Hey Guys,

So i know there is information shattered across the forum about this, I wanted to start a discussion in a single area that talked about Road Racing and Cages. Id also like to have a bit more information about them as well.


My current autocross set up is 4pt Sparco harnesses, AMS harness bar, Stock Seats. Now advancing to track events SAFTEY is my number 1 priority. I will be upgrading to 5pt or 6pt harnesses and upgrading seats to Sparco pro2000 plus. The question comes down to the cage. I am aware that it is not safe to run buckets without a cage. My question is though where is a good starting point. Are there bolt in cages for the rear that will be safe on the track? or is my only option to have one fabricated.

Not talking about the crappy Cusco bolt ins, I'm looking for a cage thats going to keep me safe incase of roll over. I will be keeping my headliner in and maintaining the rules of SM for SCCA, the car will be driven on the road so a cage up front is not ideal.

Lets hear what you guys have used, what is SAFE and compile the threads that are elsewhere into here.

EvoJoe

 

Your options are limited if you only want the back half. Autopower 4 point bolt is your best bet (or rather most common I suppose). I had one before welding a cage in, but never rolled... so can't tell you if they work .

If you're at the point you need a cage... it may be time to make it a dedicated track car. I wouldn't want to DD a car with a full cage... good way to get hurt and a fat ticket in some states.

 

The step between what you have and a cage is pretty much what I have.

Autopower 4pt rollbar; reinforced at the base. G-Force 6pts reinforced through the floor and a Sparco Halo seat.


Pics:

 

Thanks guys. Thats exactly what i was looking for. Ill take a look into the AutoPower cage.

I do not DD the car, I just drive it to events. No truck or trailer. But I want to be safe in all aspects.

 

I think if properly installed with reinforcement plates etc, the Autopower roll bar can be a good option. However, I would recommend the setup that I have as well. Because my car is still street driven without a helmet I wanted a welded in cage without the front hoop, but designed so I could add the front hoop at a later time. My shop (which fabricates cages for NASA regularly) designed front base plates that can have the front hoop added when I'm ready to take the car off the road. This gives me a 6-point cage with door bars and no halo bars to pop my head on in a street accident. I am extremely happy with the cage design as it dramatically stiffens up the chassis and provides side-impact as well as rollover protection.

 

I see you're trying to maintain your SM classification for autox. I'm not aware of the class allowing cages. Doesn't that put you in XP?

 

Post up some pictures of it. Id be interested in seeing it. Not sure I'm ready to go the route of a weld in cage just yet but it sounds like a good option intermediate option.

 

As per the Street Prepared Rules:

J. Rollover structures
1. Roll bars must comply with Section 13.2.H in Stock category. 2. Roll cages must comply with the following:
a. The roll cage need not be removable. It shall be bolted or weld- ed to the car.
b. The cage shall attach to the car at no more than 8 points, con- sisting of the basic cage with 6 attachment points, and 2 ad- ditional optional braces.
c. The forward part of the cage shall be mounted to the floor of the vehicle. If used, the 2 optional braces referred to in (2) shall be mounted, one on either side, from the forward section of the cage to the firewall or front fender wells. No braces shall pass through the front firewall.
d. Roll cages that utilize NASCAR-style door bars that protrude into the door cavity must comply with the GCR roll cage re- quirements for production-based cars.
Installation of roll cages in Street Prepared cars must follow the same standards for interior modifications to accommodate the cage installation as those which are applicable to Showroom Stock or Touring cars in Club Racing.

 

Here are a couple of pictures of my cage... they aren't the best pictures, and before I pulled the rest of the interior, but you can get a basic idea.

 

If you're going to put in a roll bar, and you want to be safe, then you want it welded in.

I think some people misunderstand why a welded in cage is better than a bolted in cage, it's not because the welds are stronger than the bolts, it's because it offers you design freedom in how the footer plates are attached to the shell.

The floor pan is weak thin metal. Bolt in cages use sandwich plates on the floor pan for the main hoop which is about as far from ideal as you can get from a strength standpoint. I'm sure some here have seen that Mustang that went on its roof with a bolt in cage where the main hoop legs punched through the floor pan.

The shell is strong in places like the sills, the back seat shelf and the suspension turrets. With a weld in roll bar you can exploit this by having mounting reinforcements that are tied into these strong bits of the shell with lots of weld length for strength.

Here's how my main hoop is mounted, it's up on boxes to allow the welding of the top of the cage without cutting holes in the floor pan, but you could just as easily use a 3-sided box structure that ties into the floor pan, sill and rear seat shelf.



This is a rally cage with lots of points of attachment to the shell, so it has an easier job than a 4-point roll bar where the entire load is going to be taken up by just 4 points on the shell, so for the 4-point you probably want to be even more on the overkill side as far as strong shell reinforcements for the mounting points.

It shouldn't be that expensive to go the custom weld-in route, the only challenge is the main hoop, the rest is all straight tubes. Something I didn't mention is a hybrid where the shell reinforcements are welded and then the sandwich plates bolt to those, but it's kinda unnecessary if you're not going to be pulling the cage in and out and would be more expensive.

 

WheelGap hit the nail on the head... I personally would never run a bolt-in cage for exactly that reason. The mounting points for bolt-in cages, even if "re-enforced" are never going to be even remotely as strong as a properly designed weld-in cage with supported boxes. I'll have to take some pictures of the welded boxes on my car, they are designed to utilize the strongest areas of the cars chassis and re-enforcing those areas before mounting the structure to them. The middle mounts on my cage for example aren't just mounted to a plate on the floor... they have a welded box against the edge of the door and rear pan similar to WheelGap's picture. This has two primary benefits... one is the obvious safety benefits of having a cage that won't punch through the thin metal floor and kill you (big benefit) and the other is the structural rigidity you gain from a properly designed cage.

 

some pics of my weld in half cage. there are font foot plates welded in so it can be turned to full cage later.

the main hoop is welded as close to the door sill as possible and the supporting plate goes the whole way up the door sill. i drive the car to the track with stock seat belts.

 

honda-guy, your cage looks just like mine!

 

Here is mine. 1,3/4 Mild steel fully tig welded.


























This main goal is time attack/ HPDE ect.

I have more pics if needed for questions...

Evan Smith

 

esevo, that cage is beautiful! Do you have a build thread for your car?