R/TErnie's Evo 9 2.2L 4G64 EFR7670
Sep 21, 2012, 08:46 AM
#781
^ you mean that you contaminate your oil with ethanol and you wipe out your bearings? I change my oil pretty frequently. I'd say too often, but o change it before and after any track time or significant abuse. I don't think I've ever gone a 1000 miles on an oil change while running e85.
How do you explain your failure mode? When the oil gets hot the ethanol evaporates, gets pushed through the -10 vents and then condenses in the lines or the catch can and dies not drain back.
I'd say I'm guilty of not having 2 air filters on my catch can. Although I have not logged my catch can pressure OR my crank case pressure, so I don't really know what's going on. I do know that Palo has logged these things and he has 3 breather filters...
I'd rather not suck in oil vapors into my intake tract. It lowers my effective octane And makes a mess of my intercooler and piping... My old turbo 1st gens did this.
How did you come to the conclusion that you were failing rod/main bearings from not using a suction on your catch can? Sounds more like oil starvation and/or too much cylinder pressure. I assume the tic racecar is fully equipped with data aq? I'm interested to hear how you can to this conclusion.
How do you explain your failure mode? When the oil gets hot the ethanol evaporates, gets pushed through the -10 vents and then condenses in the lines or the catch can and dies not drain back.
I'd say I'm guilty of not having 2 air filters on my catch can. Although I have not logged my catch can pressure OR my crank case pressure, so I don't really know what's going on. I do know that Palo has logged these things and he has 3 breather filters...
I'd rather not suck in oil vapors into my intake tract. It lowers my effective octane And makes a mess of my intercooler and piping... My old turbo 1st gens did this.
How did you come to the conclusion that you were failing rod/main bearings from not using a suction on your catch can? Sounds more like oil starvation and/or too much cylinder pressure. I assume the tic racecar is fully equipped with data aq? I'm interested to hear how you can to this conclusion.
Sep 21, 2012, 09:57 AM
#782
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^ you mean that you contaminate your oil with ethanol and you wipe out your bearings? I change my oil pretty frequently. I'd say too often, but o change it before and after any track time or significant abuse. I don't think I've ever gone a 1000 miles on an oil change while running e85.
How do you explain your failure mode? When the oil gets hot the ethanol evaporates, gets pushed through the -10 vents and then condenses in the lines or the catch can and dies not drain back.
I'd say I'm guilty of not having 2 air filters on my catch can. Although I have not logged my catch can pressure OR my crank case pressure, so I don't really know what's going on. I do know that Palo has logged these things and he has 3 breather filters...
I'd rather not suck in oil vapors into my intake tract. It lowers my effective octane And makes a mess of my intercooler and piping... My old turbo 1st gens did this.
How did you come to the conclusion that you were failing rod/main bearings from not using a suction on your catch can? Sounds more like oil starvation and/or too much cylinder pressure. I assume the tic racecar is fully equipped with data aq? I'm interested to hear how you can to this conclusion.
How do you explain your failure mode? When the oil gets hot the ethanol evaporates, gets pushed through the -10 vents and then condenses in the lines or the catch can and dies not drain back.
I'd say I'm guilty of not having 2 air filters on my catch can. Although I have not logged my catch can pressure OR my crank case pressure, so I don't really know what's going on. I do know that Palo has logged these things and he has 3 breather filters...
I'd rather not suck in oil vapors into my intake tract. It lowers my effective octane And makes a mess of my intercooler and piping... My old turbo 1st gens did this.
How did you come to the conclusion that you were failing rod/main bearings from not using a suction on your catch can? Sounds more like oil starvation and/or too much cylinder pressure. I assume the tic racecar is fully equipped with data aq? I'm interested to hear how you can to this conclusion.
This is Clint from TiC posting under Brad's account.
Lets go through all of this.
We have a series of catch cans to catch oil vapor an alcohol vapor. The alcohol vapor being very important as we don't want that diluting the oil. I think you'll agree with me on this point.
We choose to use a vacuum source at the end of the catch cans to help evacuate even more of that vapor instead of relying solely upon crankcase pressurization to push the vapor out. At this point in time lets ignore what we're using to pull a vacuum, and I think you'll still be agreeing with me.
Now, we choose to use a vacuum because we were worried about cold start. Here's why - when the motor is cold or coldish we did not want ANY alcohol condensed in the oil. Granted there's no way that's going to happen, BUT it can be greatly reduced. We found a good way to reduce it is to get as much of the alcohol vapor out of the oil when the engine we PREVIOUSLY hot, and a good way to do that was by using a vacuum on the system instead of relying upon pressurizing the crank case. I hope this one makes sense as well.
Now, lets throw in the vacuum source we are using. We are doing it from venting the catch cans to in front of the turbo. It is ideal? No. Absolutely not. Personally, I hate it, BUT it IS available readily and free. The alternative would be much much nicer in that we ran a separate vacuum pump on it constantly. Not only to suck the vapors out even more efficiently, but also create vacuum all the time in the crank case to help with ring sealing. Sadly, that was not in the budgets of time or money for this season.
As for how bad is it to not pull a vacuum, it can be rather bad. We've seen it happen. In one case it cost the other team a $20,000 short block. While they did have catch cans they were not pulling a vacuum on the system. We warned them about it. They told us to **** off. Next event they weren't there because they were replacing the bottom end due to washing out all the bearing surfaces.
Now, with that being said I cannot speak as to what oil they were using or even how often they were changing it. I will say this though - the next event we saw them at they were pulling a vacuum on those cans, and they didn't wash out any more bearings after that.
Sep 21, 2012, 10:44 AM
#783
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all that being said I agree with you that a vacuum assisted setup will be better than my setup with regards to removing ethanol from the oil. I currently change my oil between 500-700 miles. I run 10w40 AMO or 20w50 zrod amsoil and I'm more than religous about checking it. Changing the location AND the design of the catch can is on the chopping block now, and I'm certain that it WILL be different than it is now. Before I make "improvements" I'd like to data log the crankcase pressure AND the catch can pressure so I can quantify the current status of the system and the improvement of the system based on actual datalogs. Something else to think about... when the oil temp is 178 deg F... all the ethanol is vaporized. At oil temps in the 230-240 degree range you can rest assured that ALL of the ethanol has vaporized and is NO longer a fluid being mixed with the oil in the crankcase. So once the engine is at operating temperate all the ethanol has been vaporized... less the new stuff coming past the rings. So my question I pose to you is... at 230+ deg F oil temps how is it that you're able to get ethanol past the rings, settle in the sump, get sucked into the pick up, and through the oil pump, and be pressurized to the bearings to the point at which the ability of the oil to protect the bearings is degraded significantly enough to wipe a bearing? When that small bit of alochol hits the 3-4 quarts of oil in the sump at 200+ deg F.... I don't suspect it will take long for that to become vapors and work it's way out of the crankcase. It won't condense on the inside of the block since the block is at 190 deg F or so (still above the boiling point of ethanol) Now I'm sure my assumptions aren't 100% as well as I'm sure not all the components of E85 are vapors at 200+ deg F, but I would assume for a large part this is true. I'm open to hear counter arguements and I'd honestly prefer it as this is my understanding.
I know that Tony Palo has spent a fair bit of time on his crankcase ventilation system on his Integra (granted it's a drag car), and his previous iterations did not have it recirced into the intake pipe, but 3 filters to vent properly. I know he's been using a LOT of sensors to dial in his system, don't know that he would share the information to be public. But I'll be sure and ask him
I agree also that the vacuum pump would be great, but adds complexity and weight to the car.... not to mention it's expensive for what it does. A dry sump would be a better implementation of the same system, but is far more expensive.
Have you instrumented your crankcase or your catch can...or your intake pipe to see what kinds of pressures are at each location?
Have you been doing oil analysis to determine your oil contamination levels before and after doing this?
I hate to nay say so much, but I think the way in which we come to conclusions is just as important as the conclusion.
Hey,
This is Clint from TiC posting under Brad's account.
Hey Clint, thanks for taking the time
Lets go through all of this.
We have a series of catch cans to catch oil vapor an alcohol vapor. The alcohol vapor being very important as we don't want that diluting the oil. I think you'll agree with me on this point.
You have 2 parallel catch cans on a Subaru? one from each cylinder head? Or you have 2 catch cans in series? Mind sharing how they're plumbed if they're in series? More or less a double perc? Yes I did some glass blowing in college. YES I AGREE.
We choose to use a vacuum source at the end of the catch cans to help evacuate even more of that vapor instead of relying solely upon crankcase pressurization to push the vapor out. At this point in time lets ignore what we're using to pull a vacuum, and I think you'll still be agreeing with me.
YUP STILL AGREE
Now, we choose to use a vacuum because we were worried about cold start. Here's why - when the motor is cold or coldish we did not want ANY alcohol condensed in the oil.
Yeah
Granted there's no way that's going to happen, BUT it can be greatly reduced. We found a good way to reduce it is to get as much of the alcohol vapor out of the oil when the engine we PREVIOUSLY hot,
Do you mean was previously hot? I know... correcting you after my terrible iphone text corrected post above...
and a good way to do that was by using a vacuum on the system instead of relying upon pressurizing the crank case. I hope this one makes sense as well.
Makes sense that you're evacuating the ethanol vapor at idle and in vacuum situations, not just while you're in boost. Should prove to remove more alcohol than my method.
Now, lets throw in the vacuum source we are using. We are doing it from venting the catch cans to in front of the turbo. It is ideal? No. Absolutely not.
It's effectiveness depends on how much vacuum you have between your inlet and your air filter. Unless you're using a venturi/ slash cut. I have a huge air filter on the car for the specific purpose to drop the pre-compressor restriction.
Personally, I hate it, BUT it IS available readily and free. The alternative would be much much nicer in that we ran a separate vacuum pump on it constantly. Not only to suck the vapors out even more efficiently, but also create vacuum all the time in the crank case to help with ring sealing. Sadly, that was not in the budgets of time or money for this season.
Understood.
As for how bad is it to not pull a vacuum, it can be rather bad. We've seen it happen. In one case it cost the other team a $20,000 short block. While they did have catch cans they were not pulling a vacuum on the system. We warned them about it. They told us to **** off. Next event they weren't there because they were replacing the bottom end due to washing out all the bearing surfaces.
Here's where I question your conclusion. I'll assume that you have no engine data from this car, you have no idea how this car was tuned, you have no idea what was going on. You could single out ANY component on the car that was there before and not there after and come to the conclusion that it was the culprit. See my point? It's not a sound engineering conclusion to say that.... AH HA it's the catch can!
Now, with that being said I cannot speak as to what oil they were using or even how often they were changing it. I will say this though - the next event we saw them at they were pulling a vacuum on those cans, and they didn't wash out any more bearings after that.
I think you last paragraph states it well.... an admission of not knowing all the conditions that led to the failure. Which is completely understandable and I'm not trying to be insulting or difficult, but it's hard to draw concrete conclusions with so little data and mostly hearsay.
This is Clint from TiC posting under Brad's account.
Hey Clint, thanks for taking the time
Lets go through all of this.
We have a series of catch cans to catch oil vapor an alcohol vapor. The alcohol vapor being very important as we don't want that diluting the oil. I think you'll agree with me on this point.
You have 2 parallel catch cans on a Subaru? one from each cylinder head? Or you have 2 catch cans in series? Mind sharing how they're plumbed if they're in series? More or less a double perc?
Yes I did some glass blowing in college. YES I AGREE.We choose to use a vacuum source at the end of the catch cans to help evacuate even more of that vapor instead of relying solely upon crankcase pressurization to push the vapor out. At this point in time lets ignore what we're using to pull a vacuum, and I think you'll still be agreeing with me.
YUP STILL AGREE
Now, we choose to use a vacuum because we were worried about cold start. Here's why - when the motor is cold or coldish we did not want ANY alcohol condensed in the oil.
Yeah
Granted there's no way that's going to happen, BUT it can be greatly reduced. We found a good way to reduce it is to get as much of the alcohol vapor out of the oil when the engine we PREVIOUSLY hot,
Do you mean was previously hot? I know... correcting you after my terrible iphone text corrected post above...
and a good way to do that was by using a vacuum on the system instead of relying upon pressurizing the crank case. I hope this one makes sense as well.
Makes sense that you're evacuating the ethanol vapor at idle and in vacuum situations, not just while you're in boost. Should prove to remove more alcohol than my method.
Now, lets throw in the vacuum source we are using. We are doing it from venting the catch cans to in front of the turbo. It is ideal? No. Absolutely not.
It's effectiveness depends on how much vacuum you have between your inlet and your air filter. Unless you're using a venturi/ slash cut. I have a huge air filter on the car for the specific purpose to drop the pre-compressor restriction.
Personally, I hate it, BUT it IS available readily and free. The alternative would be much much nicer in that we ran a separate vacuum pump on it constantly. Not only to suck the vapors out even more efficiently, but also create vacuum all the time in the crank case to help with ring sealing. Sadly, that was not in the budgets of time or money for this season.
Understood.
As for how bad is it to not pull a vacuum, it can be rather bad. We've seen it happen. In one case it cost the other team a $20,000 short block. While they did have catch cans they were not pulling a vacuum on the system. We warned them about it. They told us to **** off. Next event they weren't there because they were replacing the bottom end due to washing out all the bearing surfaces.
Here's where I question your conclusion. I'll assume that you have no engine data from this car, you have no idea how this car was tuned, you have no idea what was going on. You could single out ANY component on the car that was there before and not there after and come to the conclusion that it was the culprit. See my point? It's not a sound engineering conclusion to say that.... AH HA it's the catch can!
Now, with that being said I cannot speak as to what oil they were using or even how often they were changing it. I will say this though - the next event we saw them at they were pulling a vacuum on those cans, and they didn't wash out any more bearings after that.
I think you last paragraph states it well.... an admission of not knowing all the conditions that led to the failure. Which is completely understandable and I'm not trying to be insulting or difficult, but it's hard to draw concrete conclusions with so little data and mostly hearsay.
I know that Tony Palo has spent a fair bit of time on his crankcase ventilation system on his Integra (granted it's a drag car), and his previous iterations did not have it recirced into the intake pipe, but 3 filters to vent properly. I know he's been using a LOT of sensors to dial in his system, don't know that he would share the information to be public. But I'll be sure and ask him
I agree also that the vacuum pump would be great, but adds complexity and weight to the car.... not to mention it's expensive for what it does. A dry sump would be a better implementation of the same system, but is far more expensive.
Have you instrumented your crankcase or your catch can...or your intake pipe to see what kinds of pressures are at each location?
Have you been doing oil analysis to determine your oil contamination levels before and after doing this?
I hate to nay say so much, but I think the way in which we come to conclusions is just as important as the conclusion.
Last edited by R/TErnie; Sep 21, 2012 at 11:00 AM.
Sep 21, 2012, 10:52 AM
#784
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I let Clint handle the answer to that so I didn't give wrong information. I will rephrase my statement in that we don't have EXACT data saying the engine failure was a direct result of not pulling the vacuum using e85. I don't want to be misleading without solid data.
Sep 21, 2012, 11:01 AM
#785
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all that being said I agree with you that a vacuum assisted setup will be better than my setup with regards to removing ethanol from the oil. I currently change my oil between 500-700 miles. I run 10w40 AMO or 20w50 zrod amsoil and I'm more than religous about checking it. Changing the location AND the design of the catch can is on the chopping block now, and I'm certain that it WILL be different than it is now. Before I make "improvements" I'd like to data log the crankcase pressure AND the catch can pressure so I can quantify the current status of the system and the improvement of the system based on actual datalogs. Something else to think about... when the oil temp is 178 deg F... all the ethanol is vaporized. At oil temps in the 230-240 degree range you can rest assured that ALL of the ethanol has vaporized and is NO longer a fluid being mixed with the oil in the crankcase. So once the engine is at operating temperate all the ethanol has been vaporized... less the new stuff coming past the rings.
I know that Tony Palo has spent a fair bit of time on his crankcase ventilation system on his Integra (granted it's a drag car), and his previous iterations did not have it recirced into the intake pipe, but 3 filters to vent properly. I know he's been using a LOT of sensors to dial in his system, don't know that he would share the information to be public. But I'll be sure and ask him
I agree also that the vacuum pump would be great, but adds complexity and weight to the car.... not to mention it's expensive for what it does. A dry sump would be a better implementation of the same system, but is far more expensive.
Have you instrumented your crankcase or your catch can...or your intake pipe to see what kinds of pressures are at each location?
Have you been doing oil analysis to determine your oil contamination levels before and after doing this?
I hate to nay say so much, but I think the way in which we come to conclusions is just as important as the conclusion.
all that being said I agree with you that a vacuum assisted setup will be better than my setup with regards to removing ethanol from the oil. I currently change my oil between 500-700 miles. I run 10w40 AMO or 20w50 zrod amsoil and I'm more than religous about checking it. Changing the location AND the design of the catch can is on the chopping block now, and I'm certain that it WILL be different than it is now. Before I make "improvements" I'd like to data log the crankcase pressure AND the catch can pressure so I can quantify the current status of the system and the improvement of the system based on actual datalogs. Something else to think about... when the oil temp is 178 deg F... all the ethanol is vaporized. At oil temps in the 230-240 degree range you can rest assured that ALL of the ethanol has vaporized and is NO longer a fluid being mixed with the oil in the crankcase. So once the engine is at operating temperate all the ethanol has been vaporized... less the new stuff coming past the rings.
I know that Tony Palo has spent a fair bit of time on his crankcase ventilation system on his Integra (granted it's a drag car), and his previous iterations did not have it recirced into the intake pipe, but 3 filters to vent properly. I know he's been using a LOT of sensors to dial in his system, don't know that he would share the information to be public. But I'll be sure and ask him
I agree also that the vacuum pump would be great, but adds complexity and weight to the car.... not to mention it's expensive for what it does. A dry sump would be a better implementation of the same system, but is far more expensive.
Have you instrumented your crankcase or your catch can...or your intake pipe to see what kinds of pressures are at each location?
Have you been doing oil analysis to determine your oil contamination levels before and after doing this?
I hate to nay say so much, but I think the way in which we come to conclusions is just as important as the conclusion.
We have not data logged, and our catch can system is one that has changed over time based upon experience gained with the car.
I would love to take the time to datalog those points, but alas with a race car things are constantly breaking that take more time and attention from the nice to have and put them on the must have.
Oil analysis is also sadly lacking other than draining and letting sit and checking the separation.
Sep 21, 2012, 12:18 PM
#786
In the 1G DSM the valvecover has a vent from the crankcase that bypasses the baffles. We plugged that and cut the blowby from 3 quarts to 1 quart. There is one more trick we are going to do for the block that should reduce that amount to an ounce from testing others have done. I havent stared at the Evo valvecover but it wouldnt surprise me that it is similar.
The main issue with alcohol in the oil is the cold start and first pass/warm up. I have watched the catch can drain 100% clean, temps in the 160s, go make its first pass and push a quart of ethanol out of the catch can when I check it before the next pass. This happens exactly once per day in all the years we have been running the car. Once the car has gotten over 200 and the oil temps are above 200 its not an issue for whatever reason. This motor runs 6.5 thou PTW as well.
Brad Penn, Royal Purple, etc. trap the E85 on top of the oil that first pass as well, though you can smell contamination in it after the motor has sealed up. We drain that out and replace it anyway so it keeps it to minimum.
As far it taking out bearings we have yet to see that but if it were left unchecked I can forsee it being an issue. My street car is fine at 750whp on E100 though without any special tricks...or catch can for that matter.
The main issue with alcohol in the oil is the cold start and first pass/warm up. I have watched the catch can drain 100% clean, temps in the 160s, go make its first pass and push a quart of ethanol out of the catch can when I check it before the next pass. This happens exactly once per day in all the years we have been running the car. Once the car has gotten over 200 and the oil temps are above 200 its not an issue for whatever reason. This motor runs 6.5 thou PTW as well.
Brad Penn, Royal Purple, etc. trap the E85 on top of the oil that first pass as well, though you can smell contamination in it after the motor has sealed up. We drain that out and replace it anyway so it keeps it to minimum.
As far it taking out bearings we have yet to see that but if it were left unchecked I can forsee it being an issue. My street car is fine at 750whp on E100 though without any special tricks...or catch can for that matter.
Sep 21, 2012, 12:29 PM
#787
In the 1G DSM the valvecover has a vent from the crankcase that bypasses the baffles. We plugged that and cut the blowby from 3 quarts to 1 quart. There is one more trick we are going to do for the block that should reduce that amount to an ounce from testing others have done. I havent stared at the Evo valvecover but it wouldnt surprise me that it is similar.
The main issue with alcohol in the oil is the cold start and first pass/warm up. I have watched the catch can drain 100% clean, temps in the 160s, go make its first pass and push a quart of ethanol out of the catch can when I check it before the next pass. This happens exactly once per day in all the years we have been running the car. Once the car has gotten over 200 and the oil temps are above 200 its not an issue for whatever reason. This motor runs 6.5 thou PTW as well.
Brad Penn, Royal Purple, etc. trap the E85 on top of the oil that first pass as well, though you can smell contamination in it after the motor has sealed up. We drain that out and replace it anyway so it keeps it to minimum.
As far it taking out bearings we have yet to see that but if it were left unchecked I can forsee it being an issue. My street car is fine at 750whp on E100 though without any special tricks...or catch can for that matter.
The main issue with alcohol in the oil is the cold start and first pass/warm up. I have watched the catch can drain 100% clean, temps in the 160s, go make its first pass and push a quart of ethanol out of the catch can when I check it before the next pass. This happens exactly once per day in all the years we have been running the car. Once the car has gotten over 200 and the oil temps are above 200 its not an issue for whatever reason. This motor runs 6.5 thou PTW as well.
Brad Penn, Royal Purple, etc. trap the E85 on top of the oil that first pass as well, though you can smell contamination in it after the motor has sealed up. We drain that out and replace it anyway so it keeps it to minimum.
As far it taking out bearings we have yet to see that but if it were left unchecked I can forsee it being an issue. My street car is fine at 750whp on E100 though without any special tricks...or catch can for that matter.
just to clarify.
You have new oil in the engine.
Cold start the engine and let it warm up.
At 160 deg F (coolant temp) you drain the catch can so it's empty.
Make a first pass down the strip...
Catch can now is full?
So you're stating that all the ethanol contamination is happening during the cold start on fresh oil?
I think an easy way to vent the block and have it be SOMEWHAT baffled would be to use the balance shaft plugged hole on the backside of the block (under the intake manifold) I have mine drilled and tapped to 1/8" NPT IIRC. Which isn't that large, but the location of the hole is great because it is baffled from oil sloshing etc. I could add a line there... or better yet it would be an excellent port for measuring crankcase pressure!
this is why these conversations are amazing! I can measure from one port and use the other as a vent... measure before and after? lots of ideas here.
Aaron,
Also you were saying that you capped of the block breather? Have you considered making an internal snorkel in the block to help oil from getting pushed into your vent?
Thank you both for the contribution
Aaron here's the reason why the catch can is full at 200deg F and not at 160 deg F
Last edited by R/TErnie; Sep 21, 2012 at 12:38 PM.
Sep 21, 2012, 12:55 PM
#788
The volume doesnt change between 160 and 200. The quart of ethanol is what changes.
What I meant was the car is warmed up to 160*F, I have the valve open on the catchcan and am watching it. I close it when the car is leaving the pits to go make a pass. The first pass of the day it will come back and have 1 quart of ethanol and 1-1.5 quarts of oil. It does that once and the next pass it will be just 1-1.5 qts of oil.
The breather we blocked is in the valvecover because it directly bypasses the baffles. After doing that oil drain backs are the currently the oil way for crankcase pressure to exit the block, it hits the baffles, and then goes to the catch can.
Internal snorkel and one other trick will get the oil in the catchcan down to WAY less than a quart.
The reason this motor would have 3 quarts the first pass (2 oil and 1 ethanol) is it setup a little looser than the last one. Ring gap and PTW are set for 1300whp now, which 53psi on the HTA105 and a 100 shot push us near I feel based on what it does at WG line vs last year.
What I meant was the car is warmed up to 160*F, I have the valve open on the catchcan and am watching it. I close it when the car is leaving the pits to go make a pass. The first pass of the day it will come back and have 1 quart of ethanol and 1-1.5 quarts of oil. It does that once and the next pass it will be just 1-1.5 qts of oil.
The breather we blocked is in the valvecover because it directly bypasses the baffles. After doing that oil drain backs are the currently the oil way for crankcase pressure to exit the block, it hits the baffles, and then goes to the catch can.
Internal snorkel and one other trick will get the oil in the catchcan down to WAY less than a quart.
The reason this motor would have 3 quarts the first pass (2 oil and 1 ethanol) is it setup a little looser than the last one. Ring gap and PTW are set for 1300whp now, which 53psi on the HTA105 and a 100 shot push us near I feel based on what it does at WG line vs last year.
Sep 21, 2012, 01:45 PM
#789
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Im curious with all your knowledge, have you vented the block in any way? I don't recall seeing anything besides the valve cover.
For quite some time with our race car we've been running multiple catch cans but with running e85 we find it necessary to pull a vacuum from the catch can. We use the turbo inlet. Without doing so it is dangerous to the engine because the end result is washed out bearings. We have found this to be a problem in other track cars that have resulted in engine failure. We don't drain the cans into the engine though. It may be something you want to look in to.
For quite some time with our race car we've been running multiple catch cans but with running e85 we find it necessary to pull a vacuum from the catch can. We use the turbo inlet. Without doing so it is dangerous to the engine because the end result is washed out bearings. We have found this to be a problem in other track cars that have resulted in engine failure. We don't drain the cans into the engine though. It may be something you want to look in to.
Sep 21, 2012, 03:54 PM
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I simply wanted to bring up the topic and see others thoughts on it as well as allow for something to consider while designing catch cans and running e85. Maybe its not something noticed as much from a street driven/drag car as a road course car making 600whp and staying between 5k-9k rpm for 20+ minutes
Sep 21, 2012, 04:14 PM
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That is exactly why I brought it up. With the way you handle your build, I knew you'd want to test the theory and find data. Im quite curious what you find. We dont have any solid data to prove our findings. Im currently looking into my own setup for my evo so I can run e85 on track next year. This is why I was curious if you have thought to use the balance shaft hole as a source. I cant find any good data yet.
Sep 23, 2012, 05:09 PM
#794
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Eagle, ID
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My friend Craig( calan) on most sites makes so very nice and well designed catch can. You should talk to him he is very helpful and has done a lot of research on the subject.
http://www.jcsautomation.com/vs%20catch%20cans.html
http://www.jcsautomation.com/vs%20catch%20cans.html
