COBB Plano Evo Dyno Day FEELER
Sep 20, 2009 | 10:28 AM
#212
I have a physics questions for you though. Is it possible that 30psi is producing such a rise in intake temps that its causing a drop in whp (even with the meth)? I understand the taper could lower the whp up top, but I don't see the turbo tapering by itself. What is causing it NOT to hold at the upper rpms? Is it the turbo not able to keep up with the demands of the engine? Or the engine not producing enough exhaust gas energy to make the turbo flow that well in upper rpms?
Let's test this statement Kevin. If you would discount me on a second tune, I will allow you to tune my car with no additional headwork (i.e. cams) and just turn the boost up to 30psi with a 93 octane tune with my car unchanged. I will jump right back on the same dyno and we can see the whp difference and wtq. I'm willing to bet that my whp doesn't go up very much but my torque will.
After that, we can throw the Kelford cams on the car and then retune and throw it back on the dyno. How about it?
Let's test this statement Kevin. If you would discount me on a second tune, I will allow you to tune my car with no additional headwork (i.e. cams) and just turn the boost up to 30psi with a 93 octane tune with my car unchanged. I will jump right back on the same dyno and we can see the whp difference and wtq. I'm willing to bet that my whp doesn't go up very much but my torque will.
After that, we can throw the Kelford cams on the car and then retune and throw it back on the dyno. How about it?
as for tuning the car, if you do a dyno after to show the difference, no problem. bringing the torque up does increase HP though (the two are mathmatically tied), so if your limited to 22psi at 7000rpm, there might not be a big HP difference (although with the 93oct i bet we can get quite a bit more timing, which will increase power).
what boost controller are you using? depending on what it is, it can be easier to bring up the boost at high rpms.
Sep 20, 2009 | 12:18 PM
#215
to the physics question, running more boost does heat the air up, but its still going to be more air, unless your way outside the efficiency curve of the turbo. which the difference of 26psi and 30 psi does not do that. at the most it will be a few % difference in efficency. having the intercooler cools the air down without a loss in pressure (or rather a small drop in pressure) thus an increase in density. the methanol goes one step farther, chemically cooling the air by the latent heat of vaporization when the methanol changes states from a liquid to a gas. this process is more effective then the intercooler. basically with an intercooler and methanol, as long as your not near surging the turbo or near the choking limit, running more boost will flow more air. the efficiency islands don't transition that rapidly where a difference of .3PR throws the air temps off enough to actually lose power.
as for tuning the car, if you do a dyno after to show the difference, no problem. bringing the torque up does increase HP though (the two are mathmatically tied), so if your limited to 22psi at 7000rpm, there might not be a big HP difference (although with the 93oct i bet we can get quite a bit more timing, which will increase power).
what boost controller are you using? depending on what it is, it can be easier to bring up the boost at high rpms.
Lastly, I think the concern that Danny has is believing scenario #2 of a 2 part scenario:
Either
1) His car is down on power and my car is putting down normal whp numbers for a 8 with my mods (a 9 is supposed to yield at most 30whp more than an 8 mod-for-mod in general due to the MIVEC tuning and the larger compressor housing of the 9 turbo).
-- OR --
2) His car is normal on power for a 9 with his mods and my car is putting down more whp than normal for an 8 with my mods.
This is causing the doubt because *if* his car is making typical power for a 9, why would an 8, given the same mods, get higher numbers on the dyno? Kelford cams and 30psi should put my numbers over 367whp even with an 8 compressor housing.
Last edited by BOOSTEZ; Sep 20, 2009 at 12:27 PM.
Sep 20, 2009 | 12:18 PM
#216
Sep 20, 2009 | 12:49 PM
#217
Sep 20, 2009 | 12:50 PM
#218
Sep 20, 2009 | 12:52 PM
#219
cant do it the first saturday of october, its the NASA track day at eagles canyon. i want to go to get the time trial license, assuming of course the yellow beast doesn't break at the evo track day 
Sep 20, 2009 | 01:52 PM
#220
No. I have the 10.5 hotside but that's still not enough to make the car stand out (which is why I didn't even include it as a mod). FWIW, I still have the stock O2 housing.
Last edited by BOOSTEZ; Sep 20, 2009 at 02:00 PM.
Sep 20, 2009 | 01:52 PM
#221
Sep 20, 2009 | 04:20 PM
#223
I just looked at your dyno graph. You peaked at 28.8psi of boost, so you didn't have a leak then. Your boost did fall off very quickly - but so did mine.
No. I have the 10.5 hotside but that's still not enough to make the car stand out (which is why I didn't even include it as a mod). FWIW, I still have the stock O2 housing.
No. I have the 10.5 hotside but that's still not enough to make the car stand out (which is why I didn't even include it as a mod). FWIW, I still have the stock O2 housing.
Sep 20, 2009 | 07:41 PM
#224
I made 449 whp and 370ish tq on Alamo's dyno when I was using autronics. Then about four or five months later on Gothams dyno I made 437whp and 345 tq at the same boost level (23 lbs), same mods, and same crappy autronics. I also had very little differences in power going from the dyno at FIS to the one at Alamo a few years ago. I just never liked how on the dyno at Alamo a persons front wheels would stop spinning but the rear wheels would continue to spin for a second or two it seemed