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Well I got to finally try out my long shot idea that maybe more front bar would help to make the rear bar more effective if you're lifting a tire. Short answer is nope, it just seemed to lose bite in areas the the evo is sort of already weak. Like in a slight decreasing radius with a kink at the end, or just digging in a long sweeper. I did seem we lifted the inside rear less but that didnt do anything to improve and my overall pax times sucked compared to where I normally land. It just totally lacked that bite that really drives the front down.
Soooo, thats crap. My best luck so far has been front bar on full soft with cusco brackets flipped (about 70% OEM stiffness). Now this was also with 60mm of roll correction and car as low as I can get it on the tall 315s so YMMV. One thing that has shown to be absolutely true, as I add grip the rear grips harder. Its evident by the amount of rotation the car has one cold tires or on A052s and how un-willing to rotate the car is with hot A7s. A bit of LFB does help things but theirs just too much grip for most lift rotation unless you do a heavy throttle and lift with it laterally loaded. The heavy-throttle lift does seem to work well and be predictable but the LFB rotation seems much more aggressive and just slower as you handle sliding instead of forward motion.
I may try reducing rear bar a touch and seeing if it makes any feel difference or if once the rear is hiked up its mostly done contributing.
While FAE is getting a heart transplant, wife spotted this last week . Tons if little issues, wasn't taken very good care of (to my standard). Had a e85 map and overall shady tune feels like, full Ti exhaust, ams widemouth and ams intake. Unknown coils atm. Stupid wide RPF's even for a X, with WORK alum lugs that have a 7 spline key I had to order. And 275 NT05's that are worse for wear, streached quite a bit. As usual no fender liners and no front undertray lol. Spent the whole weekend washing, claying, buffing and more buffing before I did a ceramic coat. Fae never gets these treatments lol. I also spotted a metric ton of grease an oil caked all around the area under the water pump. Not sure on that yet. Then 3rd grinds impossibly bad and the clutch is a bit worn. Lots of work to do haha.
First X. I assume in order to read the X tephra tunes you have to pay the 100 bucks to get the XML's?
looks like a decent pickup. The wheels look standard issue for the X as far as width. As long as you have ECUFLASH you should be able to read the maps, if that’s how the car was actually tuned.
you were saying before that the RSB doesn't do anything if one tire is already up -- i have no idea why that makes sense? regardless of if the tire is up or not the rsb stiffness is still providing more or less twisting force based on how stiff the rear bar is, maybe i'm missing something. my evo's always lifted a wheel, whether it pushes through a corner or not. i switched to a stiffer rsb between sessions at my last track day and it made a huge difference towards oversteer from it.
Well I got to finally try out my long shot idea that maybe more front bar would help to make the rear bar more effective if you're lifting a tire. Short answer is nope, it just seemed to lose bite in areas the the evo is sort of already weak. Like in a slight decreasing radius with a kink at the end, or just digging in a long sweeper. I did seem we lifted the inside rear less but that didnt do anything to improve and my overall pax times sucked compared to where I normally land. It just totally lacked that bite that really drives the front down.
Soooo, thats crap. My best luck so far has been front bar on full soft with cusco brackets flipped (about 70% OEM stiffness). Now this was also with 60mm of roll correction and car as low as I can get it on the tall 315s so YMMV. One thing that has shown to be absolutely true, as I add grip the rear grips harder. Its evident by the amount of rotation the car has one cold tires or on A052s and how un-willing to rotate the car is with hot A7s. A bit of LFB does help things but theirs just too much grip for most lift rotation unless you do a heavy throttle and lift with it laterally loaded. The heavy-throttle lift does seem to work well and be predictable but the LFB rotation seems much more aggressive and just slower as you handle sliding instead of forward motion.
I may try reducing rear bar a touch and seeing if it makes any feel difference or if once the rear is hiked up its mostly done contributing.
It's funny. The rear grips that much more that I'm rolling that much more. I'm jumping up 200lbs on all 4 corners to 700F/900R which is more or less full slick territory, and this is with crappy short 285 R7's lol. I can see how thinking the added stiffness in the hub itself would carry through the RSB and lift the tire though. May need like a 22mm or switch back to oem links?
you were saying before that the RSB doesn't do anything if one tire is already up -- i have no idea why that makes sense? regardless of if the tire is up or not the rsb stiffness is still providing more or less twisting force based on how stiff the rear bar is, maybe i'm missing something. my evo's always lifted a wheel, whether it pushes through a corner or not. i switched to a stiffer rsb between sessions at my last track day and it made a huge difference towards oversteer from it.
the stabilizer bar only floats in its chassis mounts, so all the tension comes from its relation to the other wheel. If the other wheel is in the air there is no resistance for the bar to twist against. I think that's how it works anyway.
the stabilizer bar only floats in its chassis mounts, so all the tension comes from its relation to the other wheel. If the other wheel is in the air there is no resistance for the bar to twist against. I think that's how it works anyway.
trying to understand a little better. wouldn't the twist come from the bar's desire to go back to steady state? the bigger the difference the more it will try to straighten out?
trying to understand a little better. wouldn't the twist come from the bar's desire to go back to steady state? the bigger the difference the more it will try to straighten out?
It's like i can see it so easily in my head but putting it into words is hard. At least ones that I think will make sense. If one wheel is off the ground there is nothing resisting its movement and it will comply with what ever the other side is trying to do so you don't get any tension in the bar.
Thinking about it some more though, you would be working against the spring of the floating wheel at full extension.
Last edited by Biggiesacks; Aug 12, 2020 at 11:29 AM.
It's like i can see it so easily in my head but putting it into words is hard. At least ones that I think will make sense. If one wheel is off the ground there is nothing resisting its movement and it will comply with what ever the other side is trying to do so you don't get any tension in the bar.
doesn't the bar itself have an internal desire to want to be straight? it doesn't need the ground to push up on to try to be straight/steady state. the other thing is, it seems to have been disproven empirically. all my cars that lifted, ESP the mini cooper, almost never put a wheel on the ground. yet with each rear sway bar stiffening, the car behaved way better with less understeer
doesn't the bar itself have an internal desire to want to be straight? it doesn't need the ground to push up on to try to be straight/steady state. the other thing is, it seems to have been disproven empirically. all my cars that lifted, ESP the mini cooper, almost never put a wheel on the ground. yet with each rear sway bar stiffening, the car behaved way better with less understeer
Sorry I did a ninja edit. I think what's screwing my thinking up is I keep thinking/mixing up how a live axle behaves. With the stabilizer bar it wants to keep both sides level so I think you have the right idea on this. One side in compression and the other side at full extension would create a bunch of tension in the bar.
I'm under the assumption that the bar going up on one end brings the other end up, with it. How much, depends on bar thickness.
Our cars lift a wheel because suspension works diagonally, so when the front/outside tire is compressed, the car tilts and lifts the rear/inner.
I'd assume the bar is doing nothing at that point, but absolutely helps the other 99% of the time.
Or my brain fog has me confused, again.
bar works even if the other wheel is off the ground... In simplest terms, the bar adds a percentage of other side spring rate, but only in roll/single side bump scenario..
bar works even if the other wheel is off the ground... In simplest terms, the bar adds a percentage of other side spring rate, but only in roll/single side bump scenario..
Makes sense, since the lifted end of the bar is still pushing against the lifted shock/spring.
The bars contribution to roll is effectively double its actual torsional rate because you can roughly assume as one side goes up the other goes down. Certainly not 100% equal but good enough for discussion. Once you lift a wheel you lose half of that.
Then when the wheel is up, if you compress the outside wheel more the bar will try to twist against another spring now behaving as two springs in series which has another dramatic effect on the bars rate. And considering the bar from static ride has 30% (my car has this, most of you are probably at least this too) to 60% (this is OEM contribution), even with half the rate (again, losing half the displacement per force) its still not insignificant with the inner springs dangling rate.
So sure, it doesnt do nothing, but it does a fraction of what it did before the wheel lifted. Probably in the 1/4 - 1/3rd range.
Meanwhile your shocks are like WFT man, make up your mind! . This is all why its better to keep ramping up them rear springs.
Dallas, LFB? What does that mean?
Sorry, its long day at work and am tired.
So stock bar with Cusco brackets set to full soft, 70% of OEM stiffness, is "best" so far.
And you get 60mm of roll correction? 50mm from the uprights and 10mm from the arm-extended ball-joint stud?
And rear bar is 25 or 26 mm?
Thing is, your setup is so far away from ours, that I can relate to Balrok's feedback but yours is really way way unique.
I can see 700/900 being nice on track.
I wish you would do some track-events to feel the car in longer radius corners and at higher speeds.
Aug 11, 2020, 07:34 PM
. This is all why its better to keep ramping up them rear springs.
