Optimus

Is the establishment staying open to the public during your meets? (see options below) Open to the public is open to the public only the manager or the owner can change this

Yes - then what xturdfergusonx and I elaborated on stands... you can't force someone off property that is open to the public regardless of what you have agreed upon by the manager for your group... open to the public is open to the public again nuff said

No - then you feel free to exercise your rights as free working rent-a-cops... and I won't come to your naziesque meets. I have enough rules and regulations to follow while im on duty I don't need your makeshift laws that will have more loopholes than swiss cheese... too many people these days carry weapons and I don't need to nor does anyone else need to be shot or stabbed because you attempted to manhandle someone out of your Krispy Kreme parking. (just another what if)

I don't mean to insult anyone idea's or whatever by calling them naziesque but this is what it is coming down to... I understand that your looking out for other's safety but isn't that what the police are for? Your attempting to root out the riff raff as i'll call them to ensure the safety and security of your lot but your putting way more effort in than needed... work smarter not harder.... if you want to remove the trouble makers. Short and sweet version = let the district manager what is going on... then get a hold of the police inform them of the agreement with KK for your group(rules within your group can vary), now inform the cops that you can pretty much automatically assume these wannabe fast and the furious kids are gonna show.. have the cops waiting if they can... the kids get arrested enough they lose their license less work on your side... your group won't be hassled with getting removed cuz your already at an agreement with KK if ppl show up that aren't causing problems and are patrons of KK then you shouldn't have to worry about them..

From what I am reading from responses and comments are that you are trying to weed out anyone that refuses to be part of your group or organization. If this is the case which it is very apparent it is... Just because Jimmy Smith(i apologize if your name is the same) shows up in a Honda Civic pimped to the max with APC parts and a wing that is worth more than the car and he wants to get some donuts and check out other cars (assuming he does nothing stupid) then why bother removing him?

Just another thing to think about - does the district manager own the land or is it leased... if it is leased then you must contact the leaser in this case and obtain rights to the facilities provided during the times... because in this case its just like living in an Apt. You can't make a major change to the place or rent out your apt to other people without the leaser's knowledge and approval. So the district manager may run the store but your using the land for large gathering of people and vehicles so if the land is leased you could be SOL as far as working with the DM(district manager) and the leaser could be responsible if anything happens.

When Team Lancer was still around we tried this and the manager at the time said we must contact the land owner.... just something else to think about. But this was close to 3 years ago so most likely the lease for that spot has changed hands.

Optimus

I apologize for constantly pointing out the bad things about this... but the good things have been stated concerning safety and security of those not involved with all the asshatery that may or may not come about...

Its a great idea but you really have to work out every finest of details because yes you want a close spot and a local spot and noone wants to drive half way across the state to go to a meet in the middle of nowhere... or maybe you do who knows

Im just putting stuff out there the more I think about it.

as I stated in my last post you should still respect those that aren't causing trouble regardless of your agreement because even though they drive a beater or a car that's wing cost more than the car itself they are there for the same reasons you are --- The cars, The donuts, The atmosphere,

I came to KK back when the cops rolled through and as long as everyone was cool they didn't care hell we even parked in the Toys R' Us and the Sears lot sometimes and the didn't mind as long as you weren't causing any trouble... then again i seen a kid pulled out of his RX-7 by his shirt after drifting across the lot cops drifting right after him. After that was over the cops rolled off with some new paperwork to do but they still didn't ask any of us to leave!

Mr. Furley

iTrader: (1)

I miss you Chewbacca.

deathinacan

iTrader: (1)

the land is leased through kk, and each manager during the night is responsible for the property/premisis.

I'm not against anyone that is just showing up, eating some doughnuts, and walking around for a bit - Its when they are there, and are congregating in the area for more than 20 minutes is when we request that they go ahead and sign the form to mitigate their ability to stay on the property with the rest of the people.

Rules are rules, and making sure everyone is on the same page is essentially what we are trying to accomplish. If we make an agreement with KK, and the police department, then let things slide for one or two people... that violates our agreement and makes the organization go down the drain.

Working out details regarding Identifying which cars/individuals that are not allowed on the premisis, or in other words, those that refuse to sign the agreement or repeatedly cause trouble (regardless if they are patrons or not), then they will need to leave the parking lot, or be escorted off by police -

If they are eating doughnuts, or drinking coffee, thats great. Finish the food and they can be on their way.

Kor

Mirage4g93

Again I like the reasoning but I would just reiterate. Be cautious cause the line you are walking on with that is so very thin. I wouldn't put it past some idiot to try and file a suit

xturdfergusonx

iTrader: (9)

You raise a very good point here too.



Sorry if I went off so hard in my post a few ago. This all just seems like alot of work, ALOT. I understand the main goal is to keep it safe and put the liability where it belongs. In the hands of the adults that are partaking in these so called "meets".....

I just can't stress enough about how much easier it might be to move this smaller group who want to sign this so called statement to another location, rather than try to irradicate the larger group that is also attending. However you want to label them(highschoolers, asshats, ricers, blah, blah, blah.) But it just seems to be this endless cycle. Kids act like kids, giving everyone a bad name, we hate them, but the cops hate us all. So why not start somewhere fresh, a new enviroment that is free from the crap, let the appropriate channels know this and show them what you guys can do as adults. Responsibly gather and assemble without the worry of things going awry.

Secondly, I get the feeling that passed judgement also plays a small role in part of this.

Optimus

Your still riding on the point of your agreement that you have with the manager... yes the manager leases the land but that doesn't make him the owner. If anything would come to lawsuits or what not in the end the land owner is responsible. If someone gets hurt on the property and it could have been prevented then the land owner is at fault.

Again if the property is staying open to the public during the time your there your agreement means absolutely nothing to ppl that haven't signed.

So basically your saying that if someone pulls up and decides they want to chill there for a little while(regardless of vehicle)... completely null and void to the whole auto enthusiast going on you will ask them to leave? If you ask them to leave then you are contradicting the agreement as you are bothering customers that aren't involved with what is going on whether they stay there 2 min or 20 min or if they decided to stay longer(which most ppl in this state would do because they aren't exactly nice 100% of the time). I'm pretty sure the manager wouldn't be willing to ask his own customers to leave, that would just be stupid and would probably cause him to lose future business.

As I said before the only way to kill any and all possible loopholes in your agreement is to have KK close down the lot for you during that time. Otherwise you can't do what your intending to do, legally... Regardless of an agreement with the manager or not.

hanahawaiian

iTrader: (10)

i dont care... Cops do nothing.. they didnt arrest me last time.. When cop came and all ricers voom vom run away. i just stand by my Evo and watch Cop. and Cop drive by me and Smile at me. lol.. he like playin with ricers... peek boo!

Optimus

thats what they did the last time ... those so many years ago LOL(really only like 3). The Team lancer guys and I just stood there and kept bsing... i think i actually walked up and told the cop his headlight was out.. he said thanks and told me to have a good night!

then it started to get really freaking cold and we all left

deathinacan

iTrader: (1)

All things considered, you have taken the hypothetical reasoning way beyond my level.

If you would like to discuss this elsewhere, please pm me and we can take this thread back on topic.

--- Making decals this wednesday, I will submit the final design wednesday night - more than likely all logo's will be stickers on top of magnets so you can remove them easily once the meet is over. Cost is already taken cared of, so the only requirement is signing to the pre-designated agreements.

Kory

outlaws69

iTrader: (4)

can a brother just hang out and not get arrested... what the hell is going on here

raiceboi697

iTrader: (42)

drama, oh drama....i love the northwest

hanahawaiian

iTrader: (10)

haha james.. i will be there KK on friday.. but im going do nothing.. just hang with friends

haze1995

iTrader: (21)

Okie, time for me to chime in here. The paperwork is just that. Its just a form for the management at the establishment to get the warm and fuzzy to let people "hang out" in their parking lot. If you dont want to sign it then dont. You arent going to hurt anyones feelings.

The idea here is to get the asshats that do burnouts and drift in the parking lot to show some TACT and be responsible for once

I for one dont like driving all the way up there only to be asked to leave 10 minutes after I get there. I am pretty sure that there are better "spots" to do burnouts and drift than the KK parking lot? Everyone always preaches keep it at the track, well thats what is in a nutshell trying to be accomplished here. Come and hang out. But when the asshat hits the fan and the cops tell everyone to go home and you arent signed up to be there, be prepared to leave. Everyone is thinking too deep into this and blowing it out of proportion.That is all.

codgi

iTrader: (22)

^^ I don't think so Ry. I think what has been blown out of proportion is the amount of work that has gone into something that I (and others who seem to think along the same lines) just can't see succeeding in the long run. It sounds great on paper, but I'll have to see this work in the long run.

Credit to Kory for trying this, but I'm not sure about the execution. Seems to me (as suggested above), the best bet is to just find the various people who are like minded (i.e don't do silly stuff in parking lots) and set up a place to meet with them every week (if you must, cause I personally find that a bit much but to each their own). Maybe move it around a bit or whatever that way. There's a saying "birds of a feather flock together" so chances are they know other people like them and they can bring them out and so on and so forth.

I really don't see how signing anything stops anything, besides the point that the troublemakers won't sign, will still come to KK anyway, buy something (to become a customer) and do whatever they wanted to do in the first place. And the "safety officer" thing....better hope its really only little kids causing trouble out at these things in future and not grown men/women.

I'm also concerned about the time thing....so if I come and hang around for 21 mins...am I going to be booted off the property? Whos timing the people to see if they are hanging around or not? What if I go and buy something from KK every 19 mins for example...does that reset my time their as a legitimate customer who you cannot evict from the property? Who choose 20 mins are a abitrary time? Etc. Etc. Etc. I know it seems like I am picking on the loopholes here, but its what I do for a job so I tend to be very critical.

Anyway, no need to dump on this anymore. Best of luck with this and I'll watch this from afar .