group will submit an amendment to the Sporting Regulations to address this issue. These amendments will be considered by the World Motor Sport Council at its next meeting in Geneva on June 23."
And despite the obvious infraction of the rules by Barrichello, the stewards said they "were to busy" looking into Schumi's pass to investigate Rubins temper tantrum. I am confused here. Could the stewards not look at this incident, which happened well before Schumi's infraction, and pass judgement? Does this mean only a single infraction depending on the particular driver and situation is to be investigated for each race? This clearly demonstrates a serious shortcoming in the FIA's ability to monitor and control the conditions and drivers on race day.
Later, Ken
"The problems identified during the final lap of the Monaco Grand Prix, counting for the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship, showed a lack of clarity in the application of the rule prohibiting overtaking behind the Safety Car,...
"Adjustments to the regulations are necessary to clarify the procedure that cars must meet when the last lap is controlled by the Safety Car whilst also ensuring that the signaling for teams and drivers is made more clear.
"These adjustments will help to avoid the problem which occurred during the Monaco Grand Prix from happening in the future.
"The Formula One Commission, upon a proposal of the F1 Sporting Working Group will submit an amendment to the Sporting Regulations to address this issue. These amendments will be considered by the World Motor Sport Council at its next meeting in Geneva on June 23."
And despite the obvious infraction of the rules by Barrichello, the stewards said they "were to busy" looking into Schumi's pass to investigate Rubins temper tantrum. I am confused here. Could the stewards not look at this incident, which happened well before Schumi's infraction, and pass judgement? Does this mean only a single infraction depending on the particular driver and situation is to be investigated for each race? This clearly demonstrates a serious shortcoming in the FIA's ability to monitor and control the conditions and drivers on race day.
Later, Ken
Rob
May 20, 2010, 04:05 AM
#773
but on the other note , what you guys think about the duct they forgot to take out of Barichello car LOl
Thats a boomer. Also he did get penalty he tossed the steering wheel under another car endangering other racers and cars? Also the rules clearly states the steering wheel must be put back in the car BEFORE they move it out form the track. And there is a penalty just for that alone...
Thats a boomer. Also he did get penalty he tossed the steering wheel under another car endangering other racers and cars? Also the rules clearly states the steering wheel must be put back in the car BEFORE they move it out form the track. And there is a penalty just for that alone...
May 20, 2010, 07:42 AM
#774
but on the other note , what you guys think about the duct they forgot to take out of Barichello car LOlThats a boomer. Also he did get penalty he tossed the steering wheel under another car endangering other racers and cars? Also the rules clearly states the steering wheel must be put back in the car BEFORE they move it out form the track. And there is a penalty just for that alone...
May 20, 2010, 08:54 AM
#775
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Yeah, Button's issue was EPIC fail by McLaren. Also interesting to see that RB found an issue with Vettel's chassis after Monaco and will give him a brand new one for Turkey.
l8r)
l8r)
May 20, 2010, 10:51 AM
#778
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Many teams have come and gone while arguing about this bias. but at the end of the day its a rich-mans game and those with the $$$ hold the power.
Gradually as Grand supremo Bernie costs the teams money through his "fair" (joke) negotiations they will force power away from him or abandon the series altogether.
it is my opinion that what is happening is that the ballance of power is shifting back towards the teams and away from the FIA (AKA commercial rights holder Bernie) which is causing the conflict.
May 20, 2010, 11:40 AM
#780
Not sure how many years you've been following F1, but this DOOMED and BIASED opinion has been firmly and clearly in Ferrari/Schumacher's favor for about 10 years.
Many teams have come and gone while arguing about this bias. but at the end of the day its a rich-mans game and those with the $$$ hold the power.
Gradually as Grand supremo Bernie costs the teams money through his "fair" (joke) negotiations they will force power away from him or abandon the series altogether.
it is my opinion that what is happening is that the ballance of power is shifting back towards the teams and away from the FIA (AKA commercial rights holder Bernie) which is causing the conflict.
Many teams have come and gone while arguing about this bias. but at the end of the day its a rich-mans game and those with the $$$ hold the power.
Gradually as Grand supremo Bernie costs the teams money through his "fair" (joke) negotiations they will force power away from him or abandon the series altogether.
it is my opinion that what is happening is that the ballance of power is shifting back towards the teams and away from the FIA (AKA commercial rights holder Bernie) which is causing the conflict.
Also the rich mans game mentality is pushing the WRC to the ditch.... You cant forget the regular people. End of the day they are the one's who sponsor the racing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbfaOMjOYtc
Last edited by Robevo RS; May 20, 2010 at 02:47 PM.