Official 2010 Formula One Discussion F1
Nov 9, 2010, 12:57 PM
#1336
Multiple reasons that I can think of, but most likely to keep their young superstar happy and looking forward to driving at RBR for many more years to come. Lets be honest, whether they say it or not, Vettel is their #1 driver and future of that team, so they're not going to hinder his chances of winning the WDC until they absolutely have no other choice. Like I said, they're not going to tell Vettel to let Webber go by until Vettel has no statistical chance of winning the WDC. Until then, go get 'em kid. We believe in you. 
Did you see the race at Monza? Your telling me that wasn't team orders? (I realize Vettel passed him in the end due to when he stopped) Do you really think his engine was dying for that 1 lap?
Nov 9, 2010, 01:19 PM
#1337
Webber had a 28 point lead over Vettel going into Monza, and alot of things have changed since then. Vettel outperforming Webber in each of the last 5 races has earned him a shot at the title, especially after getting robbed of those 25 points in Korea that would have given him a 17 point lead over Alonso going into the last race of the season.
Nov 9, 2010, 02:41 PM
#1338
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In short, if RB had not won the construcotrs in Brazil, Dietrich would not have even brought up teams orders for Abu Dabai since he would need both drivers to finish high in order to secure the constructors, which is his top priority IMHO.
Later, Ken
Last edited by KPerez; Nov 9, 2010 at 02:49 PM.
Nov 9, 2010, 02:59 PM
#1339
I think not...since RB has secured the constructors, only one RB driver is needed to secure the drivers championship at Abu Dabai depending upon Alonso's finish. It is easier to secure same if team orders are given. But to do so would put RB, specifically Dietrich, in the same "racing gutter" as Ferrari which he has roundly condemned. From an owners perspective, RB has already won the more important of the two championships so he deems it is worth the risk of loosing the drivers championship in exchange for the more favorable public relations image of rejecting team orders, i.e., RB has taken the "high road".
Later, Ken
Later, Ken
Nov 9, 2010, 08:03 PM
#1340
^ I am willing to bet that vettel will allow webber by if the running / last lap order is identical to brasil. Vettel has nothing to gain by winning & would be denying webber the championship.......
How would it go down, especially if alonso is right on the tail of webber?.....does vettel just pull over to let him by or will it look like the finish line of a local bracket car race where webber just noses past for the win on the final lap?
regardless, it should be a very exciting finish to a really good season....
How would it go down, especially if alonso is right on the tail of webber?.....does vettel just pull over to let him by or will it look like the finish line of a local bracket car race where webber just noses past for the win on the final lap?
regardless, it should be a very exciting finish to a really good season....
And how pissed will Webber be if he ends up losing the championship by the one point he didn't make up in his past race?
Nov 9, 2010, 08:11 PM
#1341
Would be a McLaren taking out a Ferrari... just like in Suzuka 1990.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh1WxQmst2o
Nov 9, 2010, 08:18 PM
#1342
Many of the big car companys have left F1 and Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault R the only ones left that rely primarily on the vast resources of their companys to fund a F1 team. The rest get funding from many sources including the drivers to fund their F1 teams. The latter is the usual case because to have one primary source for funding takes deep pockets...but such an approach to advertising UR name can be risky when the world economy tanks as evidenced by some of the biggest car companys, Honda, Toyota and BMW....yes, yes, Ken we NO all this...get on with it...(yup, I am talking to myself!).
However, the times, they R a changen. Renault is not going to fund an F1 team anymore..rather, they R probably going to sell their interests to Proton (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/164897/...oup_lotus.html ) yeilding some cash BUT, and here is the change, the new name, whatever that is,will be followed by Renault (note: could be Renault even though Proton runs and funds it). The same will occur next year for Lotus and Red Bull...i.e., Lotus Renault and Red Bull Renault. Ghosn, head of Renault and Nissan has decided he will not fund an F1 team directly ..rather Renault will be providing tech assist. in chassis development (nuts and bolts and aero) as well as engine supplier to get their name embedded in the team. Mercedes did this with McLaren until they couldn't take sharing the glory with McLaren and separated with their own team. Renault has chosen the less expensive route to get the same commercial benefit...their name plastered on, not just on one team but many. I wonder if Merc and Ferrari (Cosworth to?) will attempt to do same to Force India & McLaren (really doubt this one) and e.g., Sauber, respectively, for just being the engine supplier?
Later, Ken
However, the times, they R a changen. Renault is not going to fund an F1 team anymore..rather, they R probably going to sell their interests to Proton (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/164897/...oup_lotus.html ) yeilding some cash BUT, and here is the change, the new name, whatever that is,will be followed by Renault (note: could be Renault even though Proton runs and funds it). The same will occur next year for Lotus and Red Bull...i.e., Lotus Renault and Red Bull Renault. Ghosn, head of Renault and Nissan has decided he will not fund an F1 team directly ..rather Renault will be providing tech assist. in chassis development (nuts and bolts and aero) as well as engine supplier to get their name embedded in the team. Mercedes did this with McLaren until they couldn't take sharing the glory with McLaren and separated with their own team. Renault has chosen the less expensive route to get the same commercial benefit...their name plastered on, not just on one team but many. I wonder if Merc and Ferrari (Cosworth to?) will attempt to do same to Force India & McLaren (really doubt this one) and e.g., Sauber, respectively, for just being the engine supplier?
Later, Ken
I really thought Toyota was gonna go this route... but instead they pulled out completely.
Nov 10, 2010, 03:40 AM
#1343
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Really? Mateschitz was even quoted in the link you posted as saying: "We never even thought about it as long as both our drivers remain in the hunt for the championship." Forgive me for reading between the lines, but that sounds like they'll be finding a way to get Webber in the lead if Alonso is close enough that Vettel won't score enough points to win the WDC. I'm thinking they'll go the Ferrari pit-stop strategy route, and Webber will just BARELY beat out Vettel on the pit stop exchange.....assuming Alonso is hot on their heals.
Now his thoughts may be as U suggest and he has given orders to let Weber through if Alonso has a chance of winning.
Regardless this is all speculation and it is impossible to NO what actually is going through his head. Sunday will tell the tale.
Update/Edit: Horner may be expressing Dietrich's thoughts,"Of course if we find ourselves in a situation where, on the last lap, the team and one of our drivers can win the world championship, the drivers will do whatever's necessary to ensure as a team we achieve the best result." and this more indirect team orders from Newey, "Ultimately, if one of the drivers is out if it, then I hope he would be magnanimous enough to help the other."
Later, Ken
Last edited by KPerez; Nov 10, 2010 at 04:08 AM.
Nov 10, 2010, 05:12 AM
#1344
I agree that Dietrich is probably just playing it up for the media. With the amount of money and resources involved in Formula 1... there's no way a team wouldn't do what they need to do in order to win championships.
And I guarantee that if a change of positions is required for one of the Red Bull drivers to become champion... you will see a botched pit stop or somebody will have temporary car troubles.
I don't think it's possible to eliminate team orders as long as it's a team sport. The FIA just doesn't want it to be so blatantly obvious like some of the Ferrari incidents we've seen in the past.
And I guarantee that if a change of positions is required for one of the Red Bull drivers to become champion... you will see a botched pit stop or somebody will have temporary car troubles.
I don't think it's possible to eliminate team orders as long as it's a team sport. The FIA just doesn't want it to be so blatantly obvious like some of the Ferrari incidents we've seen in the past.
Nov 10, 2010, 05:19 AM
#1345
Nov 10, 2010, 05:41 AM
#1346
Update/Edit: Horner may be expressing Dietrich's thoughts,"Of course if we find ourselves in a situation where, on the last lap, the team and one of our drivers can win the world championship, the drivers will do whatever's necessary to ensure as a team we achieve the best result." and this more indirect team orders from Newey, "Ultimately, if one of the drivers is out if it, then I hope he would be magnanimous enough to help the other."
Later, Ken
Later, Ken
Nov 10, 2010, 05:47 AM
#1347
Nov 10, 2010, 10:47 AM
#1349
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^ That reminds me of an idea I had in regards to making the racing weekends more interesting. I'd love to see F1 add a second sprint race to each weekend, for the top 10 cars only, and line them up in a reverse grid, based on the finishing order in the main race, and have them compete for 1/2 points.
l8r)
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Nov 10, 2010, 01:12 PM
#1350
Some quick math for statistical comparison.....
Avg. finish over 18 races:
Alonso = 5.33
Webber = 5.94
Vettel = 6.27
Hamilton = 6.67
If you take out the DNF's for failures and/or wrecks that knocked each of them out of the points, then average finish becomes:
Vettel = 3.00
Hamilton = 3.14
Webber = 3.75
Alonso = 4.41
Regardless of how things end in Abu Dhabi, don't those 2nd set of numbers seem to be a more accurate representation of driver performance so far this season?
Avg. finish over 18 races:
Alonso = 5.33
Webber = 5.94
Vettel = 6.27
Hamilton = 6.67
If you take out the DNF's for failures and/or wrecks that knocked each of them out of the points, then average finish becomes:
Vettel = 3.00
Hamilton = 3.14
Webber = 3.75
Alonso = 4.41
Regardless of how things end in Abu Dhabi, don't those 2nd set of numbers seem to be a more accurate representation of driver performance so far this season?