One Lap of America 2012 Rochester Group
Apr 23, 2012, 12:10 AM
#17
Newbie
Thread Starter
Stephen
Apr 24, 2012, 04:08 PM
#19
Newbie
Thread Starter
I didn't post anything yesterday because I was operating on 3 hours of sleep and the body is royally ticked off about it. It was a long weekend, but we have a running car. The motor was assembled Saturday and went into the car on Sunday.
We have some kinks to work out before we can get it tuned. Like getting a wastegate actuator that works. Should be a piece of cake with 9 days left to go and a list of about 30 things to do.
Here is the write up of the weekends activities.
http://onelap.rochesterdsm.org/2012/...agnus-lessons/
Of course it was really a kick in the nuts to wake up to the car covered with snow the next morning when we went up to Canada wearing shorts.
Stephen
We have some kinks to work out before we can get it tuned. Like getting a wastegate actuator that works. Should be a piece of cake with 9 days left to go and a list of about 30 things to do.
Here is the write up of the weekends activities.
http://onelap.rochesterdsm.org/2012/...agnus-lessons/
Of course it was really a kick in the nuts to wake up to the car covered with snow the next morning when we went up to Canada wearing shorts.
Stephen
Apr 24, 2012, 11:40 PM
#20
Fueling around
As some of you may or may not know, the Evo X fuel system has a restriction in the fuel pump assembly that creates a venturi effect to siphon fuel from the passenger side of the tank to the drivers side. While it's a marvel of engineering, this can cause problems when trying to run a fuel system to support double or even triple the original horsepower rating of the car. Your fuel return system just can't flow enough and your base idle pressure skyrockets making the car hard to tune and worse yet potentially burning out your fuel pump. There even is a small mesh filter in the return line system that can clog up with debris causing elevated fuel pressures in stock vehicles.
One solution is to drill out this restriction to allow more flow as well as remove the small filter. So what happens when you drill the restriction too large? You lose your venturi effect and ability to siphon fuel from the passenger side of the tank. Luckily you can insert a restrictor that is drilled out to an appropriate size, but obviously starting smaller and testing at each stage is the better idea though.
After reading through pages of info on this site and the other evo x forums, I decided to establish a summary of what worked and what didn't and this is what I came up with:
5/64" = 250 LPH (Walbro 255 GSS341)
3/32" = 300 LPH (Bosch 044)
7/64" = 350 LPH (Aeromotive 340)
1/8" = 400 LPH (Fuel Lab 41401, Walbro 400 LPH)
9/64" = 450+ LPH (Fuel Lab 41402, Walbro double-pumper)
Cory at STM is prepping my sponsor's 2008 Evo X MR for the 2012 One Lap event and with a 74 lb/min turbo I wanted a beefy fuel system that could handle whatever we could throw at it be it E85 or just pump gas. We have a Walbro 255 intank feeding an MDR Fuel surge tank that leads to a Fuel Lab 41402 pump that flows an estimated 530 LPH @ 43 psi at idle. As expected we were having serious return line issues with the -4 AN sized return lines we had in place and couldn't get pressures below 65 psi regardles of the special electronic regulator that would slow down the pump to a low demand mode. Next he welded in -6 AN fittings on the surge tank all the way to the Evo X fuel pump assembly using a bulkhead fitting to elminate any flow issues.
Using the new Fuel Lab electronic fuel pressure regulator we ran a -6 AN return line to a fuel canister as a test and were able to get 43 psi at idle under vacuum when the pump was in low demand and high demand mode. After running into the issues I found this great thread and decided that we also needed to remove the mini filter and drill out the restriction. We ended up going with an 1/8" drill bit and the fuel system seemed stable holding 43 psi in low demand pump mode and 48 psi in high demand pump mode. Likely a 9/64" drill bit would have brought the high demand pump mode closer to 43 psi but we decided to let the electronic regulator do it's magic and reduce flow when more fuel was not needed.
For those not familiar with the FuelLab pumps, their new electronic controller can step down voltage flow to the pump so that you don't overun your fuel return system at idle and cruise. That seemed to work initially but then all of a sudden we were getting 65-85 psi base pressure at idle with it swinging wildly all over the place. Something had changed and of course being a new setup we blamed the electronic controller for the problems... turns out that after testing the -6 AN line into a fuel canister again the regulator and pump were still working fine!
Cory opened up the fuel pump assembly and we found out that the hose between the bulkhead fitting and the return line restrictor was getting crimped once the assembly was placed into the tank. The fuel pressure was bouncing all over the place as it would force it's way past the restriction and then back up again. After finding another in-tank return line similar to the stock plastic piece that wouldn't bend or collapse, we gave it another test.
Now we have 43 psi at idle under vacuum and about 50 psi @ at 0 psi which was totally acceptable. We calibrated it to start increasing at a 1:1 ratio from that set point and now I'm tuning basic drivability with the FIC 1100 cc injectors. We'll find out how this setup does above 5 psi soon enough but for now I'm impressed how the electronic regulator can step down pump flow with a demand system yet still allow huge flow numbers when the regulator indicates that it needs more pressure. Hopefully our fuel issues are over and I was able to get down below 1/8 tank with no problems on the way home before filling up with fresh gas.
Hopefully this will help others when dealing with the Evo X fuel pump assembly restrictions and trying to run a large capacity fuel system. Tomorrow the car goes on the dyno for some low boost tuning and if the clutchpacks are broken in enough I'll try and dial it in for 26-28 psi operation.
One solution is to drill out this restriction to allow more flow as well as remove the small filter. So what happens when you drill the restriction too large? You lose your venturi effect and ability to siphon fuel from the passenger side of the tank. Luckily you can insert a restrictor that is drilled out to an appropriate size, but obviously starting smaller and testing at each stage is the better idea though.
After reading through pages of info on this site and the other evo x forums, I decided to establish a summary of what worked and what didn't and this is what I came up with:
5/64" = 250 LPH (Walbro 255 GSS341)
3/32" = 300 LPH (Bosch 044)
7/64" = 350 LPH (Aeromotive 340)
1/8" = 400 LPH (Fuel Lab 41401, Walbro 400 LPH)
9/64" = 450+ LPH (Fuel Lab 41402, Walbro double-pumper)
Cory at STM is prepping my sponsor's 2008 Evo X MR for the 2012 One Lap event and with a 74 lb/min turbo I wanted a beefy fuel system that could handle whatever we could throw at it be it E85 or just pump gas. We have a Walbro 255 intank feeding an MDR Fuel surge tank that leads to a Fuel Lab 41402 pump that flows an estimated 530 LPH @ 43 psi at idle. As expected we were having serious return line issues with the -4 AN sized return lines we had in place and couldn't get pressures below 65 psi regardles of the special electronic regulator that would slow down the pump to a low demand mode. Next he welded in -6 AN fittings on the surge tank all the way to the Evo X fuel pump assembly using a bulkhead fitting to elminate any flow issues.
Using the new Fuel Lab electronic fuel pressure regulator we ran a -6 AN return line to a fuel canister as a test and were able to get 43 psi at idle under vacuum when the pump was in low demand and high demand mode. After running into the issues I found this great thread and decided that we also needed to remove the mini filter and drill out the restriction. We ended up going with an 1/8" drill bit and the fuel system seemed stable holding 43 psi in low demand pump mode and 48 psi in high demand pump mode. Likely a 9/64" drill bit would have brought the high demand pump mode closer to 43 psi but we decided to let the electronic regulator do it's magic and reduce flow when more fuel was not needed.
For those not familiar with the FuelLab pumps, their new electronic controller can step down voltage flow to the pump so that you don't overun your fuel return system at idle and cruise. That seemed to work initially but then all of a sudden we were getting 65-85 psi base pressure at idle with it swinging wildly all over the place. Something had changed and of course being a new setup we blamed the electronic controller for the problems... turns out that after testing the -6 AN line into a fuel canister again the regulator and pump were still working fine!
Cory opened up the fuel pump assembly and we found out that the hose between the bulkhead fitting and the return line restrictor was getting crimped once the assembly was placed into the tank. The fuel pressure was bouncing all over the place as it would force it's way past the restriction and then back up again. After finding another in-tank return line similar to the stock plastic piece that wouldn't bend or collapse, we gave it another test.
Now we have 43 psi at idle under vacuum and about 50 psi @ at 0 psi which was totally acceptable. We calibrated it to start increasing at a 1:1 ratio from that set point and now I'm tuning basic drivability with the FIC 1100 cc injectors. We'll find out how this setup does above 5 psi soon enough but for now I'm impressed how the electronic regulator can step down pump flow with a demand system yet still allow huge flow numbers when the regulator indicates that it needs more pressure. Hopefully our fuel issues are over and I was able to get down below 1/8 tank with no problems on the way home before filling up with fresh gas.
Hopefully this will help others when dealing with the Evo X fuel pump assembly restrictions and trying to run a large capacity fuel system. Tomorrow the car goes on the dyno for some low boost tuning and if the clutchpacks are broken in enough I'll try and dial it in for 26-28 psi operation.
Last edited by Hiboost; Apr 24, 2012 at 11:58 PM.
Apr 25, 2012, 02:34 PM
#21
Watch my co-drivers Dr. Paul Seto & Stefan Rzadzinski being interviewed on TV describing what they are up against in the 2012 One Lap of America event.
http://video.citytv.com/video/detail...ap-of-america/
Now I better make sure the car is 100% ready to deliver that 700 crank HP, no pressure! After some further fuel trim tweaking and suspension adjustments I'll be on the STM dyno tomorrow hopefully reaching that goal which would be about 550 whp. Obviously I'll be starting at lower boost and such but I'm confident that with all the reliability upgrades and the built Buschur 2.2L engine, stage 3 ported head, 74 lb/min turbo and AMS TMP cams I should be able to find 100 crank HP over last years combo which was a stock engine, GTX30 turbo and stock cams.
What's funny is that apparently Stefan failed his first driver's test, should be interesting to see how he adapts to the car this coming Monday & Tuesday at Watkins Glen where we make sure everything is working as expected.
You can help us raise more money for the Kids with Cancer Society through his donation page here:
http://kwc.akaraisin.com/Donation/Ev...d=8&Lang=en-CA
Every bit helps and it gives you a printed reciept as a fully tax deductable charitable contribution.
Thanks for reading guys.
http://video.citytv.com/video/detail...ap-of-america/
Now I better make sure the car is 100% ready to deliver that 700 crank HP, no pressure! After some further fuel trim tweaking and suspension adjustments I'll be on the STM dyno tomorrow hopefully reaching that goal which would be about 550 whp. Obviously I'll be starting at lower boost and such but I'm confident that with all the reliability upgrades and the built Buschur 2.2L engine, stage 3 ported head, 74 lb/min turbo and AMS TMP cams I should be able to find 100 crank HP over last years combo which was a stock engine, GTX30 turbo and stock cams.
What's funny is that apparently Stefan failed his first driver's test, should be interesting to see how he adapts to the car this coming Monday & Tuesday at Watkins Glen where we make sure everything is working as expected.
You can help us raise more money for the Kids with Cancer Society through his donation page here:
http://kwc.akaraisin.com/Donation/Ev...d=8&Lang=en-CA
Every bit helps and it gives you a printed reciept as a fully tax deductable charitable contribution.
Thanks for reading guys.
Last edited by Hiboost; Apr 25, 2012 at 02:44 PM.
Apr 27, 2012, 07:16 AM
#23
Thanks man, they were a bit nervous and forgot to mention me in the interview which was somewhat amusing, but never the less I'm driving more than half of the 19 points events for this year's 2012 One Lap of America.
Found out last night that even at 24 psi boost which is my minimum wastegate boost, the SPP 500 horsepower clutchpacks are slipping... So we had to scrap the dyno session. Granted we're targeting higher horsepower levels than that but it's only because we want a moderate amount of torque over a very wide 4000-8500 rpm range. The rating is really a torque limit rather tha horsepower. Jeremy has had his MR at the 540 whp level for a while now so we should be able to make it work.
The local weather has been anything but good for tuning on the street, with pouring rain and 40*F temps the Hankook R-S3's were not hooking up safely. The car feels insanely fast keeping it on the edge of slippage and I'm working with SSP and a few other ECU tuners to help "fool the ECU" into allowing me to at least go full throttle at 24 psi. Once that hurdle is made I'll work my way up to 26 psi and probably test it at 28 psi so that we have some headroom.
Worst case I can trim back the max TPS allowed at any RPM point so that we can still plant our foot onto the gas pedal without having to worry about modulating it. This engine/cam/turbo combination is just wicked, hopefully I can get some official dyno numbers and tweak the ECU enough to prevent it allowing the SST transmission to ruin the part.
Found out last night that even at 24 psi boost which is my minimum wastegate boost, the SPP 500 horsepower clutchpacks are slipping... So we had to scrap the dyno session. Granted we're targeting higher horsepower levels than that but it's only because we want a moderate amount of torque over a very wide 4000-8500 rpm range. The rating is really a torque limit rather tha horsepower. Jeremy has had his MR at the 540 whp level for a while now so we should be able to make it work.
The local weather has been anything but good for tuning on the street, with pouring rain and 40*F temps the Hankook R-S3's were not hooking up safely. The car feels insanely fast keeping it on the edge of slippage and I'm working with SSP and a few other ECU tuners to help "fool the ECU" into allowing me to at least go full throttle at 24 psi. Once that hurdle is made I'll work my way up to 26 psi and probably test it at 28 psi so that we have some headroom.
Worst case I can trim back the max TPS allowed at any RPM point so that we can still plant our foot onto the gas pedal without having to worry about modulating it. This engine/cam/turbo combination is just wicked, hopefully I can get some official dyno numbers and tweak the ECU enough to prevent it allowing the SST transmission to ruin the part.
Last edited by Hiboost; Apr 27, 2012 at 07:20 AM.
Apr 28, 2012, 04:40 PM
#24
And I have to pick this year to have to have a 10 year wedding anniversary during One Lap. What the F~#k was I thinking. This will be a fun year too. **sigh**
You need a co-driver? 
The way my current co-driver is going, he may be hooked up with Paul and crew for a while if they if they pull off a good finish on this event.
This will be a fun year too. **sigh** The way my current co-driver is going, he may be hooked up with Paul and crew for a while if they if they pull off a good finish on this event.
Apr 28, 2012, 07:57 PM
#25
We'll see Sean, right now the MR platform is proving to be more of a challenge than I thought it would. It did hit 477 whp at 28 psi but I had to let off due to slipping clutchpacks. After extensive tweaking of the tune to fool the ECU into thinking all is well and barely modified, I had to dial the car back to a conservative 450 whp @ 23-24 psi tune. The car keeps pulling at 8000 rpm and is barely leveling out, mainly due to the fact that the car really wants to run 26-28 psi and have more aggressive timing. The torque curve tapers in and is almost completely flat, will be great for the road courses. I ended up softening the initial torque hit by dropping 2* timing and really had to play with the SST maps along with help from Eric at SSP to keep it happy.
It's possible that as the clutchpacks get more miles on them they might improve although I think the initial slippage is still ECU induced and the day won't come soon enough when they crack the TCU that controls the torque limits of the transmission. Don't get me wrong, at 450 whp that is just about 600 crank HP and where my 5 speed car was last year at 28 psi, still feels plenty fast on the street and we should be competitive. What is amazing is the Borg Warner S300 FMW turbo, with moderate mivec settings it spools 20 psi by 3800 rpm in 4th thanks to the Buschur 2.2L 1BAMF engine, Stage 3 ported head, and AMS TMP cams. Some day we'll get the full potential out of this combo, I have a feeling we should have gotten the 600HP rated clutchpacks even if we weren't shooting for high torque numbers, smooth shfting be damned!
The KW clubsport suspension might need a few tweaks on the settings but already it handles amazingly well. STM did an awesome alignment job with their brand new machine... settings were exactly what I asked for. We are doing one more day of prep and will then have 2 days of testing at Watkins Glen with the NASA HPDE. Then the car gets a full vinyl wrap on Wednesday followed by us heading to the start of the race on Thursday. It's going to be a crazy week but I'm really looking forward to the competition!
I'll post a dyno sheet tomorrow when I can scan it in.
It's possible that as the clutchpacks get more miles on them they might improve although I think the initial slippage is still ECU induced and the day won't come soon enough when they crack the TCU that controls the torque limits of the transmission. Don't get me wrong, at 450 whp that is just about 600 crank HP and where my 5 speed car was last year at 28 psi, still feels plenty fast on the street and we should be competitive. What is amazing is the Borg Warner S300 FMW turbo, with moderate mivec settings it spools 20 psi by 3800 rpm in 4th thanks to the Buschur 2.2L 1BAMF engine, Stage 3 ported head, and AMS TMP cams. Some day we'll get the full potential out of this combo, I have a feeling we should have gotten the 600HP rated clutchpacks even if we weren't shooting for high torque numbers, smooth shfting be damned!
The KW clubsport suspension might need a few tweaks on the settings but already it handles amazingly well. STM did an awesome alignment job with their brand new machine... settings were exactly what I asked for. We are doing one more day of prep and will then have 2 days of testing at Watkins Glen with the NASA HPDE. Then the car gets a full vinyl wrap on Wednesday followed by us heading to the start of the race on Thursday. It's going to be a crazy week but I'm really looking forward to the competition!
I'll post a dyno sheet tomorrow when I can scan it in.
Apr 28, 2012, 10:19 PM
#26
I AM on vacation the week of One Lap in case someone needs to hire a non-pro non-ringer driver!! 
If the pro Canadian racecardriver guy gets the flu let me know. I did win 9 of my first 11 NASA Time Trial events since I got my TT license. But I contribute the wins to the car's capability . . . The losses are all me!
If the pro Canadian racecardriver guy gets the flu let me know. I did win 9 of my first 11 NASA Time Trial events since I got my TT license. But I contribute the wins to the car's capability . . .
The losses are all me!
Apr 29, 2012, 04:59 AM
#27
I AM on vacation the week of One Lap in case someone needs to hire a non-pro non-ringer driver!!
If the pro Canadian racecardriver guy gets the flu let me know. I did win 9 of my first 11 NASA Time Trial events since I got my TT license. But I contribute the wins to the car's capability . . . The losses are all me!
If the pro Canadian racecardriver guy gets the flu let me know. I did win 9 of my first 11 NASA Time Trial events since I got my TT license. But I contribute the wins to the car's capability . . .
The losses are all me!I think I forgot to mention we have +7.0* of positive caster now, yummy!
Here is that dyno sheet along with some other shots of the car before wrap:
Last edited by Hiboost; Apr 29, 2012 at 05:12 AM.
May 3, 2012, 04:11 AM
#29
Some shots from testing at Watkins Glen Monday/Tuesday, in car camera footage of Stefan Rzadzinski pulling some 2:08-2:09 laps on Hankook R-S3 street tires with 75% throttle limits so that he could "learn" the car. This also gave the clutchpacks a bit of a better break in period and we hope to be at 100% power for the event.
May 3, 2012, 05:04 AM
#30
As promised:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QOGZ...ature=youtu.be
Can't wait to run the car at full power, it's going to be sick.
I'll talk to the owner of the Go Pro about why he placed his camera exactly in the middle of the field of view, LOL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QOGZ...ature=youtu.be
Can't wait to run the car at full power, it's going to be sick.
I'll talk to the owner of the Go Pro about why he placed his camera exactly in the middle of the field of view, LOL.