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Old Dec 8, 2009 | 09:03 AM
  #16  
chaotichoax's Avatar
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Originally Posted by SyZyGy1394
I'm not saying you should have to search before closing a thread, but if you already searched, you might as well help them out a bit.
Like I said at least 50% of the time I will give the OP suggestions/info/links

But as SASD209 said, I'm not here to spoon feed. I search for things myself when I'm unsure of the answer. As should everyone else.
Old Dec 10, 2009 | 10:14 AM
  #17  
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A great example:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...eliablity.html
Moderator didn't even post an correct link, and closed a thread that already contained many posts with useful information. Moderator didn't even consider merging it with something else.

And another
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...tery-help.html

Here's one that could have been merged
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...go-hybrid.html

An example of a closed thread with information from the closing moderator that's actually useful
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...t-muffler.html

What was even the point of closing this one, aside from the fact that the question was answered?
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-evo-10-a.html

No reason for closure
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...help-fast.html

A moderator not even posting in the correct forum.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ay-rebate.html

Another potential merger
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-upgrades.html

Another that SHOULD have been merged
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...rocedures.html

Great example of a "please search" thread, when the poster had clearly explained that he had been reading about tis different trims, but didn't understand fully
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...at-i-have.html

What was the point of closing this thread? What if a user comes in a couple months down the road and has something to say on the subject? Why stifle ongoing discussion?
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...l-related.html

Another that could have been merged. It was a repost, and the OP even stated he searched before posting. More proof that the "far and away more comprehensive" search engine, isn't quite so "far and away more comprehensive"
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...des-horse.html

Oddly one of the could have been merged threads I was looking for is gone... Maybe it was merged?

I'll happily post more as I see em. Keep in mind that I'm not pointing out only threads that could have been merged. I'm also pointing out threads that contain useful information, and discussions that were stifled because the thread was closed.

Last edited by Webman; Dec 10, 2009 at 10:51 AM.
Old Dec 10, 2009 | 10:34 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by SASD209
Quite frankly, I don't have the time to spoon-feed people who are too lazy to perform a legitimate search. Our search engine has been progressively upgraded through the years and as otter said, it is far and away more comprehensive than the standard vB engine. Read into the history of the posts in this sub-forum to track the evolution of our search issues.....it has never been better than it is today. I'd love nothing more than the time to leave a detailed trail for people to follow to reach their end-goal. The constraints of real life and the fact that all the EvoM Mods are volunteers precludes that...hence the search engine.
This makes you part of the problem. The fact that you are stating that you're not interested in helping your users find what they are here looking for, is simply absurd. You provide a service that you aren't interested in supporting. Why are you an admin if you're not interested in providing that services that this site is here to provide? Not everyone is as smart as you are, and not everyone has the godly searching capabilities that you think you are capable of. Just accept the fact that not everyone is as good as you at searching, and try maybe helping people out for a change.

As for the search engine capabilities, I still find them to be sub-par. Search for the word "hybrid", then search for the word "hybrids". The results are different, when they should just be the same because it's a pluralized word. You're talking to a guy who has spent a lot of time designing search engines for internal applications. The fact is, the search engine here still sucks compared to using google. Problem is, most people don't know how to use google to get the most out of their search. Again, making you part of the problem because you are uninterested in helping people find what they are looking for. It's a severe disappointment.

I am here to stand up for the guy who searches, but can't come up with the results that they expected, so they post their own thread. Usually because they either aren't sure exactly what keywords will lead them to the results they are seeking, or because they don't know how to use search engines effectively. So instead of having an admin or moderator help (not spoon feed) the user find what they are looking for, they decide that ripping on them about searching, and closing their thread is the best course of action. This is not to say that people always search before posting, but more that moderators, and now obviously admins alike, always ASSume that the user hasn't searched. It's a poor ASSumption to make.
Old Dec 10, 2009 | 11:33 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Webman
A great example:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...eliablity.html
Moderator didn't even post an correct link, and closed a thread that already contained many posts with useful information. Moderator didn't even consider merging it with something else.

The search link was broken. My fault. It has been addressed. Thanks for pointing out the link didn't work. Point here, a rule of the forum is to search. The OP didn't search. He should have and would have found his answer. It's on the forum. If he has more questions, he should bump an old thread and ask his question. This would accomplish your goal of trying to merge threads. Also, there isn't new information in that thread. All of that information already exists in other threads. So, we would be merging duplicate information which simply doesn't make sense.

And another
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...tery-help.html

Again, another instance where the link was broken and has been addressed. And, again another instance where the OP should search and find his answer. It was very easy to find the answer which has been discussed at length. There was no new information in that thread that was worth merging into any of the other threads.

Here's one that could have been merged
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...go-hybrid.html

Did you go to the future models section where the moderator directed members? All of that information already existed in other threads. We would be merging duplicate information. So, it really shouldn't be merged.

An example of a closed thread with information from the closing moderator that's actually useful
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...t-muffler.html

True, but had the OP searched he would have found his answer without creating a thread that has been discussed a million times here. In fact, "warranty voided/warranty issues" is the most discussed car topic on every single car forum created.

What was even the point of closing this one, aside from the fact that the question was answered?
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-evo-10-a.html

Because the answer was given and there is nothing left to discuss that wouldn't be off-topic from the OP's question. You ask what's the point of closing it, please tell us what's the point of leaving it open?

No reason for closure
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...help-fast.html

Perhaps, but what would be a reason to leave it open? The OP's question was answered.

A moderator not even posting in the correct forum.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ay-rebate.html

I don't know anything about this arrangement; one of the other mods will have to reply to this one.

Another potential merger
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-upgrades.html

Not really. There was nothing said in that thread that hasn't been discussed at length already. Why merge duplicate information?

Another that SHOULD have been merged
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...rocedures.html

No, it shouldn't have been. Motoman has appeared on this forum more times than anyone can count. His procedure has been discussed in regards to the VIII, IX, X, Lancer, Ralliart, etc. If we would have merged that into another thread, we would just be duplicating something that has been discussed more than 1,000 times.

Great example of a "please search" thread, when the poster had clearly explained that he had been reading about tis different trims, but didn't understand fully
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...at-i-have.html

First, that's a perfect example where the OP didn't search. Had he searched, he would have found his answer. Do you not agree? Secondly, his question was answered in post #2.

What was the point of closing this thread? What if a user comes in a couple months down the road and has something to say on the subject? Why stifle ongoing discussion?
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...l-related.html

There was no ongoing discussion. The OP provided an update as to the resolution. The OP then requested the thread be closed. I then closed it and noted that the OP can let me know if he would like it reopened if he has any new news. Anything that you would consider "ongoing discussion" would have been a bunch of mindless dealership bashing which wouldn't have added any real discussion.

Another that could have been merged. It was a repost, and the OP even stated he searched before posting. More proof that the "far and away more comprehensive" search engine, isn't quite so "far and away more comprehensive"
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...des-horse.html

He couldn't have searched. It wasn't a problem with the search engine either. Type in "evo hits horse" and hit "GO" and you'll see the original merged thread is the 3rd result. The top two are reposts. There is no need to merge a repost.

Oddly one of the could have been merged threads I was looking for is gone... Maybe it was merged?

I'll happily post more as I see em. Keep in mind that I'm not pointing out only threads that could have been merged. I'm also pointing out threads that contain useful information, and discussions that were stifled because the thread was closed.
See above.
Old Dec 10, 2009 | 12:21 PM
  #20  
chaotichoax's Avatar
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answers in bold

Originally Posted by Webman
A great example:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...eliablity.html
Moderator didn't even post an correct link, and closed a thread that already contained many posts with useful information. Moderator didn't even consider merging it with something else.

Closed threads are still visible to the public. The information did not get up and walk away

What was even the point of closing this one, aside from the fact that the question was answered?
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-evo-10-a.html

When a question has a simple yes or no answer and there isn't any opinion or extra information to be had, we close them.

No reason for closure
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...help-fast.html

What good could have came from keeping this open? More repetitive responses that don't add to the thread? This is the perfect type of thread for someone trying to spam to fifty posts to use the classifieds to post in.

A moderator not even posting in the correct forum.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ay-rebate.html

Post release is not a moderator it's the site owner's promotional account. I'd suggest you not ASSume things.

Great example of a "please search" thread, when the poster had clearly explained that he had been reading about tis different trims, but didn't understand fully
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...at-i-have.html

The OP referenced AEM in his selection. Clearly he had no idea what he was talking about and if he had searched this information it is discussed to death. Not too mention googling those terms would have netted him definitions. We don't spoon feed information. It's even in a sticky or two in the general and/or newbie section.

What was the point of closing this thread? What if a user comes in a couple months down the road and has something to say on the subject? Why stifle ongoing discussion?
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...l-related.html

Anytime a thread is negative it has a tendency to turn into a slander fest and they get off topic. The OP could easily PM a moderator to have it opened again to add to it.

Another that could have been merged. It was a repost, and the OP even stated he searched before posting. More proof that the "far and away more comprehensive" search engine, isn't quite so "far and away more comprehensive"
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...des-horse.html

Oddly one of the could have been merged threads I was looking for is gone... Maybe it was merged?

In an instance like this, there are many different names the thread could receive. I will close a thread if I've seen it before regardless if it is named differently. Especially video threads like that; they are bound to be posted multiple times.

I'll happily post more as I see em. Keep in mind that I'm not pointing out only threads that could have been merged. I'm also pointing out threads that contain useful information, and discussions that were stifled because the thread was closed.
The reality is we are not going to merge every thread to something else just because it can be. Merging threads can actually take away from a thread very easily. They are arranged by post date and time. So two threads posted at similar times and merged can be a back and forth of context that make no sense. I've done it by accident before and the results were far worse than just closing one thread and linking the other.

Last edited by chaotichoax; Dec 10, 2009 at 02:54 PM.
Old Dec 10, 2009 | 12:45 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Webman
This makes you part of the problem. The fact that you are stating that you're not interested in helping your users find what they are here looking for, is simply absurd. You provide a service that you aren't interested in supporting. Why are you an admin if you're not interested in providing that services that this site is here to provide? Not everyone is as smart as you are, and not everyone has the godly searching capabilities that you think you are capable of. Just accept the fact that not everyone is as good as you at searching, and try maybe helping people out for a change.

As for the search engine capabilities, I still find them to be sub-par. Search for the word "hybrid", then search for the word "hybrids". The results are different, when they should just be the same because it's a pluralized word. You're talking to a guy who has spent a lot of time designing search engines for internal applications. The fact is, the search engine here still sucks compared to using google. Problem is, most people don't know how to use google to get the most out of their search. Again, making you part of the problem because you are uninterested in helping people find what they are looking for. It's a severe disappointment.

I am here to stand up for the guy who searches, but can't come up with the results that they expected, so they post their own thread. Usually because they either aren't sure exactly what keywords will lead them to the results they are seeking, or because they don't know how to use search engines effectively. So instead of having an admin or moderator help (not spoon feed) the user find what they are looking for, they decide that ripping on them about searching, and closing their thread is the best course of action. This is not to say that people always search before posting, but more that moderators, and now obviously admins alike, always ASSume that the user hasn't searched. It's a poor ASSumption to make.
Webman, I see where you are coming from and I know this wasn't directed at me specifically but since I am staff and have been on staff for a few years I will response.

We are volunteers, we do this because we care about the forum and we want to help be responsible for it's growth.

We cannot and will not help everyone; it's simply not plausible. 50% of the time I close a thread and tell someone to search; I will provide a suggestion, advice, and sometimes even a correct link. That is going above and beyond what I'm expected to do. I don't receive any perks for doing it other than knowing I helped a member. I was a regular member here for two years prior to becoming a moderator and I searched for info no differently than I do now.

I was approached to be part of the staff because of my overall knowledge of the content and willingness to help out. For instance, check out the i-ix how to section. I cleaned/closed/stickied/copied almost half a page of links. Not for my benefit, for the community.

Do I think our search engine is God's gift to the internet? Hardly, but I certainly wouldn't be comparing it to Google. If Google's search engine isn't far better than ours' then there is an issue. Our search certainly has room for improvement but we don't control that. For that exact reason you'll see mods suggest using Google to aid in searching.

We have a variety of tasks as staff. We rely heavily on members to report posts that need attention. A lot of threads that are closed are suggested by other members. So do not be so quick to judge the staff for all decisions.

Compared to other large forums I'm a part of, EvoM is by far more organized and looked after.

Last edited by chaotichoax; Dec 10, 2009 at 03:33 PM.
Old Dec 10, 2009 | 02:22 PM
  #22  
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Maybe have one thread that is stickied containing links to important FAQ topics? That should cut down on newly created threads. Sorta like this but contain more than tires and brakes https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...good-info.html and is specific to each general (evo1-9, evox, ralliart, lancer) section. I can try to compile a list but without power to merge threads it would be a real bother to the mods.
Old Dec 10, 2009 | 02:54 PM
  #23  
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Tangerine,

There would be no need to merge threads to do something like that. Ultimately there would be one thread with a bunch of links pertaining to important/relevant information

almost every section has something similar to this in the i-ix area

general has one
engine/turbo/drivetrain has one
ecu management - ecuflash has one
brakes/wheels/suspension has one
show n shine has a few

Like I said merging threads can be just as negative as it can be positive. It aligns posts by date and time which can mix posts up and further complicate things.
Old Dec 10, 2009 | 03:28 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Webman
This makes you part of the problem. The fact that you are stating that you're not interested in helping your users find what they are here looking for, is simply absurd. You provide a service that you aren't interested in supporting. Why are you an admin if you're not interested in providing that services that this site is here to provide? Not everyone is as smart as you are, and not everyone has the godly searching capabilities that you think you are capable of. Just accept the fact that not everyone is as good as you at searching, and try maybe helping people out for a change.

.
Helping people out for a change? I've been on Staff over twice as long as you've been a member. I've spent countless hours helping people from a simple name change to marathon PM and email sessions resolving marketplace issues between users. I do this for FREE and using my own resources because I care about this community. I never said I was not interested in helping users here, I satated I "...was not going to spoon-feed those too lazy to perform a LEGIT serach". Emphasis on LEGIT. Posting a thread such as "what's the best BOV" will indeed get my attention and probably result in me closing and deleting the thread. Posting a thread such as "I've searched but can't find good info about the newly released XYZ widget" will be an example of an acceptable way to post a question while attempting to find the answer first. And I never said I had 'Godly search abilities', that is an invention by YOU. Please do a bit of research before you throw around accusations and ill-informed criticizm.

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