666_EVO/Evodynamics EVOX 2011 NASA TT-A campaign
Mar 13, 2011, 07:05 PM
#32
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SOOO your harness bar works fine right now, but if the car were to flip the driver could be crushed. With a factory 3 point your body has room to fold over some, but if you're strapped in with a 5 or 6 point your neck is going to get destroyed.
It's fine that the car won't be getting a cage, as many TT cars are street cars like this one. But quite honestly the factory 3 point is safer than a 5 or 6 point with a harness bar.
Mar 14, 2011, 07:32 AM
#33
What are you talking about? TT follows the same tech as HPDE, and HPDE does not require harnesses. You'd see a horrible drop in participation in HPDE if they didn't allow the stock 3 point. Does your region differ from the CCR? I feel like the CCR rules when it comes to tech/safety requirements.
SOOO your harness bar works fine right now, but if the car were to flip the driver could be crushed. With a factory 3 point your body has room to fold over some, but if you're strapped in with a 5 or 6 point your neck is going to get destroyed.
It's fine that the car won't be getting a cage, as many TT cars are street cars like this one. But quite honestly the factory 3 point is safer than a 5 or 6 point with a harness bar.
SOOO your harness bar works fine right now, but if the car were to flip the driver could be crushed. With a factory 3 point your body has room to fold over some, but if you're strapped in with a 5 or 6 point your neck is going to get destroyed.
It's fine that the car won't be getting a cage, as many TT cars are street cars like this one. But quite honestly the factory 3 point is safer than a 5 or 6 point with a harness bar.
Mar 14, 2011, 11:16 AM
#34
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What are you talking about? TT follows the same tech as HPDE, and HPDE does not require harnesses. You'd see a horrible drop in participation in HPDE if they didn't allow the stock 3 point. Does your region differ from the CCR? I feel like the CCR rules when it comes to tech/safety requirements.
SOOO your harness bar works fine right now, but if the car were to flip the driver could be crushed. With a factory 3 point your body has room to fold over some, but if you're strapped in with a 5 or 6 point your neck is going to get destroyed.
It's fine that the car won't be getting a cage, as many TT cars are street cars like this one. But quite honestly the factory 3 point is safer than a 5 or 6 point with a harness bar.
SOOO your harness bar works fine right now, but if the car were to flip the driver could be crushed. With a factory 3 point your body has room to fold over some, but if you're strapped in with a 5 or 6 point your neck is going to get destroyed.
It's fine that the car won't be getting a cage, as many TT cars are street cars like this one. But quite honestly the factory 3 point is safer than a 5 or 6 point with a harness bar.
sorry, my confusion this weekend. i thought richard was told he wasn't allowed to run beause he didn't have a 5/6 point harness, but it was really they said he would have to re-tech to go from hpde to TT.
you are not allowed to run any 4 point belts though anymore. they must be 5/6 point.
on a side note, the 3 point belts are totally worthless in these cars when you start pulling Gees. the 5/6 point belts are essential for driver support, in addition to safety (they wouldn't allow it if it wasn't safe).
show me statistics that unrefutably show that 5/6 point belts are unsafe, and i'm sure you can get NASA to change the rules on that. a thread about a guy running a harness bar in his honda on the street doesn't tell me anything (the guy arguing about the 2.5" .120 steel tubing made me laugh... that would be the one heck of an overbuilt cage). i'll show you the thread about the bolt in mustang cage that punched through the floor and argue that cages aren't safe either
we follow the rules for the class, if something aids in driver support, and safety, then we will use it. if it specifically calls out no harnesses unless you have a cage, then we will follow the rules.
Mar 14, 2011, 11:53 AM
#35
sorry, my confusion this weekend. i thought richard was told he wasn't allowed to run beause he didn't have a 5/6 point harness, but it was really they said he would have to re-tech to go from hpde to TT.
you are not allowed to run any 4 point belts though anymore. they must be 5/6 point.
on a side note, the 3 point belts are totally worthless in these cars when you start pulling Gees. the 5/6 point belts are essential for driver support, in addition to safety (they wouldn't allow it if it wasn't safe).
show me statistics that unrefutably show that 5/6 point belts are unsafe, and i'm sure you can get NASA to change the rules on that. a thread about a guy running a harness bar in his honda on the street doesn't tell me anything (the guy arguing about the 2.5" .120 steel tubing made me laugh... that would be the one heck of an overbuilt cage). i'll show you the thread about the bolt in mustang cage that punched through the floor and argue that cages aren't safe either we follow the rules for the class, if something aids in driver support, and safety, then we will use it. if it specifically calls out no harnesses unless you have a cage, then we will follow the rules.
you are not allowed to run any 4 point belts though anymore. they must be 5/6 point.
on a side note, the 3 point belts are totally worthless in these cars when you start pulling Gees. the 5/6 point belts are essential for driver support, in addition to safety (they wouldn't allow it if it wasn't safe).
show me statistics that unrefutably show that 5/6 point belts are unsafe, and i'm sure you can get NASA to change the rules on that. a thread about a guy running a harness bar in his honda on the street doesn't tell me anything (the guy arguing about the 2.5" .120 steel tubing made me laugh... that would be the one heck of an overbuilt cage). i'll show you the thread about the bolt in mustang cage that punched through the floor and argue that cages aren't safe either
we follow the rules for the class, if something aids in driver support, and safety, then we will use it. if it specifically calls out no harnesses unless you have a cage, then we will follow the rules.Although I agree on the 4-5-6 point harnesses , if the got the right install they are safe.
When the roof comes down that far usually, you going up towards to it anyway so your body wont bend away or crumble away from the impact. Please tell me, how any one can do it otherwise?
So , still at least 4- 5-6-7 will hold you little bit more down stable away from the impact. Also how many times, the only arguable for some : roll over happens vs the side front etc impacts without roll over? And for sure there is 0 argument about the safety benefits vs the factory ones...
I never agreed with that argument, and i never will . The 3 point can not compete the more serious seat belts , unless you want to take out something from your glove box. Also it is more comfortable . That is all about it.
Schrot makes a perfect weekend warrior 3 point seat belt. which works as a 4 point and designed for DD in mind also track days works like a racing seat belt. Best alternative out there . and no need bars etc.
http://www.schrothracing.com/store/T...autocontrol-II
this one i recommend guys like you. You will never regret this one.
Last edited by Robevo RS; Mar 14, 2011 at 12:00 PM.
Mar 17, 2011, 07:23 AM
#36
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Congrats to Josh and Jim This weekend. Josh placed 3rd both days ( i had originally posted 2nd for the saturday race, but there was some confusion apparently, and it was 3rd).
he won two hoosier contingency tires over the weekend, which is a big step forward from the first race. on sunday joshs times were 1.018s short of the winning BMW M3 on the MSRC 3.1 mile course. lap times in the 2:24 range. on saturday he was .9s short of the winning time which was a mustang. both the mustang driver and M3 drivers are national level competitors who will also be at mid ohio.
Jim placed 5th on saturday a few seconds back from the leader, and on sunday he corded his NT-01s after the first session and we didn't have a suitable spare set so his day ended.
these photos were all from Brandon Lajoies facebook page, so big thanks to him for being there with his super camera skills. the crappy ones of josh above were from my camera
also, Richard was out there on saturday and got signed off for NASA TT as well:
and our buddy Chris in his STi made it to HPDE 4 :
Matthew (mrmtb) was out there saturday as well, but i couldn't find any pictures. he went from HPDE 1 to HPDE 3 in one session we told him he should have started in 3-4 because hes very experienced, but he wanted to take the "official" path of 1-2-3-4-TT.
he won two hoosier contingency tires over the weekend, which is a big step forward from the first race. on sunday joshs times were 1.018s short of the winning BMW M3 on the MSRC 3.1 mile course. lap times in the 2:24 range. on saturday he was .9s short of the winning time which was a mustang. both the mustang driver and M3 drivers are national level competitors who will also be at mid ohio.
Jim placed 5th on saturday a few seconds back from the leader, and on sunday he corded his NT-01s after the first session and we didn't have a suitable spare set so his day ended.
these photos were all from Brandon Lajoies facebook page, so big thanks to him for being there with his super camera skills. the crappy ones of josh above were from my camera
also, Richard was out there on saturday and got signed off for NASA TT as well:
and our buddy Chris in his STi made it to HPDE 4 :
Matthew (mrmtb) was out there saturday as well, but i couldn't find any pictures. he went from HPDE 1 to HPDE 3 in one session
we told him he should have started in 3-4 because hes very experienced, but he wanted to take the "official" path of 1-2-3-4-TT.
Mar 17, 2011, 08:07 AM
#37
Good work guys, movin on up! I've finally found the limit of grip/understeer in my car so i'm getting the diff done soon. Managed a 5th/4th finish to national winning drivers, I was getting faster as the tires 15+ cycle were getting slower lol.
Apr 11, 2011, 07:33 AM
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more updates on Joshs car:
we need to reduce the weight further to hit the minimum, so we started with rotating mass.
some DBA 5000 two piece brake rotors:
they weigh 3 lbs less each then some new centric one piece rotors i had on the shelf. when we pull the stock rotors off though we will give it a true weigh delta.
second, josh got a set of lancer headlights to cut apart
here is an evo X headlight:
and here is his lancer headlight after some time with the dremel:
roughly 6lbs 4oz each of weigh savings off the front of the car. total weight reduction for the day is about 18lbs 8oz.
we are going to remove the passenger seat completely and give it a final total minimum weight, and corner balance it again. also, the AMR shocks don't seem to have the spring rates we want, and they need to be revalved if we do get stiffer springs, so we are currently looking at picking up a set of ASTs to solve that problem
we need to reduce the weight further to hit the minimum, so we started with rotating mass.
some DBA 5000 two piece brake rotors:
they weigh 3 lbs less each then some new centric one piece rotors i had on the shelf. when we pull the stock rotors off though we will give it a true weigh delta.
second, josh got a set of lancer headlights to cut apart
here is an evo X headlight:
and here is his lancer headlight after some time with the dremel:
roughly 6lbs 4oz each of weigh savings off the front of the car. total weight reduction for the day is about 18lbs 8oz.
we are going to remove the passenger seat completely and give it a final total minimum weight, and corner balance it again. also, the AMR shocks don't seem to have the spring rates we want, and they need to be revalved if we do get stiffer springs, so we are currently looking at picking up a set of ASTs to solve that problem
Apr 12, 2011, 01:05 AM
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Apr 13, 2011, 10:32 AM
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What are you talking about? TT follows the same tech as HPDE, and HPDE does not require harnesses. You'd see a horrible drop in participation in HPDE if they didn't allow the stock 3 point. Does your region differ from the CCR? I feel like the CCR rules when it comes to tech/safety requirements.
SOOO your harness bar works fine right now, but if the car were to flip the driver could be crushed. With a factory 3 point your body has room to fold over some, but if you're strapped in with a 5 or 6 point your neck is going to get destroyed.
It's fine that the car won't be getting a cage, as many TT cars are street cars like this one. But quite honestly the factory 3 point is safer than a 5 or 6 point with a harness bar.
SOOO your harness bar works fine right now, but if the car were to flip the driver could be crushed. With a factory 3 point your body has room to fold over some, but if you're strapped in with a 5 or 6 point your neck is going to get destroyed.
It's fine that the car won't be getting a cage, as many TT cars are street cars like this one. But quite honestly the factory 3 point is safer than a 5 or 6 point with a harness bar.
l8r)
Jun 13, 2011, 11:56 AM
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more updates:
after a mistake with the alignment settings for the texas world speedway event, where the car was completely uncontrollable, we found the mistake a resolved it.
last weekend we went to hallet, OK for the 5th round this season for us. we had made several more adjustments including new shocks, different alignment, and more weight reduction bringing the car to the minumum weight finally.
(my terrible attempt at iphone pictures )
saturday the car was much more planted then at TWS, and the results showed. josh placed 3rd for the day, winning another hoosier. he was .9sec off the track record, and the record holder was racing in TTS that day. the two leaders for the day were corvettes, both driven by excellent drivers.
sunday josh held onto second place until everyone decided to run the last session (it was hot and everyone was tired). josh had improved a little over saturday but we knew we had to make more alignment adjustments and decide what to do with the 3 remaining points he has. regardless, going into the last session, josh had a PnP adaptor for the injectors get lose again (they don't work well), and it went into limp mode. after quickly fixing it, they CMC guys were gridding and wouldn't let him back out. meanwhile the vette reset the track record and moved ahead of josh pushing him to 3rd again. again, good for another tire though.
all in all, it was a good weekend. much improved over last event and we know where to look to get that last .75 second between us and the vettes. our next event will likely be nationals though, along with some practice track time down here to ensure its good to go.
Jim also went out to hallet this weekend with us. Jim has just finished a huge change up in the setup. adding hoosiers from NT01's wider rims, new suspension, whiteline roll center kit, reduced the weight, removed engine mods and retuned it. unfortunately we didn't check the fender clearances before lowering the car with the KW suspension and we have massive tire rubbing issues. after the 1st session we had to raise it 1.5" to get the clearance we needed and we knew the alignment was shot.
regardless, it was jims first time out on the track, with a new setup, so he improved just about every session. knocking almost 3 seconds off his time from saturday to sunday. he finished 4th on sunday, .9seconds behind josh.
after a mistake with the alignment settings for the texas world speedway event, where the car was completely uncontrollable, we found the mistake a resolved it.
last weekend we went to hallet, OK for the 5th round this season for us. we had made several more adjustments including new shocks, different alignment, and more weight reduction bringing the car to the minumum weight finally.
(my terrible attempt at iphone pictures
)saturday the car was much more planted then at TWS, and the results showed. josh placed 3rd for the day, winning another hoosier. he was .9sec off the track record, and the record holder was racing in TTS that day. the two leaders for the day were corvettes, both driven by excellent drivers.
sunday josh held onto second place until everyone decided to run the last session (it was hot and everyone was tired). josh had improved a little over saturday but we knew we had to make more alignment adjustments and decide what to do with the 3 remaining points he has. regardless, going into the last session, josh had a PnP adaptor for the injectors get lose again (they don't work well), and it went into limp mode. after quickly fixing it, they CMC guys were gridding and wouldn't let him back out. meanwhile the vette reset the track record and moved ahead of josh pushing him to 3rd again. again, good for another tire though.
all in all, it was a good weekend. much improved over last event and we know where to look to get that last .75 second between us and the vettes. our next event will likely be nationals though, along with some practice track time down here to ensure its good to go.
Jim also went out to hallet this weekend with us. Jim has just finished a huge change up in the setup. adding hoosiers from NT01's wider rims, new suspension, whiteline roll center kit, reduced the weight, removed engine mods and retuned it. unfortunately we didn't check the fender clearances before lowering the car with the KW suspension and we have massive tire rubbing issues. after the 1st session we had to raise it 1.5" to get the clearance we needed and we knew the alignment was shot.
regardless, it was jims first time out on the track, with a new setup, so he improved just about every session. knocking almost 3 seconds off his time from saturday to sunday. he finished 4th on sunday, .9seconds behind josh.