trigeek37

I will take your word in this - as I have said before, there is a certain beauty that NASCAR has - it is amazing to watch that many cars go that fast so close together.

no, football (American and real football), hockey, basketball etc all require strenght, conditionioning, hand-eye coordination, and sport specific skill. you can be a fat *** a be a good driver or golfer. you can't be a fat *** and be a good basketball or American football player. (yeah, some look fat - but they aren't... they are quick & fast for someone their size, or any size for that matter)

I never said drag racers weren't good drivers - they are. they have the quickest reaction times for any job except pro hockey goalies (and hockey golies are all nuts ) And I have driven powerful cars. My fd is a turbo swap away from becoming a full fledged viper eater - it would come down to driver right now....

cupOZnj

i beg to differ. you can't be a fat-*** and be a good driver. there is a lot of endurance involved in racing. plus just the concentration and strain will keep you in shape. mucho stamina. are they in the same category as hockey players? no.

MarioEVO7

NASCAR is Boring, Rally Racing is a true sport that requires skill, not driving in a circle, sorry Oval , or whatever.

trigeek37

many of todays pro drivers are in excellent shape, esp those involoved in long events. Look at Mark Martin - Men's Health did a write up on him a couple of years ago - I hope I look that good at his age....

but there are plenty of exceptions: lets look at John Force - we will all agree that he is an excellent drag racer, but not exactly a paragon of fitness....

btw - concentration & strain lead to high bloodpressure & strokes, not good endurance.

Butt Dyno

iTrader: (10)

concentration, doing the same thing for 4 hours, bla bla bla.

by that standard, anyone who's finished 100% of gran turismo, with all the endurance races, is an athlete

-bd

trigeek37

lol - nice....

bahamut

"but to try and make the sport safer. yeah, crashes happen even on restrictor plate courses, but they feel that it would be more dangerous without them. i would like to think that higher ups in nascar development know what they are doing to introduce this."

Are you kidding me? There are more big name deaths since the introduction of restrictor plates . . . they aren't even going that fast too.

NASCAR made that flip-up foil if the car gets airbourne. Safety and speed are not the issue here. If so, NASCAR better start R&D in making the roll cage a lot stronger. Look at CART and IRL, they've made their chassis and tub stronger and more foot space.

W/o restrictor plate, the stronger cars have the ability to pull out of a draft, not acting like a scared lemming. I guess you like lemming racing.



"this is the best part of the sport. seeing cars do 180+mph 6inches from other cars is what is so exciting. they are constantly battling back and forth, which brings real drama to the competition."

Are you saying that the pre-restrictor plate yrs of racing suck because of lack of watchability. You're nuts. Better look in the mirror amongst big time drivers . . . they all hate restrictor plates from Big Dale to Rusty to MArtin.


"again-american drivers, on american soil, driving american cars. fans don't want anything else."

Are you blind? Why did Bill France Jr introduced NASCAR in Japan? Not a marketing ploy to add new viewers or wet tha appetite of japanese automakers? I guess NASCAR wanted to flaunted how NASCAR is the world's best racing format.

Are NASCAR and its fans afraid that their fav driver like Rusty driving a penske Toyo Camry or the Hendricks sporting an Accord? Or within 3 yrs, the japanese automakers will dominate the sport . . . it didn't take too long for those two companies dominate CART to much chagrin to me as a Chevy and Mercedes fan onboard Ilmor.

These are the Q's that I've ask you, but you just skirt around them . . . acting like France Jr isn't a marketing genius. Yes, he exploited the rift/greed between CART and Tony George. Yes, he took advantage of IMSA board members revolting amongst themselves. That's history. If you don't believe me, look it up. France Jr is a very savvy man like Vince M of WWE against Ted Turner . . . in the end, Vince destroyed the media millionaire.

Also, I'm willing to bet I know more NASCAR than you . . . when did you start watching NASCAR? I started when I was a teen in 85. There is no way you have watched more NASCAR than me. Just the last 2 yrs, I've given it up completely!


"The main reason why Toyota and/or Honda isn't in it yet is because they do not build a factory V-8."

There is nothing fatory about NASCAR's engines. They are a bunch of crate engines ranging from 5.5L to 7.4L (somewhere around there) in a sliding scale.

Both Honda and Toyo (V8 tundra) can pull their blocks from CART. I'm not saying Honda is going to pull their F1 engine block and make it carby and ask NASCAR for a sliding scale. That won't fly. There will be an uproar!

GPTourer

We'd all like to think so, but if you've ever played through it without using the pause button, without slamming into another car or the wall that would cause a regular car damage then maybe you'd have what it takes. But I doubt sitting on a couch in a living room could even come close to being in a hot race car for several hours. Especially when there's money, and lives at stake.


Cup already addressed this, but I want to state that I appreciate the sports car, touring car, and WRC where you can tell the difference in the cars quickly. But I don't understand why NASCAR is to be ridiculed because they have rules and control issues, same as F1. I couldn't tell a Ferrari from a McLaren if you took all the stickers off.

Okay great, no one is disputing that. Its just that when you start offering "reasons" we feel the need to show you why those points are invalid. I'm not partial to NASCAR either. I respect it, but not like. I don't like F1 either.

ROB281

Nascar is good for some harsh crashes especially on their short tracks. Can you say demolition derby!

cupOZnj

restrictor plates have NOT caused deaths. other safety factors have. that's why they increased safety measures in other parts of the car too. like the head restraint. how can you say that by limiting a cars top speed (thereby driving slower) it actually CAUSES deaths? just because they introduce a safety measure, and someone dies, doesn't mean that particular safety feature was to blame. it could possibly be some other reason. in fact i'm willing to bet there would be even MORE deaths if restrictor plates hadn't been introduced, due to the ever-increasing power of the cars. also, i fail to see why nascar restrictor plates is a reason to hate the sport as a whole. they only use them on a couple of the tracks. and as said before, other sports use restriction methods also.

"Are you saying that the pre-restrictor plate yrs of racing suck because of lack of watchability. You're nuts. Better look in the mirror amongst big time drivers . . . they all hate restrictor plates from Big Dale to Rusty to MArtin."
i never said that. i think i was commenting on what i find exciting about the sport, not having ANYTHING to do with restrictor plates. please keep things in context. i never said anything about nascar sucks.

the fact is...these are still not very valid reasons to HATE the sport. you HATE it because they use restrictor plates, and that all cars are american? that's like saying you hate baseball cause they can't use aluminum bats, or you hate hockey because of the two-line pass rule. if you think it's boring...that's one thing. putting the entire sport down because of some of it's quirks...i guess that's your loss.

cupOZnj

http://www.howstuffworks.com/nascar.htm

http://www.howstuffworks.com/nascar-safety.htm

you might just learn something.....

FSJRULES

I did not like the introduction of restrictor plates, I would have liked it if they would have left them run. but in infinate wisdom they must slow them down?? This has made for much tighter racing, and in some respects it is much more exciting. but I have always believed that it should be wide open, a test of machine and driver on whatever track they are on. (but they even slowed down F1 by making it mandatory to run grooved slicks, so even the purest of on track sports is not limited to safety restrictions) I agree that the powers that be should restrict things to a point, but not to the extent that they are doing in many forms of motorsports. In the history of running cars man has always tried to go faster, turn better, push the envelope. Why can't we get back to this kind of unrestricted racing that we had 100 yrs ago, now on a much greater scale? (Hey, they don't limit drag racers? They're approaching over 325mph in under 4 sec in a 1/4 mile) and thats in a Funny Car!!

nasdale

After working for 2 years on a NASCAR Busch Grand National pit crew, and being a racing fan since the age of 14 or so (almost 30 years worth), I think that all forms of motorsports are good. There are some I prefer to watch over others but hey, racing is racing. One big advantage that Nascar has over most all other forms of motorsports is that there are so many hometown track where for less than $10,000, you can get a hobby stock car and go racing for the season. This enables thousands of racing fans to try to live out their dream of being the superstar racer. It's where I got my start in stock cars. I worked for a guy at a local track for 3 years and managed to meet the right person who introduced me to a team in the BGN. After trying out for a year I was hired on as a weekend crew member. It was a chance to live out a dream. I will always look back on that time as one of the best of my life.
The restrictor plates were developed to make the racing safer for the fans, not the drivers. Untill Earnhardt Sr. died there was not alot of emphasis put into safety. But without the restrictor plates the cars were getting near the point that is they got turned they would literaly fly over the fence into the crowd. Bobby Allison and Richard Petty both came close to going over the fence. The effect would kill the sport. I hate plate racing as much as the next guy but until they find a easier way to slow them down it's a fact of life in NASCAR.
As far as not being tech. advanced, no they don't match up to F-1 or IRL, but in NASCAR more emphasis is placed on team than just driver. Watch the pit stops close once, they look so easy to do. I have changed front tires, rear tires, worked as gasman and my main job was catch can man. To do what the top teams are doing is unbelieveable. I like that they still us a pump jack, and 5 lug wheels instead of a air hose and single lug wheels. I also liked the fuel we used compared to CART or IRL. Ours was less explosive and we can see the flames.
I got the opportunity to drive one of our cars after a race once back to the car hauler, all I can say here was HOT DAMN. because of the NASCAR officials I couldn't go fast but I could jump the throttle a couple of times and YEEEEHAAAAAW. When I was working back at the local track I was able to go out on the track a few times during a practice session and give it a few laps. It's alot harder than it looks.
I am not going to try to convince anyone to convert to NASCAR, I like the racing and the people that I got the chance to work with and meet. I still watch it closely as I have friends still in it and wish I still could be there on race weekend but I also like watching WRC, Drag Racing (Go John Force, one crazy dude!!) and some IRL or Cart racing.

FSJRULES

This is not entirely true, restrictor plates were in use long before Dale Sr. Died at daytona. Also NASCAR has always been safety concious. The safety has been evolving as the technology has evolved. I still think that ultimately with fewer restrictions the sport would be safer. Yeah it tightens up the racing for the fans, but I think that puts more pressure on the drivers because they are always 6 inches apart at near 200mph. if it went back to pure horsepower, and wide open drafting that would spread the cars more, maybe there would be less "big ones"??? In going back to F1 they hardly limited those guys, even though they had a few deaths. (ok they put groves in thier slicks) But that was only recently. (past couple of years) I always thought that racing was for testing the limits of car and machine anyway?

Look at the stats of NASCAR deaths. In the recent past there have been more deaths than in the 35 or 40 years before this.

nasdale

FSJRULES, I am fully aware that restrictor plates have been around more than a couple of years. I am talking about the NASCAR mandated safety items. Most safety items were left up to the team and driver. I applaud NASCAR in setting these stricter safety rules but alot more can be done. They are testing to see if a higher greenhouse will slow down the cars enough to take away the restrcitor plate and make it easier for the taller/larger drivers to get in and out of the cars. They are also looking into the roof hatch simular to the NHRA one for a quick escape for the driver.
As far as the number of deaths, remember that NASCAR didn't keep very good records from the start. I beg to differ that there have been more deaths in recent years than the 35-40 previous. These recent deaths have been some highly public ones, with Earnhardt Sr., Adam Petty, Kenny Irwin to name a few.
I still love NASCAR racing and most all forms of motorsports, but I hate seeing anyone get killed doing it. I know it is a dangerous sport and I have seen first hand what these cars can go through. But just like the street cars we drive, more can be done to add safety without taking away from the racing.