EVOs embarrased at X-Games...
Aug 2, 2011, 04:34 AM
#16
Yeah it was pretty depressing watching X Games. Even if Mitsubishi sponsored 2 vehicles to get them in better competition they'd be more marketable. The other problem I see if that Subaru, Hyundai, and Ford are all using their newer car models. All the Mitsubishi entries I've seen in X Games or the RallyCross (televised) have been the 8s or 9s. No newer Xs. It's not like you can go to a dealer and buy a 8 or 9.
I'm just wondering how much money it would take to sponsor 2 cars?
I'm just wondering how much money it would take to sponsor 2 cars?
Aug 2, 2011, 04:48 AM
#17
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SCCA national race weekends at Lime Rock Park use to draw over 30,000 spectators back in the 70's. This year I went to the Lime Rock Grand Am pro races, on a sunny Saturday, with less than 10,000 spectators. This with the largest field of Camero's and Mustangs ever! I went to a Chevy dealership and asked if they had a discount on tickets to watch the Camero's race. They asked were are Camero's racing? They had 12 Camero,s on the front lawn for sale and had no idea that the biggest battle was about to happen between Chevy and Ford 1.5 hrs away. I thought the plan was to have dad bring his son to watch the race then the son would say "dad can we buy one?" Monday was for selling cars to race fans, right? No posters in the dealership! No interest in racing? oh yea NASCAR?? So if that is how Chevy is supporting car racing what do you think Mitsubishi is willing to do?
Aug 2, 2011, 11:14 AM
#18
Mitsubishi pulled out of rally because of cost, bottom line. Mitsubishi Motors over the last 10 years has been on the verge of bankruptcy, even now with the partnership of Hyundai shows the direction of the company. It's more of a safe gamble to invest in the iMeiv, hoping it's the next Prius, then invest millions into a racing program in hopes of selling a few cars to a very small, select market. We'll see where Ford is on their investment after 5 years, when people aren't buying their econofiestas, they'll pack their bags up too.
Aug 2, 2011, 11:20 AM
#19
Real Quick.
Burke and Van Way did well I thought. I was happy to see them. Burkes car also looked like it could have posed a very good fight if he didn't connect to the wall.
The X Games is great for marketing and gaining interest into the sport but it's not "Rally" just merely a grand SSS and XC circus.
The big names from other sports are good in general for rally if they actually compete in stage rally. Otherwise it makes it look like anyone can run.
The best thing we could ask for is regulations on HP limitations and or classes.
Every year the X games has Rally cars involved is a year that the public gains more interest in rally and we should be grateful for that.
We will not get factory support. I'm fine with that I know where my heart lays. It's with rally, stage rally.
Burke and Van Way did well I thought. I was happy to see them. Burkes car also looked like it could have posed a very good fight if he didn't connect to the wall.
The X Games is great for marketing and gaining interest into the sport but it's not "Rally" just merely a grand SSS and XC circus.
The big names from other sports are good in general for rally if they actually compete in stage rally. Otherwise it makes it look like anyone can run.
The best thing we could ask for is regulations on HP limitations and or classes.
Every year the X games has Rally cars involved is a year that the public gains more interest in rally and we should be grateful for that.
We will not get factory support. I'm fine with that I know where my heart lays. It's with rally, stage rally.
Aug 2, 2011, 11:35 AM
#20
staying on topic. Xgames is a US version of rally cross. I personally cant believe so much brain and money in the USA, and this is a lay out for a track they can come up with. That is number one.
the mitsubishi side of the story is very simple. The evo has nothing to do with those type of courses. The evo is way too big and heavy for a tight narrow short tracks. There is no amount of money will beat the 600 whp + Fiestas - Citroen's and the Hyundai's. They are perfect for that type of track racing, I would even say the design of that track looked like they designed for a Fiesta size of cars in mind.
As long as they have tracks like that in the Xgames, evo would not stand a chance period. No matter how and who would sponsor it.
the mitsubishi side of the story is very simple. The evo has nothing to do with those type of courses. The evo is way too big and heavy for a tight narrow short tracks. There is no amount of money will beat the 600 whp + Fiestas - Citroen's and the Hyundai's. They are perfect for that type of track racing, I would even say the design of that track looked like they designed for a Fiesta size of cars in mind.
As long as they have tracks like that in the Xgames, evo would not stand a chance period. No matter how and who would sponsor it.
Aug 2, 2011, 11:48 AM
#21
Subaru - has ALWAYS been big into Rally and its no big surprise to see the trend continue. In fact, Subaru will be the first to admit that their Rally Program is the single biggest contributor to their success in the United States.
They have been in bed with Rallying in the US since the SCCA days. For years, the rule book has been written to cater to the Impreza's weaknesses, allowing certain options that allow for Impreza modifications while disallowing the same for EVOs. Ask anyone that's been around Stage Rally for any time.
To their credit though, if you do drive a Subaru and you do suffer from one of their common failures, limp back to the pits and there is a Subaru Factory truck FULL OF PARTS ready and willing to support you with a killer deal on that new tranny, trailing arm or other emergency part to keep you in the race (at a pretty decent price too). You have NEVER been able to say that about Mitsubishi. Never. And that is why MANY Evolution fans drive Subarus.
Beyond the glaring LACK of support, Mitsubishi really REALLY missed the boat by letting Subaru have several years of market singularity in the US before bringing in the more capable Evolution 8 when they could have been shipping cars in since maybe the 5?
Subaru's market lead gave them the capital to redesign the Impreza to compete with the "new" EVO and surely outspend them in Marketing.
But the END of Mitsubishi did not come with their being outspent in marketing and the subsequent pulling of their Motorsports Program... it came from their own finance department.
Honestly, the demise of Mitsubishi Motorsports came directly from a corporate strategy to get as many cars on the road (to compete with Subaru in the States) by aggressive in-house financing that put thousands of new Eclipses on the road in the hands of folks that were not actually financially able to pay for them.
The scheme worked for several years... until the defaults came in. Literally 10s of Thousands of Mitsus were being defaulted on and Mitsubishi was left holding the bill. They took a tremendous loss on that. Every one of those cars, the company lost money on. Alot of money. And where did they cut to recoup that lost revenue? Motorsports.
The same individual that made the call at Mitsubishi also took the exact same road when he revamped a couple of other major manufacturers, cut Motorsports first and then tighten up the financing. Nobody was surprised with the call came at Mitsu to cut racing... it was a proven technique of this guy and really, financially, what choice did they have?
Enter the current decision to "redefine" themselves. Looking at the past history with young, financially unstable buyers that led (through Mitsus own stupidity) to their financial downfall, they are now very publicly declaring their intent to market to a more "mature and financially stable" buying segment. Example: "EVO X - NOT for the Boy Racer, but for the more mature, more demanding driver". The MiEV only proves it further. They are after (read: they NEED) the more stable money. And that is that.
So who else then? Oh yeah... FORD
The Fiesta is an amazing RallyCross car. No question about it. But...
Go out and buy a turbo 4WD Fiesta. Go on. Exactly. Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday doesn't exactly work on this one. You can't buy a Skoda or a Citroen either.
Simple fact is, with the economy and the trend for Americans everywhere to prefer to keep an older car rather than buying a new car (stats & facts show), should the performance aftermarket be recognizing and SEIZING this trend? 4 Cyl performance cars should be RULING the roads in this economy and Mitsubishi should be leading the pack.
Some clever partnerships, co-branding and marketing and Mitsu could be re-building their brand loyalty, market dominance, solidifying their name and not spending one thin dime "risking" new cars to do it. They've got everything they need out there, on the streets and on the tracks RIGHT NOW.
And when the time is right, these brand loyal buyers will buy again.
They have been in bed with Rallying in the US since the SCCA days. For years, the rule book has been written to cater to the Impreza's weaknesses, allowing certain options that allow for Impreza modifications while disallowing the same for EVOs. Ask anyone that's been around Stage Rally for any time.
To their credit though, if you do drive a Subaru and you do suffer from one of their common failures, limp back to the pits and there is a Subaru Factory truck FULL OF PARTS ready and willing to support you with a killer deal on that new tranny, trailing arm or other emergency part to keep you in the race (at a pretty decent price too). You have NEVER been able to say that about Mitsubishi. Never. And that is why MANY Evolution fans drive Subarus.
Beyond the glaring LACK of support, Mitsubishi really REALLY missed the boat by letting Subaru have several years of market singularity in the US before bringing in the more capable Evolution 8 when they could have been shipping cars in since maybe the 5?
Subaru's market lead gave them the capital to redesign the Impreza to compete with the "new" EVO and surely outspend them in Marketing.
But the END of Mitsubishi did not come with their being outspent in marketing and the subsequent pulling of their Motorsports Program... it came from their own finance department.
Honestly, the demise of Mitsubishi Motorsports came directly from a corporate strategy to get as many cars on the road (to compete with Subaru in the States) by aggressive in-house financing that put thousands of new Eclipses on the road in the hands of folks that were not actually financially able to pay for them.
The scheme worked for several years... until the defaults came in. Literally 10s of Thousands of Mitsus were being defaulted on and Mitsubishi was left holding the bill. They took a tremendous loss on that. Every one of those cars, the company lost money on. Alot of money. And where did they cut to recoup that lost revenue? Motorsports.
The same individual that made the call at Mitsubishi also took the exact same road when he revamped a couple of other major manufacturers, cut Motorsports first and then tighten up the financing. Nobody was surprised with the call came at Mitsu to cut racing... it was a proven technique of this guy and really, financially, what choice did they have?
Enter the current decision to "redefine" themselves. Looking at the past history with young, financially unstable buyers that led (through Mitsus own stupidity) to their financial downfall, they are now very publicly declaring their intent to market to a more "mature and financially stable" buying segment. Example: "EVO X - NOT for the Boy Racer, but for the more mature, more demanding driver". The MiEV only proves it further. They are after (read: they NEED) the more stable money. And that is that.
So who else then? Oh yeah... FORD
The Fiesta is an amazing RallyCross car. No question about it. But...
Go out and buy a turbo 4WD Fiesta. Go on. Exactly. Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday doesn't exactly work on this one. You can't buy a Skoda or a Citroen either.
Simple fact is, with the economy and the trend for Americans everywhere to prefer to keep an older car rather than buying a new car (stats & facts show), should the performance aftermarket be recognizing and SEIZING this trend? 4 Cyl performance cars should be RULING the roads in this economy and Mitsubishi should be leading the pack.
Some clever partnerships, co-branding and marketing and Mitsu could be re-building their brand loyalty, market dominance, solidifying their name and not spending one thin dime "risking" new cars to do it. They've got everything they need out there, on the streets and on the tracks RIGHT NOW.
And when the time is right, these brand loyal buyers will buy again.
Aug 2, 2011, 12:09 PM
#22
Subaru - has ALWAYS been big into Rally and its no big surprise to see the trend continue. In fact, Subaru will be the first to admit that their Rally Program is the single biggest contributor to their success in the United States.
They have been in bed with Rallying in the US since the SCCA days. For years, the rule book has been written to cater to the Impreza's weaknesses, allowing certain options that allow for Impreza modifications while disallowing the same for EVOs. Ask anyone that's been around Stage Rally for any time.
To their credit though, if you do drive a Subaru and you do suffer from one of their common failures, limp back to the pits and there is a Subaru Factory truck FULL OF PARTS ready and willing to support you with a killer deal on that new tranny, trailing arm or other emergency part to keep you in the race (at a pretty decent price too). You have NEVER been able to say that about Mitsubishi. Never. And that is why MANY Evolution fans drive Subarus.
Beyond the glaring LACK of support, Mitsubishi really REALLY missed the boat by letting Subaru have several years of market singularity in the US before bringing in the more capable Evolution 8 when they could have been shipping cars in since maybe the 5?
Subaru's market lead gave them the capital to redesign the Impreza to compete with the "new" EVO and surely outspend them in Marketing.
But the END of Mitsubishi did not come with their being outspent in marketing and the subsequent pulling of their Motorsports Program... it came from their own finance department.
Honestly, the demise of Mitsubishi Motorsports came directly from a corporate strategy to get as many cars on the road (to compete with Subaru in the States) by aggressive in-house financing that put thousands of new Eclipses on the road in the hands of folks that were not actually financially able to pay for them.
The scheme worked for several years... until the defaults came in. Literally 10s of Thousands of Mitsus were being defaulted on and Mitsubishi was left holding the bill. They took a tremendous loss on that. Every one of those cars, the company lost money on. Alot of money. And where did they cut to recoup that lost revenue? Motorsports.
The same individual that made the call at Mitsubishi also took the exact same road when he revamped a couple of other major manufacturers, cut Motorsports first and then tighten up the financing. Nobody was surprised with the call came at Mitsu to cut racing... it was a proven technique of this guy and really, financially, what choice did they have?
Enter the current decision to "redefine" themselves. Looking at the past history with young, financially unstable buyers that led (through Mitsus own stupidity) to their financial downfall, they are now very publicly declaring their intent to market to a more "mature and financially stable" buying segment. Example: "EVO X - NOT for the Boy Racer, but for the more mature, more demanding driver". The MiEV only proves it further. They are after (read: they NEED) the more stable money. And that is that.
So who else then? Oh yeah... FORD
The Fiesta is an amazing RallyCross car. No question about it. But...
Go out and buy a turbo 4WD Fiesta. Go on. Exactly. Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday doesn't exactly work on this one. You can't buy a Skoda or a Citroen either.
Simple fact is, with the economy and the trend for Americans everywhere to prefer to keep an older car rather than buying a new car (stats & facts show), should the performance aftermarket be recognizing and SEIZING this trend? 4 Cyl performance cars should be RULING the roads in this economy and Mitsubishi should be leading the pack.
Some clever partnerships, co-branding and marketing and Mitsu could be re-building their brand loyalty, market dominance, solidifying their name and not spending one thin dime "risking" new cars to do it. They've got everything they need out there, on the streets and on the tracks RIGHT NOW.
And when the time is right, these brand loyal buyers will buy again.
They have been in bed with Rallying in the US since the SCCA days. For years, the rule book has been written to cater to the Impreza's weaknesses, allowing certain options that allow for Impreza modifications while disallowing the same for EVOs. Ask anyone that's been around Stage Rally for any time.
To their credit though, if you do drive a Subaru and you do suffer from one of their common failures, limp back to the pits and there is a Subaru Factory truck FULL OF PARTS ready and willing to support you with a killer deal on that new tranny, trailing arm or other emergency part to keep you in the race (at a pretty decent price too). You have NEVER been able to say that about Mitsubishi. Never. And that is why MANY Evolution fans drive Subarus.
Beyond the glaring LACK of support, Mitsubishi really REALLY missed the boat by letting Subaru have several years of market singularity in the US before bringing in the more capable Evolution 8 when they could have been shipping cars in since maybe the 5?
Subaru's market lead gave them the capital to redesign the Impreza to compete with the "new" EVO and surely outspend them in Marketing.
But the END of Mitsubishi did not come with their being outspent in marketing and the subsequent pulling of their Motorsports Program... it came from their own finance department.
Honestly, the demise of Mitsubishi Motorsports came directly from a corporate strategy to get as many cars on the road (to compete with Subaru in the States) by aggressive in-house financing that put thousands of new Eclipses on the road in the hands of folks that were not actually financially able to pay for them.
The scheme worked for several years... until the defaults came in. Literally 10s of Thousands of Mitsus were being defaulted on and Mitsubishi was left holding the bill. They took a tremendous loss on that. Every one of those cars, the company lost money on. Alot of money. And where did they cut to recoup that lost revenue? Motorsports.
The same individual that made the call at Mitsubishi also took the exact same road when he revamped a couple of other major manufacturers, cut Motorsports first and then tighten up the financing. Nobody was surprised with the call came at Mitsu to cut racing... it was a proven technique of this guy and really, financially, what choice did they have?
Enter the current decision to "redefine" themselves. Looking at the past history with young, financially unstable buyers that led (through Mitsus own stupidity) to their financial downfall, they are now very publicly declaring their intent to market to a more "mature and financially stable" buying segment. Example: "EVO X - NOT for the Boy Racer, but for the more mature, more demanding driver". The MiEV only proves it further. They are after (read: they NEED) the more stable money. And that is that.
So who else then? Oh yeah... FORD
The Fiesta is an amazing RallyCross car. No question about it. But...
Go out and buy a turbo 4WD Fiesta. Go on. Exactly. Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday doesn't exactly work on this one. You can't buy a Skoda or a Citroen either.
Simple fact is, with the economy and the trend for Americans everywhere to prefer to keep an older car rather than buying a new car (stats & facts show), should the performance aftermarket be recognizing and SEIZING this trend? 4 Cyl performance cars should be RULING the roads in this economy and Mitsubishi should be leading the pack.
Some clever partnerships, co-branding and marketing and Mitsu could be re-building their brand loyalty, market dominance, solidifying their name and not spending one thin dime "risking" new cars to do it. They've got everything they need out there, on the streets and on the tracks RIGHT NOW.
And when the time is right, these brand loyal buyers will buy again.
Aug 2, 2011, 02:29 PM
#23
For you and others who think its dead because they don't know anything about it/never been one, obviously/, here is some amateur and pro video if these scene's are dead for you, then you must have the most full filling life in racing.
Rob
here is one rally:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtDg4HasLtw
the latest one NEFR:
watch it from 6.20 minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMe41...eature=related
this is a same corner but the other side so you can see people all around in the woods where they let them to stay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnGDt...eature=related
another stage from the blue car/ by RKT Motors - rent a rallycar/ before the crash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVfYC...eature=related
Last edited by Robevo RS; Aug 2, 2011 at 02:50 PM.
Aug 2, 2011, 02:51 PM
#24
I just want to know why you talk like that about rally. Did you ever been at any event, for example Rally America?
For you and others who think its dead because they don't know anything about it/never been one, obviously/, here is one amateur video and watch it from 6.20 minutes. If that scene is dead for you, then you must have the most full filling life in racing.
For you and others who think its dead because they don't know anything about it/never been one, obviously/, here is one amateur video and watch it from 6.20 minutes. If that scene is dead for you, then you must have the most full filling life in racing.
Aug 2, 2011, 02:58 PM
#25
Just because it exists, doesn't mean it isn't dead. It's not popular, most people don't know it goes on around here (Oregon Trail Rally). It's not well advertised, and it's not something people go out of their way to attend like other sports. PIR gets an OK turnout but nothing significant, the rest of the stages are extremely sparse for spectators.
here is the last one i was attend for a quick test/ it was a SCCA event i think something like Pro solo, i dont remember/:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNr_y...el_video_title
But a same time no one would agree with me, being autoX dead> fact it is one of the most popular form in racing in the US by entry numbers, if i am right. So what dead means really? spectator numbers ? factory back up ? tv coverage? That is all exists in the US rally. So it is dead or not? Just because you dont like it or watch it even following it , means dead? Maybe for you , but it is a bold statement to say that , at least.
Also because it is not well advertised its a miracle people actually find the spectator spots never mind they heard about the events. And still there is always people around. Can you imagine if they actually spend money on advertising?
just away people talk about rally in HERE in the motorsport forum is a proof, they talking down something what they dont even really know.
You dont see spectators gathering in rally because they are spread out. They not jammed in one place. That is doesnt mean they are not there or only 500 people watch rally because that is all you see in one corner LOL
Last edited by Robevo RS; Aug 2, 2011 at 03:16 PM.
Aug 2, 2011, 03:10 PM
#27
Just because it exists, doesn't mean it isn't dead. It's not popular, most people don't know it goes on around here (Oregon Trail Rally). It's not well advertised, and it's not something people go out of their way to attend like other sports. PIR gets an OK turnout but nothing significant, the rest of the stages are extremely sparse for spectators.
Aug 2, 2011, 03:11 PM
#28
People complaining that the Evo is too big for them to compete. Then why did the Subaru's do well? It's the same vehicle. In the end, they have way more money and backing. PERIOD.
Well lets not forget the other teams have better drivers even if it's just for these type of events.
Well lets not forget the other teams have better drivers even if it's just for these type of events.
Last edited by metalsaber; Aug 2, 2011 at 03:22 PM.
Aug 2, 2011, 03:22 PM
#29
which point? ALL?
because that would be even more sad you say that.
spread out the RTA - auto X spectators around 120-150 mile overall super stages with 400+ mile rally mileage and i want to see the pictures about the super crowed out there LOL
you guys might like to say that, but rally is not dead. And it is really upsetting that is even a bullet point in the EVo forum.
That is all i have to say here, you guys make me see things differently for sure.
Rob
ps:
"It's not popular, most people don't know it goes on around here "
this is just make no sense for me. If they dont know , how can be not popular, if they dont even know? that is two entirely different thing in my understanding. If they know and its not popular i can get that one. That is almost a same as calling the rally dead , because "they dont know" ?
That was my point about auto X , people know it is there etc but really no one goes to watch, only who is racing there really. Heck they even use racers to work there...
Maybe i am wrong here ...
because that would be even more sad you say that.
spread out the RTA - auto X spectators around 120-150 mile overall super stages with 400+ mile rally mileage and i want to see the pictures about the super crowed out there LOL
you guys might like to say that, but rally is not dead. And it is really upsetting that is even a bullet point in the EVo forum.
That is all i have to say here, you guys make me see things differently for sure.
Rob
ps:
"It's not popular, most people don't know it goes on around here "
this is just make no sense for me. If they dont know , how can be not popular, if they dont even know? that is two entirely different thing in my understanding. If they know and its not popular i can get that one. That is almost a same as calling the rally dead , because "they dont know" ?
That was my point about auto X , people know it is there etc but really no one goes to watch, only who is racing there really. Heck they even use racers to work there...
Maybe i am wrong here ...
Last edited by Robevo RS; Aug 2, 2011 at 03:38 PM.
Aug 2, 2011, 04:12 PM
#30
which point? ALL?
because that would be even more sad you say that.
spread out the RTA - auto X spectators around 120-150 mile overall super stages with 400+ mile rally mileage and i want to see the pictures about the super crowed out there LOL
you guys might like to say that, but rally is not dead. And it is really upsetting that is even a bullet point in the EVo forum.
That is all i have to say here, you guys make me see things differently for sure.
Rob
ps:
"It's not popular, most people don't know it goes on around here "
this is just make no sense for me. If they dont know , how can be not popular, if they dont even know? that is two entirely different thing in my understanding. If they know and its not popular i can get that one. That is almost a same as calling the rally dead , because "they dont know" ?
That was my point about auto X , people know it is there etc but really no one goes to watch, only who is racing there really. Heck they even use racers to work there...
Maybe i am wrong here ...
because that would be even more sad you say that.
spread out the RTA - auto X spectators around 120-150 mile overall super stages with 400+ mile rally mileage and i want to see the pictures about the super crowed out there LOL
you guys might like to say that, but rally is not dead. And it is really upsetting that is even a bullet point in the EVo forum.
That is all i have to say here, you guys make me see things differently for sure.
Rob
ps:
"It's not popular, most people don't know it goes on around here "
this is just make no sense for me. If they dont know , how can be not popular, if they dont even know? that is two entirely different thing in my understanding. If they know and its not popular i can get that one. That is almost a same as calling the rally dead , because "they dont know" ?
That was my point about auto X , people know it is there etc but really no one goes to watch, only who is racing there really. Heck they even use racers to work there...
Maybe i am wrong here ...
Popularity means a great deal of people attend it, are dedicated fans of it. If they don't know about it, they don't have the means to attend. If it was popular people would find ways to find out about the events to attend them.
It is also NOT a televised sport in the US besides X-Games. Very few people are even aware that it goes on here without television running events, it's not going to be seen in the public eye.
Hell even disc golf is a televised sport now days that gets more attention that rally in america.
PIR (the first stage of Oregon Trail) is a clustered area of fans. Maybe 2k spectators showed up this year (for arguably the most marketed stage). That isn't enough to say the sport is popular in the public eye. Oregon has 3 million population, the Northwest even more... to only produce a number like that is quite sad of a turnout.
To compare rally to auto-x isn't fair. Auto-x is even less known about than Rally.
Rally doesn't have the following in America like other sports have. It isn't something Jon Doe keeps up with. Usually it's just motorsports enthusiasts, or something that had a flyer at a local Subaru dealership.
If there was a large demand for Rally there would be a lot more marketing for it.
Compare it to a larger sport such as motocross. They have the means to advertise events because a great deal of Jon Doe spectators come to watch (upwards of 70k people at some events, 40k at Washougal this year). Rally just doesn't have the following to make it popular here.