KevinD

iTrader: (56)

hey Guys,

since this is obviously the most "die-hard" section for racing on here, i wanted to see what you all thought about some ideas i had, as well as maybe other offerings people have related to this.


We want to build custom race cars specific to a class of the customers preference (nothing new, every motorsports shop does this). i had some thoughts to make this a little different then usual though. since most race cars aren't used all that often, would "co-owning" a race car be something people would be interested in? say if we built a fully prepared NASA TTB evo 8, no expensive spared for reliability and safety... i can build a car INCLUDING the car for around 25-40k. this would include things like cage, racing seats, brake rotors, transfercase built, etc etc... since a caged car isn't really "streetable" most people never do it, and then shy away from tracking for safety reasons or not wanting to wreck their daily. say i built a car for 30k for NASA TTB spec, and 3 people were interested in using it for HPDE/autocross/NASA, i could setup a time-share like contract so all three people interested would buy in for 10k rather then fronting all 30k. they use the car as much as they want and conflicting days can be worked out by useage/and how early they signed up for it. there is useage fees to cover regular maintenance of a race car, and my thinking was each owner had their own set of wheels/tires and pads.

would "co-owning" a race car be something people be interested in? i thought about straight up building rental cars, but i can't see people treating it the same way as if they owned it.

obvious things like if it breaks or if someone wrecks it would have to be worked out before anything like this happened, but i see it as a much cheaper path for people to get into racing.

thoughts?

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

Bad idea. You should OWN ONLY your race car, period.

Then you can arrange something on the side , like getting a race partner who let say rent a car from you , but it still will be very iffy...

I think the best way is just accept the fact if you want to race , you need to foot the bill.

Of course this only my opinion, based what I saw before and experienced in decades around racers and racing.

Rob

chu

iTrader: (72)

I think its a bad idea also. The first thing that comes to mind is who will be responsible if something happens to the car. Secondly, how would you go about dividing the timeshare? Wht happens if one guy wants to race the same event as its' co-owner. I think rental is a better idea. I've seen a few companies do rentals, which has worked out well.

fatbastard

iTrader: (21)

if you got three people who couldn't afford to build their own car, what do you do when one of the people wrecks the car and can't afford to repair it?

if you could build a car for such a short amount of money that would be competitive, why wouldn't you just build it for yourself and keep all of issues with a shared car out of the equation? or have a customer do the same?

you could do an arrive and drive, but don't think anyone is going to treat the car like you might... and then you end up with a knackered chassis... arrive and drive works for spec cars and series, but what do you do when your car isn't competitive and your customer is spending competitive money?

if you asking these questions and not sure, you already know the answer... bad idea
if you are doing this because you can't afford to finish your car and think this is a way to get it done... worse idea

off subject, but how can you build a "no expense spared" car for 40k? you would have to spare a lot of expenses to do that... labor time too.

just my two cents,

franz

codgi

iTrader: (22)

^^ he owns his own shop so he would have factored in his labor/profit costs already. On paper this sounds good but like what others have pointed out I can't see this working out long term.

A better option to me (and maybe you already offer this) is to have standard packages for the more popular classes. Then you could buy the parts in bulk and pass those savings unto the customers. Also since you are doing it a lot you'd then save on labor since it would hopefully take less time.

boomn29

iTrader: (47)

Would I co-own a car with a friend - maybe. We've joked about it when old Grand Am (aka Koni Challenge) cars come up for sale. But it'd have to be something like an Enduro car where we shared the seattime pretty much down the middle and thus we could both get a ton of seattime out of it. And an Evo (or any turbo car really) isn't a good Enduro car.

I've priced a lot of rental race cars. (Race not TT). And most come in around $1500-$4000 for various NASA/SCCA events for arrive-n-drive. You then have to factor in your costs for entries, travel, hotel, gear, etc. When figured altogether; nothing is cheap!

The main differences in the price are speed. Spec Miata's are at the low end and faster cars like AI cars are at the higher end. Spec cars also non-adjustable suspension so there's not near as much to fiddle with or shape/change for each specific driver. I know my Evo isn't setup like a lot of the other Evo's around here. For instance how robi sets up a car and chooses rates and alignments is very very different to how my car is setup.
Some people like cars loose - I've found that I do. Others are scared. And at the lower experience levels, most can't just jump in and be comfortable with a car that's foreign to them. Just a lotta factors...

boomn29

iTrader: (47)

Now this could work. I know when I was first hunting brakes and suspension setups I was looking for a packaged setup. I know Girodisc offers a lot of packages that claim to save some $$ in the end.
AMS and Buschur used to be big on the stages for Evo VIII power. Cobb in the Subaru world is big on stages as well.

Personally for me, it's not always the part but who I can trust to install it. Along with their schedule and proximity to me. I've had lots of people offer to work on the car; but there's not many I trust...

--> If KevinD was in my area; I'd look him up given what I've seen him post about preping cars and some passion for the sport!

wingless

iTrader: (15)

I'm by no means any type of authority but I thought it was very common for teams to lease rally cars...?

fatbastard

iTrader: (21)

yes, but not for the meager amounts of money that this thread is implying... grand am teams do the same, but a weekend seat in a competitive car is as much as the buy in portion that it being suggested.

-franz

Bueller

iTrader: (1)

Depends who youre asking. If youre dealing with a bunch of HPDE4/TT new comers, chances are they might turn out to be a major headache for you. People who dont race, or at the very least compete in TT on a serious level, arent really aware let alone used to what sort of financial obligation it actually takes to do any of this. Let me give you a quick example. Before i started competing in TT i was running on RA1s. They were relatively inexpensive and they lasted. Back then i remember talking with track buddies about the TT guys who regularly ran on new Hoosiers/Hankooks. We would say...wow, these guys run on a new set of those tires almost every weekend. Starting with my 2nd season of TT i started going through Hankooks/Hoosiers like they were candy.

As far as co-owning, off the top of my head i only know 2 separate teams that "co-own" a car. One of the teams are good friends of mine. A father and son team. The son races the car in ST2 while his dad competes in TTS. So based off of my experience, people who co-own are typically close, like father/son team, brothers, or close friends. So if youre thinking about setting up a co-own package, id say unless they have the experience, money, and capacity of what theyre getting into, i wouldnt do it.

Other than that, the 2 options i know about are renting and leasing. The pricing on cars im more familiar with are SM, HC, and SRF types of racecars. For renting, people will price them for 1 day events, for the weekend, or for a friday test day plus the weekend. So the pricing will vary between 1-3 day events. The pricing will also depend on the shop and what you want out of the deal. It can vary anywhere from 1k/day up to 3-4k for the weekend. Your other option is to lease a car. That again will depend on the shop. For instance, you can lease a car for half a season, or for the entire season. Pricing will vary depending on lots of factors. You can also setup a "buy-out" option in the event the driver wants to buy the car when his lease is done.

KevinD

iTrader: (56)

rental has crossed my mind as well. i think the pitfalls of dividing up the timeshare would be similair to co-owning a boat or plane which is very common, only difference is there are 8 NASA events here so obviously if everyone wanted to race, they would have to co-drive at the event or split days. NASA does have "team" cars which can have anyone licensed to drive, drive the car. so co-driving a TT car isnt a problem.


i don't think its that the people can't afford it, its that not everyone wants to spend 30-40k on a car that gets driven maybe twice a month at the most (and more like 1 time a month for most). if you can spend half as much for the same car and just share it, maybe it makes the purchase easier.

building a no-expense spared car for less then 40 is actually very easy. especially if you are keeping the car in NASA TTC/TTB/TTA. since a TTC car is essentially totally stock engine/suspension/aero, the only expense becomes the safety equipment, cage, fire system, seat, etc... and since i have been getting rolling chassis' and can build a caged shell and sell it for 10k, you can see how its easy to have a stock evo with safety equipment built for time trials for a reasonable amount of money. i guess if you mean by no expensive spared, as in modify everything so we race in TTU, then yes, its considerably more then 40k.



this sounds like the direction i may go with this. since the general consensus is that shared drives are a bad idea


thanks Nathan, and yea, i will just put together a NASA TT "package" including labor/parts/safety equipment to build someone elses car, or get a shell from me.


talking to the pikes peak guys, apparently it is very common for people overseas to rent rally cars and want to race in the US for events like pikes peak, etc... thats what originally gave me the idea to do a co-owned car.

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

Yes there is rally rental. and usually comes with a service crew, spare parts etc.
But that is a different story. It works like this , rally reams build rally carts for rent. But those cars are not raced by the rally team(usually) they made for rent only for other drivers.
You pay for insurance and so on so froth there + you put down a deductable too , just in case if something happens.

But that is a whole lot differert story. if some one doesn't have a $1OO k + to build a proper rally car, is a good option. Since comes with a service crew and so on so forth with the rent.
You only need your personal. Safety suit - helmet etc. and the codriver.

Rob

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

You can rent an open class rally car here in the usa too. I know the place . Those cars are awesome, and they are capable to win any rally .
It is really boils down to the driver, the car is will not hold you up for sure.

Balrok

iTrader: (15)

Quite a few NASA guys in the SE tried this from the friend angel and quickly involved lawyers and court dates.

codgi

iTrader: (22)

Yep be interesting to see how this works out. I better get a cut for suggesting the idea though j/k.

On the rally rental I know at least where I am from a few folks have done it. A few years ago they rented an 05 Lancer WRC from MML and it came with all the stuff Robevo RS described above. It was quite pricey from what I understand though.