03chi-town0Z

iTrader: (7)

Hey, so I'm a huge noob and have posted once before, but I still can't find a listing for my car in the 2011 SCCA rulebook and can't get a solid answer from anyone. A formal request hasn't had any response just yet, either, but I'm assuming it's quite busy during the track season and replies are expected to be slow. Anyway...

In stock form it's listed as DStock
In street touring trim it looks like it's classed in STU

My problem is, with what I have on the car, it falls into the Street Prepared category, and I can't find a listing for SP for the 09 Ralliart. Do I just assume to stay within category as stock and run it as SPD or does it change somehow?

Thanks much!

grillpt

iTrader: (24)

If your car falls into a street prepared catagory, then yes, you would be DSP (not SPD). I hope that helps...

MrAWD

I couldn't see any mentioning of the Ralliart in the rule book for any class, so catch all statement from DSP would probably get you in there (as previously stated). But, since there is no specific listing for your car, I would send an email to Scca (probably SEB), and get the definitive answer and possibly explicit inclusion of your car into the rule book. That way this would be set for good and nobody would wonder about this no more!

Fedja

03chi-town0Z

iTrader: (7)

Lol, it was past my bedtime. Thanks.

Thats kind of what I was figuring anyway. After downloading the rulebook and finding no indication of where I'd be, I tried contacting them once but without a reply. I guess I'll try again and that way it could hopefully benefit others looking for the same answer.

MrAWD

I have sent an email to the technical person on the www.scca.com site and suggestion was to send email to SEB and get confirmation from them directly. So, I will do that part too. But, I would recommend at least one more person does the same so we have better change of handling this quickly.

Fedja

03chi-town0Z

iTrader: (7)

sebscca.com is the website for submissions for anyone else looking to get this, or anything else, figured out. Apparently they stopped using the seb@scca e-mail and opted to try this system instead.

Here's what I submitted: SEB Letter Tracking Number #4807:

Hi, after reviewing the 2011 season rulebook, I cannot find an official classification appropriate for my car.

The modifications I have performed have all been directed toward, and thus, place my car in the Street Prepared category. There is no listing, however, for the 09+ Lancer Ralliart in the SP category.

In Stock category, the car is driven under D class.

In Street Tuned category the car appears to be classed in STU.

I'm hoping you can give me proper clasification for the Street Prepared category. I would assume that it would just follow stock suit and race under the DSP class, but we all know where assuming gets us.

Thanks for your time.

MrAWD

Here is my letter:
I have some friends asking questions about where their car should go in Street Prepared category, and I am unable to answer it.The main reason for this is because there is no listing for this car under the Street Prepared listing. Then, the catch all clause from DSP specifies sedans but only 2ED models that are not otherwise classified. These two cars are AWD, so that wouldn't apply, I guess.The car looks like Evolution model, but comes with smaller turbo, lesser suspension, and it doesn't have active rear differential. It weights close to the EVO X model, which is way heavier then other older EVOs (8s and 9s).

Thanks for your time!

letter number #4810

Fedja

MrAWD

Well, I have not received any replies from the SEB, but they just wrote a new proposal which affects both EVOs and Raliarts. EVO X and Raliarts are kept on the same line and they are proposed to be in the new ASP. I guess that is a good and bad news for Raliart guys. Bad that they have the same classing as all of the other EVOs. The good part comes from being on the same line as the EVO X, so update-backdate rule applies in this case for anything that can be exchanged (even the whole engine with turbocharger, suspension parts, or transmission with S-sport mode if that ends up being any better then the original trainy).

So, my guess at this time until this new proposal gets accepted (if so, of course) Raliarts are in the BSP the way things are right now!

Fedja

Iowa999

iTrader: (1)

So, they are moving Evos to ASP, are they? What a shock. I guess little changed in the last five years.

Oh, and Hi Fedja and Hi to Charles when you see him.

- JTMCinder, in a previous life

chrisw

iTrader: (2)

I wrote a letter and suggested ESP for the ralliart. considering the structural differences between the EVO X and the ralliart I thought ESP is a better choice than BSP.

The SEB responded and they are taking it under review right now.

MrAWD

Although I have yet to drive Ralliart in any variation, I do have long experience with DSMs in ESP and I don't think ESP has any chance for such car! 2G DSM is one of the good cars for the class, and in all fairness, I believe Ralliarts are faster then them! I was thinking DSP would be the place for them to be, but being on the same lines as an EVO X, makes some sense as well.

Fedja

03chi-town0Z

iTrader: (7)

Running with the Evo's seems highly unfair, I think anyway. One class below makes a lot more sense.

I just ran this weekend with a couple well put together DSM's and got my *** handed to me. The problem with the Ralliart is the pure bulk of the car, it's just a lot more machine to have to swing around (with tiny OEM brakes and a base-model lancer suspension with slightly stiffer struts to support the extra weight) than a DSM but the updated parts make it a great competitor nonetheless. If I were a better driver I would think that I would have fared much better, but the truth is that I'm pretty awful at this and have a lot to learn.

The X is a beast on the track and the AYC (which the RA doesn't have) alone can be a huge game changer. Not to mention the aluminum suspension bits and upgraded shock/spring combinations which are in no-way compatible with the Ralliart chassis other than the front LCA's.

The Ralliart is, for the most part, a base lancer and only contains the basic engine components of the EvoX with a smaller turbo and FMIC and an AWD system comparable to the simpler CT9A drivetrain; but it weighs in much heavier than the older Evo chassis models. The ralliart also has a more narrow wheelbase and cannot support wheels/tires nearly as wide as the EvoX without major body modification.

NASA currently has the Ralliart base classed in "C", with the Evos all classed in "B", and the DSM's back in E* with points already interpreted into their placement. This seems like a very fair placement and I would love to see the SCCA head in that same direction

MrAWD

The best way to go around this one is to write the letter to the SEB!

With RAs being on the same line as EVO, you could use lots of parts from them. On the top of that, brakes and suspension are unrestricted, so you could improve that tremendously with current rules. It would not be cheap, but nobody said that any SP class is cheap to run at the top!

AYC is still a questionable item on the Xs. Lots of people took that unit straight out of those cars and replaced them with the mechanical unit. The one thing that is extremely important for any kind of racing is ability to know what car is going to do and that action is repeatable. That is what improves the trust and believe that things could be done faster and better. AYC is not something that gives you a lot of repeatability and at this time, I don't see it as the greatest thing on the X. After I get the chance to push it harder for longer period of time and it proves its usefulness, then it might be the part to have. Right now it is not there, at least for me!

The Ralliart is, for the most part, a base lancer and only contains the basic engine components of the EvoX with a smaller turbo and FMIC and an AWD system comparable to the simpler CT9A drivetrain; but it weighs in much heavier than the older Evo chassis models. The ralliart also has a more narrow wheelbase and cannot support wheels/tires nearly as wide as the EvoX without major body modification.[/QUOTE]
Engine and turbos are swappable, while fenders are free to modified to accommodate larger tires. You could even use aluminum fenders from the EVO to save even some weight if they are lighter then those on RAs.

So, again, this proposal has some good and some bad things about it. If you don't like it, write a letter!

Fedja

chrisw

iTrader: (2)

yeah maybe your right, but owners got screwed again, possibly...

the Ralliart got classed in BSP, but it's on the same line as the EVO X so "update/backdate" rules apply.

In a nutshell for the lesser informed, the SCCA has given you the green light to drop in the 4b11 from the evo into your ralliart. This includes all the juicy suspension bits as well. boody expensive to do, but if you don't care about money you can have a competitive BSP ralliart lancer.

It's easier and cheaper just to move on to SM.


Here is a link to the latest fast track...
http://www.scca.com/documents/Fastra...-june-solo.pdf

And all you Evo's are no in BSP, it's now ASP. All these changes are still up for reviews and comments so write the SEB if you dont' like what you see.

03chi-town0Z

iTrader: (7)

The motor is already identical from oil pan to valve cover (not including spark plugs). The only viable power change would be exh. manifold/turbo swapping, that's allowed right?

The only compatible suspension component that the Ralliart can use from the EvoX is the front lower control arms. Everything else is completely different. Brakes are completely incompatible as well.

Also, according to the recommendations in that fast track link, it looks like they're lumping us all into ASP.