evo_dan

****, that's funny!

BlackLoTuS

All I can say is that ASCAR is the enemy of all true motorsports fans. The only reason the fan base is growing so much is because there are an endless supply of idiots in this country. And yes, there are apparently idiots in Japan also. Just because its popular doesn't make it any good.

ASCAR has no technology advances, requires next to no skill compared to real motorsports (ok, drag racing doesn't suck as much as ASCAR but its not really a motorsport either), and is thoroughly boring. These guys must freak out when they have to turn right. Even if they do go on a REAL track, why would I want to see a bunch of 3500lb, technologically obsolete hunks of metal attempting to navigate a road coarse anyways?

In case anyone didn't understand my point:
ASCAR SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bahamut

Like I have stated in my previous post, NASCAR benefitted big times after IRL/CART split. It gave just enough crack for Bill France to pillage the fan base. At the same time, IMSA and SCCA were on the downslide. Big winner: NASCAR through PR.


In the past, CART was able to pull 3g in corners on super speedways . . . before the split, CART had cars nearing the 260 mph in the mid-90's. Very close until rules on areo package, pop off valves, etc . . . dropped the speed down big time. If CART kept its pace, I wouldn't be surprise that CAR would have surpassed 280 mph now, touching 300 mph.

bahamut

Also, All NASCAR cars cheat majorily on their areo package . . . not one of those cars look anything close to the road version. Their stock counterparts sure don't sport V8, much less carby!

Did anyone ever see a V8 lumina, monte carlo, T-bird (maybe the late 50's w/ its classic), and grand prix from the factory . . . nope, case close.

Believe me, Honda wants to bring the Accord body as Toyo wants to bring the Camry into the series.

An Accord w/ a V8 . . . imagine that!

Toyo will raid their luxury division for a V8 for block.

cupOZnj

i like nascar. this is why (and why all previous points are just uninformed):

stock cars do NOT refer to the fact that you can buy them. ford doesn't make a 2 door taurus. stock cars refer to the fact that they are all the same, and held to stringent rules regarding body, engine, and suspension.

not technologically advanced? put any winston cup car up against any rally car in a wind tunnel and see who has less drag. these cars are amazingly engineered, right down to the last detail, and even with the "stringent" rules there is major room for tuning, such as manifold size, tire pressure, camber, etc. which can shave seconds off a lap time. there is more to 'tuning' than horsepower and aerodynamics. you should watch a show on how they tune winston cup cars, you could learn a lot.

also, i'd like to see anyone here drive a car at 200 mph with 8 cars around you all about 6" away with nothing in between but a 1/4" piece of sheet metal. being at a race live and seeing cars (LOUD!!!!) whip by you at 180 mph is amazing.

and you want to talk about skill? the amount of forces that you have to overcome when cornering is tremendous...being able to hold your line takes great skill, especially when there's another car breathing down your neck, sucking your air and making your rear end fly in the air. next time you go driving, try and take a corner at full speed while turning the wheel as hard as you can and having just as much force push against you. now do that for 3 hours.

i am an auto racing enthusiast, i like all types of racing; drag, rally, stock, f1....cars are cars.

StreetLancer

My major problem is that most NASCAR fans live under this HORRIBLE assumption that NASCAR is the one and only motorsport, and that it takes more skill than, say, a LeMans driver has. Bull**** on both counts. Add to that, the most interesting stuff that happens in the sport happens off camera, and in reality isn't all that interesting. The sport is more the setting up of the car for each race, and, really, who would watch that CONSTANTLY.

cupOZnj

i don't mean to have it on the outs with you streetlancer, but i disagree. i mean.....to some point it is true, but look at football fans. they think soccer takes no skill. or any sport for that matter....it's just a preference, but that's no reason to hate the sport, cause of (some) of the fans. i think there is a good amount of thigns you can watch in regards to tuning the car, they have a lot of shows on it. and during the race one of the most exciting parts is when they have to run pit stops, and you get to see they make changes and race to get off pit road first. as i said....cars are cars.....and i like watching any sort of auto racing, especially nascar (because no one team is dominant like in F1 or LeMans-not trying to put those sports down just making a point)

trigeek37

NASCAR = "racing" in a country that is mostly made up of people that have zero driving ability/desire. drivers lack talent, but it is a good show - it is the WWF of auto racing.

F1 = the pinicle of racing, both machines and people - take any F1 driver, put them in a "Ford Taurus" NASCAR and they would win every race of the season. they don't need to go 500+ miles cause they drive on the razors edge 100% of their race.

CART - how many American drivers compete in this series? so much potential, great tracks, some talent, but still way behind F1 - and who knows how long it can survive with IRL?

IRL - see NASCAR with open wheeled cars.

WRC - super talent, odd, odd people.... love to watch it, hope it grows, would absolutly love to try it.

Sports car racing - will always be my favorite. teams do awesome things with cars that come out of huge factories, espically when they go 24 hours at a time. competition is a mix between huge factory efforts (C5R, R8 among others) and privateers scraping cars together to compete, and compete well (Saleen, Oreca, varios teams driving Porshes).

my 2 cents...

cupOZnj

as previously stated....the one big draw i have to nascar is the fact that ANYONE can win a race at any time. this past week, the winning driver was a replacement for sterling marlin, and it was his 2nd winston cup race. and even the BEST drivers could go an entire season without winning. there's more crashes, more excitement, more lead changes....if you can get into it it's really fun to watch. i like the other forms of racing too....i'm not oging to sit here and say nascar is the best f1 sucks, but i would like to defend nascar and hope that people with good car sense see that it's not just driving in a circle.

bahamut

Like I say NASCAR cheat on their areo package.

I totally lost respect for the sport when Bill Elliot back in te late 80's or so cracked the 200 mph barrier at Talladega, and NASCAR got scared and immediately decided to put restrictor plate. You don't think those drivers cheat on that too. You bet your bottom dollar that team did too.

You want speed and G-load. Look at CART back in the days before the split. They were about to crack the 260 mph barrier at Indy (256 - 258 on the straights).

How about the past FIA Group C cars? Mercedes with a V8 TT ran the 7 mile straightaway on the 24 hrs of Lemans about 252 mph. The next year w/ rule changes, they used a V10 can cranked it around 256 mph.

cupOZnj

if you want fast....why don't you watch land speed records. they go 800 mph. why is whoever the fastest car is have to be the "winner".

it's very hard to cheat now...they measure your car immediately after the race and they have a jig for every measurement. if your hood deviates by .1" it fails, and so on. rusty wallace was recently fined 25,000 for something not being within spec. the draw to the sport is the actual "racing" part, where you watch a car start in 28th position and drive well and pass other cars and move up to 2nd.....it's not about how FAST you can go but how well you can manuever with 42 other cars trying to put you in a wall.

bahamut

Land speed record cars with a rocket or turbine engine . . . no thanks. That's too easy to gain speed. Besides, I have seen several at the local track within the past 3 years during test and tune.

Back in the hey days, CART had the best entertainment on the road, street, small oval, and super speedway.

There are several factors that made NASCAR popular, and it has nothing to do with the personalities of Big Dale, Awesome Bill, Davy Allision, Mark MArtin, and Rusty.

CART split due to greed and speed from Tony George of IRL and the owner of Indy.

IMSA had two owners revolt against the ruling body and sponsors.

Finally, SCCA lost big time money and can't hype of their Trans-Am series.

Since Bill France JR is a marketing genius, he scooped up all those disgruntle fans under his wings. That's it. He's Vince M of WWF in NASCAR . . . Look how many years did it take for Vince to knock Ted Turner out of the wrestling market.

bahamut

Also, tell me why NASCAR is barring Toyo from bringing their Camry and Honda with their Accord into the fold of NASCAR since '98. Since I'm not a fan of either company, NASCAR ruling body knows competition will be really stiff, and the good old boy network will be bashed down . . . don't tell me about the busch series experiment.

pjal84

Not necessarily the most fair comparison since a rally car must compete in much wider variety of environments and terrains. Couple that with the fact a rally car is also based on a homologation road car ('cept that damn 206...that's just wrong) and actual have a resemblance to the cars they're based off of.

cupOZnj

well my point is that winston cup cars are VERY technologically advanced (not trying to put down rally cars) and that the engineering that goes into them is remarkable. i think people underestimate how much work goes into designing these cars.

i believe one of the main reasons that nascar does not want toyota, or any other foreign car manufacturer in their series, is because they are foreign. this is a truely pure american sport, if you watch it they even say a prayer at the beginning of each race. i am not religious and do not find myself drawn to the fact that they pray, but you have to look at the fact that the majority of fans that watch this are christians. only recently has there been introduction of african-american owners....and introducing foreign cars into this race series would not be a smart move in terms of fan interest. i also disagree that competition would be really stiff. since that these supposed toyotas would be restricted to the same terms as the other manufacturers, than all the cars would be pretty similar and have equal opportunity, which is the point of stock car racing.

you have to look at it for what it is. all the cars are the same. pontiac, chevy, ford, dodge, very few differences. the draw is whose team can get a good performing car for a particular track, keep it maintained, and drive it fast from week to week. the interest is in the fact that no one team dominates. give it a chance. you don't have to stop watching rally or F1 racing....you can watch both!