hbmike

dont forget mechanics

Butt Dyno

iTrader: (10)

good point

-bd

GPTourer

I bet if you went to any NASCAR event and went out into the parking lot and counted up all the Luminas/Monte Carlos, Grand Prixs, Tauruses(Tauri?), Intrepids and compared them to the Accords and Camry-ies (Maximas, Galants, etc) I bet it would not be so ethnicentric. They're would proabably be just as many foreign brands as domestic, maybe more. Those cars are built here by Americans and sold to American's just like the domestics. It would be interesting to see what the fans would want if they could vote for it. A carbed V8 powered Camry or Accord on the grid is no more ridiculous then a two door Taurus. I wish Nascar would allow Hendrick to field a Honda, it could only bring more money and sponsorship into a wildly popular series. Besides Formula one is just as boring, watching a 14 car field thin out to about 8 or so after one major crash, and seeing Shumacher or Mika pull away so only one car is going around the track in the lead is not my idea of fun either. That's why I like Touring Car, Trans Am, and rallying. With the latter even thought there's only one car, watching the driver go through such a varied course makes it that much more fun.

trigeek37

I have been to a NASCAR event, and I am not a import only guy - I am a car guy, plain & simple.

Have any of you guys drivin any of the cars that NASCAR are based on? what a bunch of unemotional, boring automobiles. Taurus, Lumina etc are good cars to get you from point A to B, but that is about it. there is a reason people that drive those types of cars are attracted to NASCAR, think about it.....

NASCAR = boring crap
it is the lowest level of major professional racing, it is for people that cannot figure out F1, FIA GT, WRC, Cart etc. it is also a cespool of untalented drivers - namely American drivers (hey, lets be honest, as a society we are pretty ****ty drivers... name one American in F1 or WRC). If they were such hot ****, and were really chasing serious bucks, they would go play with the big boys in Europe.

my 2 cents...

bahamut

Restrictor plates do not prevent serious accidents. Richard Petty in a gravy train almost flipped his car over the guard fence and into the grand stand during a restrictor plate race.

NASCAR has invented that airfoil thing that flips up to push the car downward, instead making it airborne like a defective cruise missile.


Yes, I have driven all the cars within NASCAR, except the grand prix. All of them are bland in driving feel.


Naming an american in euro racing for big bucks. Michael Andretti tried, but his luck was always terrible. I know when some euro drivers come to the state, they usually dominate the sport for the year.

The only american that I can think of with semi-success is Mark Martin. I think he has won the 24 hrs of Lemans in the GT class before 00 or the existance of LMP cars . . . I know Rousch (sp) has won the 12 hrs of sebring and 24 hrs of daytona in a GT class 'stang.

DSMTurbo2

National
Association
Supporting
Cars
And
Rednecks

my $.02

cupOZnj

so uninformed....

i agree...wrc is great. but to say that nascar doesn't look at the track before a race?? wow. in my opinion, F1 is boring (i agree w/ trigeek). it's whoever has the most money, i.e. ferrari. and i seriously doubt you've driven a NASCAR car. those are not "luminas" and "tauruss", they are 700hp beasts. i don't see what takes so much talent to make a right turn instead of a left. why are right turns so much harder? i think it's harder to make a left turn at 180 mph and not put your car in the wall than to make right turns at 70 mph (in cars that can outhandle your mom). in fact, i think it would be much easier to drive an F1 car because of it's superiority, whereas in stock car racing you have to take in to acount 100s of variables to beat the other 42 guys out there trying to shave hundreths of seconds off your lap time. and btw, nascar does run 2 road races during the year, and they are boring because it is so slow. the great thing about nascar is that you can sit in the stands and watch the ENTIRE race unfold in front of you and see every pass, crash, bump, etc. as opposed to any other type of racing where you see one corner and that's it.

i like ALL types of racing. i like nascar the best because of it's exceptional spectator-ability...and i respect those guys in the garage a lot.

Butt Dyno

iTrader: (10)

no, i said that wrc people actually have to take the course into account *when modifying the car for that particular rally*. i.e., putting lights on the side mirrors at the safari rally to scare the local people and zebras away so they don't end up as dents in the hood. i don't think there's any equivalent in nascar
"well, on this course, you'll be turning left four times..."
"well, on this course, you'll be turning left FIVE times..."
i'm not saying the shape of the course doesn't matter, i'm saying that in nascar, you don't exactly have to change your car to adapt to the course.

-bd

trigeek37

F1 isn't about who spends the most money, but it is... let me explain. the reason Ferrari is so successful right now can be pined on one reason alone. Michael Scheumacher - plain and simple. he may be the best driver the world has ever seen. He has won 3 (I am pretty sure it is 3) world F1 drivers champs with Fer now, but he alwo won with Benniton. Ferrari has the best chassis now, followed very closely by McLar/MB, but BMW has the best engine - they have to do more chassis work, and JPM needs a bit more seasoning... things will change next season, esp with Kimi getting more used to the M/M.

There are plenty of decent American drivers, hell Paul Neuman won a LeMans in the 1990s driving a Mustang. There the team, luck, and absolute reliability is more important then the drivers.... I am sure you could throw togther a couple of NASCAR drivers in a C5R or S7R and they would do pretty decent. But noone in NASCAR could drive F1 and compete, yet anyone from F1 could come to NASCAR and dominate, plane and simple.

do you know why NASCAR events are so long (500+ miles) compared to F1 - because they are so much less stressful on the driver. when you are behind the wheel of a Ferrrari F2003, you are driving 100% almost the entire race, this just isn't the case in NASCAR. the cars are set up to all run equal. I am not ripping on NASCAR or its fans, but it simply isn't up to par with real racing. it is telling that it is the most popular racing series here in the USA - it is a good factor how much motorsports entheusts know & understand about racing.

GPTourer

Now I am by no means a NASCAR fan, but I understand enough about the sport to know that the above statement is false. Each team goes through a rigorous testing and setup phase, changing camber, corner weighting, spoiler angle, tire pressure, duct tape placement, etc. etc. etc. depending on which track they are about to race on. As a matter of fact, some of the richer teams have particular cars that they ONLY use for a certain track. Once they get the right set up they stick in a box in the closet until the next race, as in this is Dale Jr's "talladega car" or his "daytona car" Our dealership has its own race car in what is known as the "Southern All-star series" and even though this is much more low tech then NASCAR (gasp, imagine that) they do the same thing depending on the course, and our driver has three cars. So even though it doesn't look like much from up above, there's a lot more going on then just a bunch of left turns. If you've got a decent enough computer, pick yourself an old copy of PApyrus' NASCAR racing, like 2 or 3. If you can find it in a bargain bin for like 9 or ten bucks, you'll see what I mean.

Butt Dyno

iTrader: (10)

i remember playing the original nascar racing on a 386... it was fun to drive in the wrong direction and cause huge 20 car pileups. but other than that i couldn't get into the game

and i guess i just don't think of that as "changing" the car, more "tweaking". i guess it's semantics. tire pressure and spoiler angle just don't seem as big a deal as the changes they make in the WRC, to me at least.

-bd

GPTourer

Agreed. But, there's even more to it then that in NASCAR, I was only able to offer a few examples. Still, most every road course series is like that. F1 guys only tweak their cars, so do Trans Am and Touring car people. Nothing would compare to WRC because of the varied terrain and time of day and inclement weather they have to endure.

cupOZnj

thanks gptourer.

and the reason nascar races are longer (in distance) is because they go faster, not cause it's less stressful. F1 changes speeds from 180-50 on some turns....tight hairpins they go down to first gear. average speeds of nascar races is 160-180mph. it's 3+ hours of continuous driving, just like F1 is. really, you should try and hop in one of those cars and take a corner at 170+ and NOT put it in a wall. it's not like they are just straight courses and all you do is step on the gas.....they have quirks, there is a particular race line to each course, and a constant battle to hold your line, pass other drivers (43 of them!! doesn't that count for anything???), and keep your car on the road, and be smart enough to put feedback for the crew to make adjustments during the race.

wrc is very cool, i enjoy it a lot. i wish i got speed channel so i could watch it more often. but it gets boring after some time, because there is little drama. F1 is cool too, but it's only on at 7am here, and also there's not much drama to seeing shumacher win every race. lemans is neat to watch once in a while, cept that audi dominates. the reason i find nascar so interesting is because it is like football to me...every sunday, flip on the race, watch my favorite driver, and just enjoy a good day of racing.

i have not put down any other type of racing. if you feel that you have to defend why you hate nascar by comparing it to other racing, and why they are better, go ahead. i don't think anyone has given a particular reason why they hate nascar, beside that F1 or wrc is better. you can only watch the best racing?

cupOZnj

edit that-besides the "boring" comment

Butt Dyno

iTrader: (10)

well, for me, any racing which involves turning in only one direction is not exciting, and i'm baffled by people who think otherwise

plus, remember 95% of the nascar demographic is just watching it hoping that there's a 20 car pileup or something. (although, i'll admit i'm amused when they show highlights on sportscenter and some guy comes out of his car and punches some other guy through his window)

-bd