Hallster

Aaron,
I sent you an e-mail with my phone number. Lets discuss when you have a free minute...

Sean

Tofurky

seriously... great idea.

robi

iTrader: (24)

Not only a great Idea... It's an absolute blast using your EVO for what it was ment for without worries of the Black&White nature!

KK

iTrader: (4)

Ok, that makes a lot more sense then

I'll try and take another close look at the points and see if I can think of any recommendations.

Mark

Aaron Bitterman

I think it would be very helpful if everybody responding to/reading this post listed every single one of their mods so we can see where some cars would end up.

I'll post some changes to the classing later today.

Here's what I would like to run on my car:

1. R-compound tires or Slicks
2. Aftermarket wheels (depending on tires)
3. rear sway bar, (front too?)
4. shocks & springs
5. camber plates

Aaron Bitterman

Also note an important change made to the classing: All DSM cars are now included. This was something a number of people wanted and I can't see any reason not to do it. Let me know what ya'll think.

Thanks,
Aaron

Scot

iTrader: (6)

I skimmed all the previous posts.......... if you are running a time trial (with electronic transponder i assume), your car insurance will not cover your car. If you are simply at a "car driving event" like HPDE with NASA (High Performance Drivers Education) you have a pretty good chance of being covered.

I ran my Evo with NASA's time trials at Beaverun and Summit Point last year.... there was not much participation due to the insurance issue.... Most people have a hefty loan on their evo and cannot afford to run with no insurance.

I love the idea, but you just need to make sure you can afford it it you partipate..... I have a track only car now, so I won't be taking the evo to the track anymore.

Just putting my $.02 in.........

KK

iTrader: (4)

If we do that we probably shouldn't call it the Evo challenge... maybe something else.

Mark

ez76

iTrader: (5)

Cool idea.

There are some fine lines e.g. with many flashes (and some piggybacks) emulating a boost controller. I think you have to assume a CPU flash can act as something between an MBC and EBC, closer to a 35-40 point mod.

What would cams score? About 30?

KK

iTrader: (4)

Another question. DSM's would have a pretty clean disadvantage from a power / suspension / brakes standpoint, so how would mod points work to even that out for them?

Mark

Hallster

If they change the name to 'Driver Education and Time Trial Series', would one's car be covered then?

Has there been a forum discussion on this topic that you know of? Or, do you know where could I find out which insurances have DE coverage?

TIA,

Sean

Hallster

I thought some more about the boost control... turbo classes are notoriously hard to classify because a turbo is essentially a dynamically controlled engine diplacement system.

More boost = more theoretical displacement = faster lap times.

So, therein lies the problem...

There's several solutions to this problems, none really that easy though. The easiest, yet still a PITA is:

- don't classify the type of boost controller EBC or MBC
- limit the amount of boost and which turbo is installed in the car.
- quarantine the cars after their timed runs. when the top three cars are determined, hook up a boost gauge and make sure boost levels are less than the required boost level.

For stock class, I'd recommend less than 19.5psi. Stock turbo required. Cockpit controlled boost controller not allowed.

Mod class and above, stock turbo req'd. Any boost level 'okay'.

Unlimited. Well, unlimited.


Sean

Hallster

This is what I'm thinking:

- street tires, 140+ treadwear
- aftermarket wheels, stock width
- rear sway bar
- front sway Bar(who makes an aftermarket one?)
- lowered 1"
- stock spring rate
- ecu flash
- stock boost control
- roll bar(not roll cage)

Scot

iTrader: (6)

No...anything that is a an actual race or is timed is not covered by your insurance......... that is the reason WWW.NASAPRORACING.COM had very minimal turnout last year for their time trials.... sounds great on paper until your realize you may trash your $30k car and not have it covered.

If you want to play for real (timing, racing), you have to be willing to pay......

I have never had any real off track damage, but eventually something will happen.....

Aaron Bitterman

Scot,

After running these events for over 2 years I've witnessed some incidents and followed up to find that most of the drivers who have done significant damage to their cars have been covered by insurance, myself included with my S2000.

Our events are a combination of PDI (performance driving instruction) schools, time trials, and wheel to wheel racing. If you come to one of our events you can be a participant in our school and time trial or wheel to wheel race (you CAN do this, I'm not saying you're covered because I have no idea). This is because many of our racers are also instructors. We don't police what people are doing, whether they're competing, teaching or learning, or whether they have timing and we pretty much stay away from issues surrounding damage to cars for obvious reasons.

TRANSCRIPTION FROM INTERVIEW BY INSURANCE CARRIER:
Once I was called by an insurance company regarding a car and the interview went almost exactly like this:

IA: "Was the car a race car?"
AB: "No, it was a street car".
IA: "What's the difference" (I'm not kidding, they asked that).
AB: "Well, in my opinion a race car has an arsenal of safety equipment that a street car doesn't have, so they're safer."
IA: "But this car didn't have that equipment?"
AB: "He had some of it, like harnesses".
IA: "Are the harnesses something that are in racecars?"
AB: "Yes, but many street cars use them too because they're safer in some instances. And they're easy to install and take out again."
IA: "So you would say this car was not prepped to be a race car?"
AB: "No, definately not. He did some things that you have to do to take a car on the track, but the car has air conditioning, cruise control, heaters, power windows, power convertible top, an awesome stereo, you know, all that stuff. You would never have that stuff in a race car."
IA: "Ok, thank you sir."

The driver got a check for the full value of the car.

I understand your fear and desire to protect your investment, but merely attending one of our events does not necessarily void your insurance. You are wrong when you say that a timed event will necessarily void insurance. Maybe for your carrier, but not mine. I use a major carrier and they told me they don't care about timing for educational purposes, they only care about competition. Some carriers do care about timing. Some care if you even look at a racetrack I suppose. Others seem to shell out bucks for totalled cars without asking any questions. If your carrier says you're not covered if you have timing, then don't get timing.

BTW, I'm surprised NASA didn't solve their problem by adding an HPDE component to these events to increase attendance.

I urge people to look into the coverage they have and figure out how they want to participate in our events, what the risks are, etc. All I can say is that, so far, people have had good luck and I would hate to see people getting scared off for no good reason.