Clutch and flywheel opinions by locals.
Apr 1, 2011, 10:54 AM
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Clutch and flywheel opinions by locals.
Sup fellas?
I wanted to get some advise on a clutch choices for my new goals. Don't be mistaken, I have done a bit of clutch research and had a set choice for a time being. That choice being the Exedy Twin. I have driven the Exedy twin on Daniels (dsc_evo8) 560whp Evo VIII and I like it alot (I'm the type who doesn't mind grabby, high pedal pressure clutches). However, funds are tight with a wedding and a baby on the way so spending over $2K on a clutch and flywheel + install isnt an option at this point. Im looking for cheaper yet still reliable alternatives. I also wouldn't mind keeping the car a lil' more quiet by sticking with a single disk.
Now I should probably note my new goals (which doesn't really defer from my old goal that much). My old goal was around 500whp, mostly drag with a bit of track time, and easy pedal pressure was a must for the wife to drive. Some things have changed and now my wife is most partial to the S2000 now. She feels more comfortable in it since its smaller and she finds it easier to drive (thats okay because Im partial to the Evo).
So with that said, no need for a girly clutch anymore. Another change is that since Sunday, I've gotten bit by the track bug big time since Sundays Auto X event. Im now aiming at doing more track time and less drag time. HP goal is still similar, 450-500whp range.
I'd also like suggestions on whether to keep the stock flywheel or suggestions on aftermarket flywheels.
Goal Cliff Notes:
- Pedal pressure not an issue, smooth engagement and slippability a plus.
- More track time than drag time (car still DD'd)
- Retain stock flywheel or opt for aftermarket?
- Price goal for clutch is $1200 installed by ER or less
I've looked into ACT HD/street disk combos but the lockout issue is making me weary of choosing that clutch (even though I never had issues on ACT 2600's in DSM's). Would the ACT chromoly flywheel be a good choice?
I wanted to get some advise on a clutch choices for my new goals. Don't be mistaken, I have done a bit of clutch research and had a set choice for a time being. That choice being the Exedy Twin. I have driven the Exedy twin on Daniels (dsc_evo8) 560whp Evo VIII and I like it alot (I'm the type who doesn't mind grabby, high pedal pressure clutches). However, funds are tight with a wedding and a baby on the way so spending over $2K on a clutch and flywheel + install isnt an option at this point. Im looking for cheaper yet still reliable alternatives. I also wouldn't mind keeping the car a lil' more quiet by sticking with a single disk.
Now I should probably note my new goals (which doesn't really defer from my old goal that much). My old goal was around 500whp, mostly drag with a bit of track time, and easy pedal pressure was a must for the wife to drive. Some things have changed and now my wife is most partial to the S2000 now. She feels more comfortable in it since its smaller and she finds it easier to drive (thats okay because Im partial to the Evo).
So with that said, no need for a girly clutch anymore. Another change is that since Sunday, I've gotten bit by the track bug big time since Sundays Auto X event. Im now aiming at doing more track time and less drag time. HP goal is still similar, 450-500whp range.I'd also like suggestions on whether to keep the stock flywheel or suggestions on aftermarket flywheels.
Goal Cliff Notes:
- Pedal pressure not an issue, smooth engagement and slippability a plus.
- More track time than drag time (car still DD'd)
- Retain stock flywheel or opt for aftermarket?
- Price goal for clutch is $1200 installed by ER or less
I've looked into ACT HD/street disk combos but the lockout issue is making me weary of choosing that clutch (even though I never had issues on ACT 2600's in DSM's). Would the ACT chromoly flywheel be a good choice?
Last edited by D Grade; Apr 1, 2011 at 11:27 AM.
Apr 1, 2011, 12:09 PM
#2
i dont know much about clutches either. but i am running a Exedy Stage 2 with Fidanza light wheight flywheel and i love it. but i dont have the Hp like most of you guys do. i was goin to get the ACT Clutch but didnt want to spend alot. plus i had my cousin tj and my friend Samson install my clutch. i wanted to stick to OEM as much as possible.
Apr 1, 2011, 01:00 PM
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Flywheel info from TRE: http://www.teamrip.com/flywheel%20info.html
Choosing a clutch by TRE: http://www.teamrip.com/choosing_the_...utch_info.html
Please note his input on the Evo transmission/clutch:
The EVO is a production version of Mitsubishi's famed rally car and while many people tend to think of it as the ultimate drag racer it was clearly not designed for it. While 5 speed transmission is very capable, having a fatigue limit around 375t.lbs of torque, you will want to be careful when you dump the clutch because the strain that is placed on the drivetrain can fatigue critical parts. These parts are: 1st gear, input shaft and transfer shaft. Just don't dump the clutch too aggressively and you'll be fine. Also, keep in mind that more is not always better; using a clutch that is capable of holding way more torque than what need will only reduce the service life of the gearing. I recommend using a clutch that holds no more than 535ft.lbs of torque due to the limitations of the rest of the drivetrain. Why? Because the big pressure angle that is used on 1st gear creates tremendous radial thrust load and tends to pound the needle bearing sleeve to hell and beat the bearing bores in the case out of round. Eventually 1st gear gets noisy and at worst the transmission case breaks out around the pinion bearing destroying the transmission. Here's something to keep in mind.... there are lots of parts in the EVO drivetrain that will fail around the same torque level and you can avoid these problems by simply choosing a clutch that holds no more than 535ft.lbs of torque and not dumping the clutch too aggressively if using a clutch that has a higher torque rating. Shockloading a set of gears with excess torque will severely reduce the number of cycles before the teeth fail and must be kept to a minimum. Sure you can use a clutch that holds more power but expect fatigue related failures sooner.
Hope this helps you.... I read all of his FAQ's prior to ordering my transmission/clutch/flywheel.... Should be installed in a few weeks!
Choosing a clutch by TRE: http://www.teamrip.com/choosing_the_...utch_info.html
Please note his input on the Evo transmission/clutch:
The EVO is a production version of Mitsubishi's famed rally car and while many people tend to think of it as the ultimate drag racer it was clearly not designed for it. While 5 speed transmission is very capable, having a fatigue limit around 375t.lbs of torque, you will want to be careful when you dump the clutch because the strain that is placed on the drivetrain can fatigue critical parts. These parts are: 1st gear, input shaft and transfer shaft. Just don't dump the clutch too aggressively and you'll be fine. Also, keep in mind that more is not always better; using a clutch that is capable of holding way more torque than what need will only reduce the service life of the gearing. I recommend using a clutch that holds no more than 535ft.lbs of torque due to the limitations of the rest of the drivetrain. Why? Because the big pressure angle that is used on 1st gear creates tremendous radial thrust load and tends to pound the needle bearing sleeve to hell and beat the bearing bores in the case out of round. Eventually 1st gear gets noisy and at worst the transmission case breaks out around the pinion bearing destroying the transmission. Here's something to keep in mind.... there are lots of parts in the EVO drivetrain that will fail around the same torque level and you can avoid these problems by simply choosing a clutch that holds no more than 535ft.lbs of torque and not dumping the clutch too aggressively if using a clutch that has a higher torque rating. Shockloading a set of gears with excess torque will severely reduce the number of cycles before the teeth fail and must be kept to a minimum. Sure you can use a clutch that holds more power but expect fatigue related failures sooner.
Hope this helps you.... I read all of his FAQ's prior to ordering my transmission/clutch/flywheel.... Should be installed in a few weeks!
Apr 1, 2011, 02:07 PM
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Thanks for the Exedy recommendation. They seem to be one of the favorites whether its a single or twin disk. 
Ryan, excellent article and thanks for sharing that. I knew the stock transmission had limits but I wasn't sure of the hp/ft lbs area to be concerned with. I don't wanna build a transmission (or an engine for that matter), I simply want an aftermarket clutch and possibly flywheel. Knowing the 535ft lbs figure will definitly help choose a clutch as I certainly don't plan on making that much torque (let alone hp).
I will read the TRE article tonight. Thanks again for that.
Ryan, excellent article and thanks for sharing that. I knew the stock transmission had limits but I wasn't sure of the hp/ft lbs area to be concerned with. I don't wanna build a transmission (or an engine for that matter), I simply want an aftermarket clutch and possibly flywheel. Knowing the 535ft lbs figure will definitly help choose a clutch as I certainly don't plan on making that much torque (let alone hp).
I will read the TRE article tonight. Thanks again for that.
Apr 1, 2011, 04:38 PM
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I would suggest trying to find an exedy twin used and rebuild it. The exedy is really the way to go. If I knew you needed I clutch, I would have held onto the ams push style exedy twin I had. 90% life left and I sold it for $900.
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Apr 1, 2011, 04:42 PM
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I had to wait until I got home to respond to this... just too much to say to do it on my iPhone lol.
So your goals are some autocross, some drag (?), DD, and 500whp. And you want to spend no more than 1200. Installed. That limits your options A LOT.
Clutch and flywheel for my RR cost me 900 from MAP, and it was an ACT HDSS with ACT Streetlite, which is the basically just one step above stock. Installed, even that runs you 1400.
Along the lines of that TRE statement (and I'd love R/T to chip in), John is adamantly against twin disc clutches. He says they put undue wear on the synchros due to the extra mass that has to be sped up and slowed down during shifts. But, physics is not with them when it comes to high rpm shifts. The reduced moment of inertia is what allows the twin's to shift like butter, even at 9k, which is pretty important for a car on the track, but you also have to assume a car made for the track will be maintained better than a street only car, and you will also expect things to wear out faster, so the twin can be justified.
If you're really trying to keep prices down, a twin is out though. There is no way to get a new one installed for less than 1600 or so, and the clutch in my car was 1600 shipped, so it woulda been 2100 installed.
Anyway, what you need to know is that, the twin has better peddle feel, shifts better, holds more power, and rev's faster than a single. The single is cheaper, and in the case of my HDSS, drives just like the stock clutch other than a slightly heavier peddle. I haven't driven the car hard enough to know if it is going to have lockout, as it seems to be hit or miss weather people have issues with it. If you're more interested in feeling how it is or whatever, you're more than welcome to come over and drive it.
So your goals are some autocross, some drag (?), DD, and 500whp. And you want to spend no more than 1200. Installed. That limits your options A LOT.
Clutch and flywheel for my RR cost me 900 from MAP, and it was an ACT HDSS with ACT Streetlite, which is the basically just one step above stock. Installed, even that runs you 1400.
Along the lines of that TRE statement (and I'd love R/T to chip in), John is adamantly against twin disc clutches. He says they put undue wear on the synchros due to the extra mass that has to be sped up and slowed down during shifts. But, physics is not with them when it comes to high rpm shifts. The reduced moment of inertia is what allows the twin's to shift like butter, even at 9k, which is pretty important for a car on the track, but you also have to assume a car made for the track will be maintained better than a street only car, and you will also expect things to wear out faster, so the twin can be justified.
If you're really trying to keep prices down, a twin is out though. There is no way to get a new one installed for less than 1600 or so, and the clutch in my car was 1600 shipped, so it woulda been 2100 installed.
Anyway, what you need to know is that, the twin has better peddle feel, shifts better, holds more power, and rev's faster than a single. The single is cheaper, and in the case of my HDSS, drives just like the stock clutch other than a slightly heavier peddle. I haven't driven the car hard enough to know if it is going to have lockout, as it seems to be hit or miss weather people have issues with it. If you're more interested in feeling how it is or whatever, you're more than welcome to come over and drive it.
Apr 1, 2011, 09:14 PM
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I had to wait until I got home to respond to this... just too much to say to do it on my iPhone lol.
So your goals are some autocross, some drag (?), DD, and 500whp. And you want to spend no more than 1200. Installed. That limits your options A LOT.
Clutch and flywheel for my RR cost me 900 from MAP, and it was an ACT HDSS with ACT Streetlite, which is the basically just one step above stock. Installed, even that runs you 1400.
Along the lines of that TRE statement (and I'd love R/T to chip in), John is adamantly against twin disc clutches. He says they put undue wear on the synchros due to the extra mass that has to be sped up and slowed down during shifts. But, physics is not with them when it comes to high rpm shifts. The reduced moment of inertia is what allows the twin's to shift like butter, even at 9k, which is pretty important for a car on the track, but you also have to assume a car made for the track will be maintained better than a street only car, and you will also expect things to wear out faster, so the twin can be justified.
If you're really trying to keep prices down, a twin is out though. There is no way to get a new one installed for less than 1600 or so, and the clutch in my car was 1600 shipped, so it woulda been 2100 installed.
Anyway, what you need to know is that, the twin has better peddle feel, shifts better, holds more power, and rev's faster than a single. The single is cheaper, and in the case of my HDSS, drives just like the stock clutch other than a slightly heavier peddle. I haven't driven the car hard enough to know if it is going to have lockout, as it seems to be hit or miss weather people have issues with it. If you're more interested in feeling how it is or whatever, you're more than welcome to come over and drive it.
So your goals are some autocross, some drag (?), DD, and 500whp. And you want to spend no more than 1200. Installed. That limits your options A LOT.
Clutch and flywheel for my RR cost me 900 from MAP, and it was an ACT HDSS with ACT Streetlite, which is the basically just one step above stock. Installed, even that runs you 1400.
Along the lines of that TRE statement (and I'd love R/T to chip in), John is adamantly against twin disc clutches. He says they put undue wear on the synchros due to the extra mass that has to be sped up and slowed down during shifts. But, physics is not with them when it comes to high rpm shifts. The reduced moment of inertia is what allows the twin's to shift like butter, even at 9k, which is pretty important for a car on the track, but you also have to assume a car made for the track will be maintained better than a street only car, and you will also expect things to wear out faster, so the twin can be justified.
If you're really trying to keep prices down, a twin is out though. There is no way to get a new one installed for less than 1600 or so, and the clutch in my car was 1600 shipped, so it woulda been 2100 installed.
Anyway, what you need to know is that, the twin has better peddle feel, shifts better, holds more power, and rev's faster than a single. The single is cheaper, and in the case of my HDSS, drives just like the stock clutch other than a slightly heavier peddle. I haven't driven the car hard enough to know if it is going to have lockout, as it seems to be hit or miss weather people have issues with it. If you're more interested in feeling how it is or whatever, you're more than welcome to come over and drive it.
You drag and AutoX/track dont ya Ben? Hows that clutch for drag racing and/or high rpms pulls?
Apr 1, 2011, 11:27 PM
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Just get a twin disk *****. You will regret it if you dont. Ive had the act on my car at 370/370 and even then I had trouble with the lockout. You always tell me not to half *** ****, just save up and you will be so much happier
Apr 1, 2011, 11:34 PM
#13
I've had the Act XTSD for 7 road race events, few misc. canyon runs, few launches, and 50k miles and it's still holding up. I have a lock issue with it around 7,500rpm but it doesn't bug me since I never shift that high(often), and I have never bothered to adjust the clutch pedal 
Apr 1, 2011, 11:45 PM
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The clutch held up for awhile but it just didnt like the high rpm shifting. I went through two act clutches and both of them gave me problems in the higher rpms
Apr 2, 2011, 09:31 AM
#15
If you are sticking with stock cams and turbo then the ACT HDSS is a perfect choice. The only reason to rev a stock cam/turbo setup higher than 7k is if you need over rev capacity for say autox where its better to just stay in 2nd longer than shifting up then back down.
Otherwise the ACT should shift just fine at 7k.
Otherwise the ACT should shift just fine at 7k.