R/TErnie's Evo 9 2.2L 4G64 EFR7670
Mar 27, 2012, 12:53 PM
#77
Thanks I'll probably use the Earls fittings I have at home and be lazy. And save money! I don't like using Vibrant metal fab components because they seem to have far more contaminates in the material than what I'm used to.
Acestainless, Burnsstainless, columbia river mandrel bending, Extreme Turbo Systems, Titanium Joe, and Online metals are where I get most of my materials. Call me stubborn.
Acestainless, Burnsstainless, columbia river mandrel bending, Extreme Turbo Systems, Titanium Joe, and Online metals are where I get most of my materials. Call me stubborn.
Mar 27, 2012, 05:26 PM
#79
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Thanks jwalleg!
Yeah Stu is awesome. When I was getting my post bacc at the VRI, his son (Marshall) and I did the engine development for our FSAE car. I worked with Marshall the past year at Janicki. I've been tuning his Supra for the past few months and trying to coax him to push for 700whp on the Sequential Twin Hybrid 28's. He's such a character... you should've seen how excited he was when he found out he made 600+ in Texas. Marshall edited it out of the video, but I thought it was great. He was fist pumping and had a huge smile. I thought that was pretty awesome. A lot of people knew Stu at TX2K12 and so many people were like "HEY STU THANKS FOR THE AWESOME LED CONVERSION"
So it's just funny that I found someone else that had it done He's a true car enthusiast.
Yeah Stu is awesome. When I was getting my post bacc at the VRI, his son (Marshall) and I did the engine development for our FSAE car. I worked with Marshall the past year at Janicki. I've been tuning his Supra for the past few months and trying to coax him to push for 700whp on the Sequential Twin Hybrid 28's. He's such a character... you should've seen how excited he was when he found out he made 600+ in Texas. Marshall edited it out of the video, but I thought it was great. He was fist pumping and had a huge smile. I thought that was pretty awesome. A lot of people knew Stu at TX2K12 and so many people were like "HEY STU THANKS FOR THE AWESOME LED CONVERSION"
So it's just funny that I found someone else that had it done He's a true car enthusiast.yeah, he really is..
sucks that i couldnt make it to tx2k this year, hopefully next ill find you and buy a
again great build you have going on there bro, wish you best of luck..
Mar 28, 2012, 10:02 AM
#83
I'm doing my best not to need a custom radiator from you, but it's a certain possibility.
I've conceded that I need to put the engine, trans, and transfer case in the car before I can finish the intercooler... I think I need to have the manifold, turbo, downpipe, and dumptubes placed before putting my intercooler outlet in space.
I've conceded that I need to put the engine, trans, and transfer case in the car before I can finish the intercooler... I think I need to have the manifold, turbo, downpipe, and dumptubes placed before putting my intercooler outlet in space.
I stared at the car for a while trying to figure out where the inlet/outlet was going to sit but came to the same conclusion.
Car looks great BTW
fat tire=sex 
Mar 28, 2012, 11:10 AM
#84
AMS MOROSO OIL PAN
I can only imagine someone's frustration without access to fabrication tools, a TIG welder, and a boat load of patience.
First picture shows how I taped off the baffled area to prevent getting aluminum chips down in the extremely well baffled sump.
Here I am removing the piece of aluminum sheet tig'd in place to retain the steel studs for the drain flange that Freddie told me to ditch.
Here it is removed.
Here is a closeup of the work I already did to the flange area to prevent a leak using the pre-existing fluid transfer method.
Same shot after I used a Uni-bit to open the hole up... fitting has a recession in it... fits right inside for a really nice weld.
This shows how the fitting will look from the outside.
Inside view of the previous holes filled with weld.
Inside view of the fitting welded in too.
Outside view of the fitting mod completed.
Small bit of porting to the inside diameter of the fitting.
Fitment problems...
While installing the pan WITH the studs already installed...(you may think that I did this in the wrong order and you put the studs in after the pan is seated... well I would've been EFFED either way. Stay tuned for the reason why!) the badass AMS oil pickup tube hits the internal baffles on the oil pan and won't allow the pan to seat.
SOOOOoooo. I took a sharpie and marked a few spots i thought it was rubbing (you can see where I slipped with my shaky hands and marked the pan) tried to reinstall...and then looked for where the sharpie had been rubbed off. I was pissed to have to cover my engine and roll it away to break out my DIE grinder on the bottom of my oil pan. All that tape to prevent chips in the sump and I have to resort to this!
You can see where I ground it back in 2 spots. left side and the bottom side (relative to the picture)
Now that I can get it past the pickup tube... we're stuck again. Boy am I glad I didn't RTV this pan already. The bolt holes don't line up with the studs very well. Oops!
I measured the hole diameter with my calipers... .300" Measured a few drill bits and found a .309" Figured .010" on everyhole should work perfectly. I marked the pan with the vector direction in which the stud was out of tolerance. I don't know how I drilled it any different, but I figured it would be nice to know. (more on this later) Oh yeah this is why it didn't matter if I put the studs in before or after I had the pan in place...because the bolt pattern is effed. A few pictures demonstrative how it doesn't fit.
In closing... After my 6th test fit and some more deburring I came to the conclusion that I would deal with it tomorrow (today) as I was too pissed to come up with a good solution. Today I've come up with using a round hand file to open the holes up in their respective directions. I think I'll probably do that.
INTERCOOLER PROGRESS
waiting until the engine/trans and turbosetup is in car.
FORCE-FED PERFORMANCE CNC PORTED EVO 9 HEAD
So I'd like to speak to this for a bit. There are a LOT of options out there for cylinder head porting. A lot of great shops and a lot of amazing work. That being said, I've ported probably 15 cylinder heads (Neon heads to be exact... very similar to Evo heads) in my life. I know that you cannot repeat the exact port shape from one cylinder to the next by hand porting. Just not possible. Not only are you a variable but, your port is a variable due to core shift and misalignment during machining. Given that I've worked for Janicki Industries for the past year or so... www.janicki.com I know cnc machining is very accurate, but also repeatable. Same port, same shape, everytime. Cylinder to cylinder variance will be inevitable due to the intake manifold design (basically all intake manifolds for evo's) I'd rather not have the port shape/flow make it worse. I'm probably not going to put 4 o2 sensors in my manifold and tune cylinder to cylinder. No thanks. I'll leave that on the table.
That being said/experienced, I limited my choices down to only CNC ported heads.
Now there are a few options here. AMS, GSC, ForceFed, and Cosworth were my preferred choices. I've heard lots of talk about who got what from who...how they developed it... who they copied etc. So there are a lot of the same port shapes running around. To be honest, I'm not trying to make 1100whp...so the peak flow numbers are not driving my decision, but simply port consistency. Due to that... all of these port shapes will suffice. I know that AMS has moved on from the Evo and is focusing on the GTR. Good for them. GSC makes killer camshafts and ER has had great results with their heads in the past. I know Cosworth does great work and their big valve head is quite expensive.. Cosworth isn't exceptionally involved in the Evo community except for Eric Hsu's involvement with the SSE Evo which is now retired. It was great meeting Eric Hsu at SEMA this year... we had a good talk.
Force-Fed is actively in the Evo community AND they did their due diligence looking at all the above heads as well as several hand ported heads to come up with a combination of what works best collectively. They then went forward and improved upon their already good design to achieve over 300 CFM of flow @ 28inches! And of course I'm a price conscious customer like everyone else... their head was a far better deal, especially since I already purchased all my valvetrain to my liking... Cosworth isn't going to install my valves, AMS and GSC may, but I'm sure it would be more money for their inconvenience.
So it was a pretty easy decision for me to use Force-Fed. Justin was easy to get a hold of, he answered the phone when I called, and promptly answered my emails. From the time I put my head in the mail, it was back to me completed in 3 weeks. 1 week shipping there, 1 week of work, 1 week shipping back. Very impressive.
I have some nice shots of their head work below. If you would like a specific shot, please let me know soon as I have not bolted the head down yet.
it's tough to see here... but I went OCD here... I actually ported all the oil return passageways, and deburred the entire inside of the casting.
ENGINE BUILD PROGRESS
Engine partially assembled with the baffles on. Sorry I don't have pictures of the rotating assembly going together. I used a ring grinder I got from jegs. awesome. I used a rod stretch gage from Jegs... Don't buy it...get the ARP one. They modify the spring to allow to measure while you turn!
You want to torque your rod bolts in 1-3 turns... And if you're trying to relate torque to stretch (as in...it took 18 steps of torque to 52ft-lbs to get the stretch that I wanted...so I'll use that for teh rest of them? WRONG) reason: Dynamic versus static friction coefficients. By sneaking up on the torque value by doing several torque/check rod bolt length, you'll end up getting an artificially high torque measurement to achieve the stretch required. yes I called ARP. Now you know...and knowing is half the battle.
Eagle crank means they use a set plug (pipe thread) that are WICKEDLY LOOSE from the factory. (for clarifications, the rod journal is cross drilled and the passageway from the mains needs to be plugged near the rod journal throw. they plug this passageway with said plug. Remove the set plugs, clean very very well, use red Loctite, and peen the threads to keep it from backing out. Thank you English Racing for the machine work.
Polished & radiused oil passages.
Close up of the 1/16" pipe thread plug into the oil galley (I don't have to flip bearings!), and the 1/8" pipe thread plug in the block... could be a great place to put an extra breather.
4G64... I'll never go back to a 4G63
Side cover - shows the freeze plug I got from AMS (says right on it that it's a 1 3/8" freeze plug) to be pressed in. I used Loctite 680 Green Bearing retainer...AND peened the corner over. The guys at JMS had this guy pop out at TX2K12...it was a helluva mess and I'm sure pissed them off.
Side cover with BS stubby. Maybe this is the place to address this. After looking at the AMS BS kit delete (which I bought and defended).... and after tearing my engine apart, I understand finally what Dave B, Marco, ER, AWD, STM, etc.... have all said. The BS delete stub is supported in the housing radially... and it can't go anywhere axially... JUST like the OG balance shaft and AMS's unit. stub shaft = win. Thank you Aaron and Marco for listening to me figure this out. Very simple once you actually look at.
Threaded weird BS plug cover thing. I put some red Loctite on this too... tightened the crap out of it.
Installed gaskets DRY. No RTV. Checked the service manual... I'm not crazy. Here the oil cover and the Filter housing are bolted up. The two bolts with lock washers are located in the lower right hand corner of this picture... if you're ever curious "which bolt goes where?"
Oil filter housing.
Earls Fittings 9919EFK - 18MM X 1.5 -8 Metric thread male to AN adapter male.
NOTE: does not come with required 18mm copper crush washer, nor does the rebuild kit from Mitsu.
ANOTHER NOTE: If you remove the Oil pressure regulator piston, spring, and cap... your engine rebuild master kit from Mitsu also does not come with the 18mm aluminum crush washer you need. If you're lucky like me... you bought extra crush washers
The oil pressure dummy light switch, I wanted to remove and put my 10bar oil pressure sensor here. I do not know that it will clear the axle shaft. I will wait and see... it may end up going here with a 60 degree or 90 degree fitting.... idk. So Suggestions as to where to put the oil pressure sensor...I'm certainyl open to. It's an 1/8" NPT inlet Zeitronix sensor for reference.
Of course the plugged hole which I Teflon'd and torqued the eff out of. (EDIT: CLEARLY I RED LOCTITED THIS FITTING... UH OH)
And the BSP to -4AN fitting you guys are asking about.... drumroll. I got with my FP oil feedline kit when I had my FP Red. I never sold it. Used it with my HKS, FP Green, and Stock 9 turbo. I love the oil filter that it has inline! Freaking awesome. Hit up Forced Performance and get your own.
You can see I radiused the entrance into the oil filter. You can also see that it is discolored a bit...that's from running it through the parts washer. I radiused all cross drilled passages.
Bagged for the night. Thank you to my loving wife who bought me the ft-lb and in-lb Snap On torque wrenches.
Thanks again to Magnus and Aaron @ English for the oil setup advice. I owe a "you told me so" to David Buschur for the stub shaft.
I can only imagine someone's frustration without access to fabrication tools, a TIG welder, and a boat load of patience.
First picture shows how I taped off the baffled area to prevent getting aluminum chips down in the extremely well baffled sump.
Here I am removing the piece of aluminum sheet tig'd in place to retain the steel studs for the drain flange that Freddie told me to ditch.
Here it is removed.
Here is a closeup of the work I already did to the flange area to prevent a leak using the pre-existing fluid transfer method.
Same shot after I used a Uni-bit to open the hole up... fitting has a recession in it... fits right inside for a really nice weld.
This shows how the fitting will look from the outside.
Inside view of the previous holes filled with weld.
Inside view of the fitting welded in too.
Outside view of the fitting mod completed.
Small bit of porting to the inside diameter of the fitting.
Fitment problems...
While installing the pan WITH the studs already installed...(you may think that I did this in the wrong order and you put the studs in after the pan is seated... well I would've been EFFED either way. Stay tuned for the reason why!) the badass AMS oil pickup tube hits the internal baffles on the oil pan and won't allow the pan to seat.
SOOOOoooo. I took a sharpie and marked a few spots i thought it was rubbing (you can see where I slipped with my shaky hands and marked the pan) tried to reinstall...and then looked for where the sharpie had been rubbed off. I was pissed to have to cover my engine and roll it away to break out my DIE grinder on the bottom of my oil pan. All that tape to prevent chips in the sump and I have to resort to this!
You can see where I ground it back in 2 spots. left side and the bottom side (relative to the picture)
Now that I can get it past the pickup tube... we're stuck again. Boy am I glad I didn't RTV this pan already. The bolt holes don't line up with the studs very well. Oops!
I measured the hole diameter with my calipers... .300" Measured a few drill bits and found a .309" Figured .010" on everyhole should work perfectly. I marked the pan with the vector direction in which the stud was out of tolerance. I don't know how I drilled it any different, but I figured it would be nice to know. (more on this later) Oh yeah this is why it didn't matter if I put the studs in before or after I had the pan in place...because the bolt pattern is effed. A few pictures demonstrative how it doesn't fit.
In closing... After my 6th test fit and some more deburring I came to the conclusion that I would deal with it tomorrow (today) as I was too pissed to come up with a good solution. Today I've come up with using a round hand file to open the holes up in their respective directions. I think I'll probably do that.
INTERCOOLER PROGRESS
waiting until the engine/trans and turbosetup is in car.
FORCE-FED PERFORMANCE CNC PORTED EVO 9 HEAD
So I'd like to speak to this for a bit. There are a LOT of options out there for cylinder head porting. A lot of great shops and a lot of amazing work. That being said, I've ported probably 15 cylinder heads (Neon heads to be exact... very similar to Evo heads) in my life. I know that you cannot repeat the exact port shape from one cylinder to the next by hand porting. Just not possible. Not only are you a variable but, your port is a variable due to core shift and misalignment during machining. Given that I've worked for Janicki Industries for the past year or so... www.janicki.com I know cnc machining is very accurate, but also repeatable. Same port, same shape, everytime. Cylinder to cylinder variance will be inevitable due to the intake manifold design (basically all intake manifolds for evo's) I'd rather not have the port shape/flow make it worse. I'm probably not going to put 4 o2 sensors in my manifold and tune cylinder to cylinder. No thanks. I'll leave that on the table.
That being said/experienced, I limited my choices down to only CNC ported heads.
Now there are a few options here. AMS, GSC, ForceFed, and Cosworth were my preferred choices. I've heard lots of talk about who got what from who...how they developed it... who they copied etc. So there are a lot of the same port shapes running around. To be honest, I'm not trying to make 1100whp...so the peak flow numbers are not driving my decision, but simply port consistency. Due to that... all of these port shapes will suffice. I know that AMS has moved on from the Evo and is focusing on the GTR. Good for them. GSC makes killer camshafts and ER has had great results with their heads in the past. I know Cosworth does great work and their big valve head is quite expensive.. Cosworth isn't exceptionally involved in the Evo community except for Eric Hsu's involvement with the SSE Evo which is now retired. It was great meeting Eric Hsu at SEMA this year... we had a good talk.
Force-Fed is actively in the Evo community AND they did their due diligence looking at all the above heads as well as several hand ported heads to come up with a combination of what works best collectively. They then went forward and improved upon their already good design to achieve over 300 CFM of flow @ 28inches! And of course I'm a price conscious customer like everyone else... their head was a far better deal, especially since I already purchased all my valvetrain to my liking... Cosworth isn't going to install my valves, AMS and GSC may, but I'm sure it would be more money for their inconvenience.
So it was a pretty easy decision for me to use Force-Fed. Justin was easy to get a hold of, he answered the phone when I called, and promptly answered my emails. From the time I put my head in the mail, it was back to me completed in 3 weeks. 1 week shipping there, 1 week of work, 1 week shipping back. Very impressive.
I have some nice shots of their head work below. If you would like a specific shot, please let me know soon as I have not bolted the head down yet.
it's tough to see here... but I went OCD here... I actually ported all the oil return passageways, and deburred the entire inside of the casting.
ENGINE BUILD PROGRESS
Engine partially assembled with the baffles on. Sorry I don't have pictures of the rotating assembly going together. I used a ring grinder I got from jegs. awesome. I used a rod stretch gage from Jegs... Don't buy it...get the ARP one. They modify the spring to allow to measure while you turn!
You want to torque your rod bolts in 1-3 turns... And if you're trying to relate torque to stretch (as in...it took 18 steps of torque to 52ft-lbs to get the stretch that I wanted...so I'll use that for teh rest of them? WRONG) reason: Dynamic versus static friction coefficients. By sneaking up on the torque value by doing several torque/check rod bolt length, you'll end up getting an artificially high torque measurement to achieve the stretch required. yes I called ARP. Now you know...and knowing is half the battle.
Eagle crank means they use a set plug (pipe thread) that are WICKEDLY LOOSE from the factory. (for clarifications, the rod journal is cross drilled and the passageway from the mains needs to be plugged near the rod journal throw. they plug this passageway with said plug. Remove the set plugs, clean very very well, use red Loctite, and peen the threads to keep it from backing out. Thank you English Racing for the machine work.
Polished & radiused oil passages.
Close up of the 1/16" pipe thread plug into the oil galley (I don't have to flip bearings!), and the 1/8" pipe thread plug in the block... could be a great place to put an extra breather.
4G64... I'll never go back to a 4G63
Side cover - shows the freeze plug I got from AMS (says right on it that it's a 1 3/8" freeze plug) to be pressed in. I used Loctite 680 Green Bearing retainer...AND peened the corner over. The guys at JMS had this guy pop out at TX2K12...it was a helluva mess and I'm sure pissed them off.
Side cover with BS stubby. Maybe this is the place to address this. After looking at the AMS BS kit delete (which I bought and defended).... and after tearing my engine apart, I understand finally what Dave B, Marco, ER, AWD, STM, etc.... have all said. The BS delete stub is supported in the housing radially... and it can't go anywhere axially... JUST like the OG balance shaft and AMS's unit. stub shaft = win. Thank you Aaron and Marco for listening to me figure this out. Very simple once you actually look at.
Threaded weird BS plug cover thing. I put some red Loctite on this too... tightened the crap out of it.
Installed gaskets DRY. No RTV. Checked the service manual... I'm not crazy. Here the oil cover and the Filter housing are bolted up. The two bolts with lock washers are located in the lower right hand corner of this picture... if you're ever curious "which bolt goes where?"
Oil filter housing.
Earls Fittings 9919EFK - 18MM X 1.5 -8 Metric thread male to AN adapter male.
NOTE: does not come with required 18mm copper crush washer, nor does the rebuild kit from Mitsu.
ANOTHER NOTE: If you remove the Oil pressure regulator piston, spring, and cap... your engine rebuild master kit from Mitsu also does not come with the 18mm aluminum crush washer you need. If you're lucky like me... you bought extra crush washers
The oil pressure dummy light switch, I wanted to remove and put my 10bar oil pressure sensor here. I do not know that it will clear the axle shaft. I will wait and see... it may end up going here with a 60 degree or 90 degree fitting.... idk. So Suggestions as to where to put the oil pressure sensor...I'm certainyl open to. It's an 1/8" NPT inlet Zeitronix sensor for reference.
Of course the plugged hole which I Teflon'd and torqued the eff out of. (EDIT: CLEARLY I RED LOCTITED THIS FITTING... UH OH)
And the BSP to -4AN fitting you guys are asking about.... drumroll. I got with my FP oil feedline kit when I had my FP Red. I never sold it. Used it with my HKS, FP Green, and Stock 9 turbo. I love the oil filter that it has inline! Freaking awesome. Hit up Forced Performance and get your own.
You can see I radiused the entrance into the oil filter. You can also see that it is discolored a bit...that's from running it through the parts washer. I radiused all cross drilled passages.
Bagged for the night. Thank you to my loving wife who bought me the ft-lb and in-lb Snap On torque wrenches.
Thanks again to Magnus and Aaron @ English for the oil setup advice. I owe a "you told me so" to David Buschur for the stub shaft.
Last edited by R/TErnie; Mar 28, 2012 at 04:29 PM.
Mar 28, 2012, 12:51 PM
#90
Great Build Eric!
Please let me know if you need a hand with any of the ViPec stuff, my boss (Carl Ruiterman) is a wizz on the Link G4 which is the same ECU. You can even run ViPec software in the Link G4!! And the logs are the same etc.
Cheers, Mike
Please let me know if you need a hand with any of the ViPec stuff, my boss (Carl Ruiterman) is a wizz on the Link G4 which is the same ECU. You can even run ViPec software in the Link G4!! And the logs are the same etc.
Cheers, Mike