sgevotx

iTrader: (2)

Not to start any war, but your post about removing subframe for a clutch job is funny to me. I don't think anyone that own a shop or even work on evo think that removing the subframe to install a clutch are necessary. If they know what they are doing. Do you know how much work involve in removing the subframe itself???LOL.... I think that mitsubishi messup and forgot to add that part on their service manual.
Try make a post in any of the top evo shop in this forum about removing subframe to do a clutch on an evo and i can guaranteed you that everyone gonna laugh their *** off.
Anyway about the torn chasiss wire, there are no wire harness removal involve in an clutch install. None of the wire harness need to be touch, except a ground wire on the bell housing and unplug a reverse light connector. Everytime you listen to a story please and please know your stuff before you buy the story. I believe that one particular car that had a problem after the clutch install at PR, there is another install done to the car right after by someone else. Like installing a cams and turbo right after that. There is much more connector and wire you need to remove on a cam install compare to a clutch installation, turbo installation will hit the radiator if they never remove the radiator. FYI, clutch installation at PR they always remove the radiator and none of that radiator fin bending you'll be seeing on the installation because of pushing the motor forward.

Lonestar mitsubishi, they never deal with them and i don't think the owner know any of the tech or parts guy there period. I don't know how you get your story but to tell you this, the owner did tell me that they can do a clutch install at a superman speed of 4 1/2 with 2 people working on the car hauling ***. That's their record fast and with customer pressuring them to do it. Which parts on your car that get install at PR they messup. As you say speaking of one's experience or is that just some story you hear from the street. There are a lot of stories that i heard from other shop in town, out of town and backyard mechanic doing evo head stud with silicon. That eventually brew the head gasket. None of those i would like to mention here, just take it as a grain of salt. You never know whats the true story behind those, unless it happen to me.

Anyhow, i'm a loyal customer with this shop for 8 years. If they are really that messup as you mention, don't you think they would have been close down long time ago, instead of always pack with cars all year round. Have seen so many amazing work they did on import and euro cars, Just to mention a few, they are the first in S.A to turbo an S2K, first in S.A to turbo an 3rd gen V6 eclipse, first in S.A to do a 4G63 head With a 4G64 block eclipse, first IS300 turbo and many more. They are not just an installation shop, they modify cars and custom fabrication. They are an all rounder not just evo smart.

belizelittle39439

iTrader: (4)

No worries...we're both adults and hopefully can speak that way.

No less than 2 mechanics that I know personally both recommend taking off the subframe to do the Evo clutch. Why? Because it's easier in the long run and worth the added effort of removing the subframe. Otherwise...you have little room to work with, and some people end up pushing the engine forward, and therein lies the problem. Sure you can do it without taking off the subframe, but when you do a clutch with it off, you're cussing a lot less. There's more room to work and it's easier to get the tranny out and back in. The reason shops don't do it is because they don't want to take the extra time to do it "right" (I realize that's subjective).

Now here is what the manual says on the clutch, and the transaxle/transfer case...just so we're all on the same page, no pun intended. First should be the clutch, and second will be the transfer case--but the reason I showed that instead of the transmission is to show the "complexity" of the subframe removal...





You're right, there isn't. But if you're going to be pushing an engine forward, you might want to make sure you remove such things. Therein lies that problem.

That one particular car had a problem to begin with. It was a factory harness that caused the problems your speaking of. It was grounding out in a spot that neither group worked on. So that's neither here nor there. But the other problems, like the chassis wire and radiator fins were there before the turbo/cams etc. was performed. Keep in mind that there was another car that just had clutch work done there, and had the exact same byproducts--and no--there was no other work done on that engine just after. What happened with that one? And I'd be careful with using the word always...unless you're there for every single clutch install. I see all the work done on my car at all times, or it doesn't get done. That's why a lot of shops don't do work on my car. I've been around enough of them, and know that the techs aren't certified, they don't torque things to spec, and that they really could give a rats *** about the owner's property. They're in business to make money, not because they love your car.

BTW...if they don't push the engine forward to do the work...why remove the radiator? That's not in the shop manual either for rebuilding a clutch.

That could be my mistake, I don't recall whether PR told me it was West loop he had connections with or Lone Star. Regardless, It came directly from HIS mouth. So that's where I get my information from.

See above. I heard some pieces of info from PR themselves, and some of it from the customers themselves. Not the "street". It's not like I walk around aimlessly and try and find dirt on people.

And I commend you for that. Now keep in mind I didn't say they were "messed up" or that they've never done good work, or anything of the sort. I just mentioned the few times that we enthusiasts have seen problems in the work. Does it mean that all the work is done this way? No. Does it mean that your car is going to be done this way? No. Does it mean that there's a possibility your car might be contained within the x percent of cars that do have mistakes made on them? Yep. Whether you agree with the information or not...it is what it is. Like I said before...let the gentlemen who is reading all this sort it out himself. He can call Will himself and discuss the process of the clutch install, (if I was him, I'd ask to see the process) and perhaps talk about other things as well.

Will isn't a bad guy, I'm sure that the other guy working there isn't a bad guy either. But humans are humans, they make mistakes. The difference lies in whether or not a person can own up to their mistakes.

STi300whp

You still on the FP green setup?

belizelittle39439

iTrader: (4)

Yessir...how's it going Alvaro?

STi300whp

Going good man.... haven't seen or talked to you in a while. Are you going to be able to make it to saturday's meet?

belizelittle39439

iTrader: (4)

Maybe...I'm redoing some wiring in the car (the interior's gutted) and of course I'm waiting on the new suspension to come in before I install the whiteline stuff and so forth.

Last bit of modding right now (at least for the time being). I did the power mods, the interior mods, and now I'm just finishing up the suspension mods.

Only thing left after this is (ironcially) the clutch whenever it decides to go and at that time I'll do the precision steering kit--since the subframe needs to be removed for that as well.

So I may not take the car out again until it's ready to be taken out...we'll see.

STi300whp

that's cool... best of luck with the ride

belizelittle39439

iTrader: (4)

Thanks...I'm sure we'll see each other again soon enough. I'll be going to the import thing at SAR on the 16th more than likely...hoping the car will have at least the interior done at that point.

1 Slo IS

lmao, you're obviously living in your own little world, get real man...every business is in for the money. Do what everyone else is doing, recommend what shop they would take it to and move on. What's your relationship with speedelement?

belizelittle39439

iTrader: (4)

I think you're stepping off on the wrong foot with the tone of your very first post. I also think you've misread that excerpt. You're actually agreeing with it by simply restating what I've already said. I advised who I would take my car too, and I advised already that the difference in particulars should be investigated by the potential customer. So you're now zero for one. Good job.

And my "relationship" with speed element is none of your concern--but if you must know; I received such good service from them both before AND after the sale(s) that I decided to add that to my sig. If you need parts--be sure to give Calvin a ring. He and his staff will take very good care of you.

BTW...what is a brand new member who lives in Taiwan doing in a south region forum anyway?

TH3 STIG

^^^Cool, thanks! I appreciate all of the shop recommendations. Precision will be hired to install my new clutch, and I'll recruit MRevo2006's help on the coilover install.

Regarding gauge installs, on average, how long does it take to install 3 Defi BF Imperial gauges (60mm)? Do I need to buy the oil sandwich adapter and other fittings before heading out for the install?

Thanks a ton!!!
Jason

sgevotx

iTrader: (2)

I think you guys need to stop already, whatever it is. I've already try my best to explain everything in plain broken english... lol, take it or leave it.

I just didn't like the idea of bashing any of the shop mention, either PR, MZM or Soul Speed. They are all respectable shop and people to me, maybe it just me. I've seen what Willam can do, i've heard what mohamad has done and i've actually race against bill kim on LSRPCA event held at TWS.

What you read on book "may" never apply to actual hands on work . You are right everyone should be removing the subframe when doing a clutch job, it's in the service manual. I'm pretty sure 99.9% of the shop in the whole nation will never do that, if they deal with lots of evo. Just my personal thought, i may be very wrong on this again.

Anyway, you had your side of stories and i got my story thru their phone conversation and actually looking at the install on the actual car. Actually study the wire diagram of how that chassis ground would cause a short and melt the wire harness. The tech from a dealer in town keep claiming that the chassis ground cause all the melting. Anyone that had slight electrical knowledge will know what a chassis ground purpose are. Most of the people that run a aftermarket intake manifold didn't even have a ground wire on their intake manifold. Willam does offer to fix and pay for everything if it's their fault during the installation of the clutch. Yes i heard the whole conversation and he told him that he stand behind all his work. Just need him to get a second opinion at another dealer that can explain it in writing and with verbal explanation that he can understand. Not just telling him, yes the ground cause the short and couldn't give any explanation how it causes the melt down. Obviously, the tech was told by someone to say that to willam and couldn't back it up with reasons and causes. The customer didn't call back after that and never show up in the shop no more. Till today, i'm still interested in knowing what's the cause of a brand spanking new evo melting a wire harness on it's own. Could it be the chassis ground, obviously not. If you understand how car electrical work. As for tearing up the intake manifold ground wire on a evo clutch job, yes very possible. Denting radiator fins, very possible. And they already took extra careful on those stuff on an evo clutch job after the incident. As for after working over two three hundred different evo from 2003 till now with 2 rear motor mount nut loose because of impact getting old fault and one melted wire harness which who knows who's fault and one unknown customer that you mention that i don't even know. Whatever compliant they get, they'll take note and makesure it'll never happen again. They'll takecare of all the mistake they make, If they know it's their fault. Willam does take pride in all his work and will admit his mistake and never run away with it. I think that would consider a pretty decent place to recommend to all evom member. All man make mistake could apply to mechanics too right? Aren't they humans?

And to answer your previous quote, yes i'm always there in the shop 90% of the time. I just love cars and seeing new things excite me, 16 yrs of modifying car and still learning new things everyday.

FWIW, that's what i know and i don't expect you to buy my story. Just take it as a grain of salt and decide yourself who to believe, you actually been believing what you believe. Just keep it that way then, i just wanted to say what i know.

Whoosh

iTrader: (19)

MRevo2006...you make several valid points in your statements. I certainly agree that an owner should follow closely ALL work being done on his car. For most of us it is our pride and joy. I also agree with your statement that we are all human and thus subject to the periodic mistake.

Now having said all that, I must be living some type of charmed life. I've had more than a fair amount of work done on my car since purchased new and for the most part the work was done with care and expertise. Unfortuneately, the few times that things went wrong were a direct result of an "individual's" work. Two of the shops that you have taken to task (Soulspeed and Precision R) have done great jobs for me. Most recently, PR did my clutch install and I couldn't be happier with the the way William dealt with me and my car. He went out of his way to do everything that I wanted, suggested certain improvements that I could choose and called me everyday with an update on the progress. When I picked up the car on Saturday, he even had the car hand washed and ready for me. Tuff to beat that service. I might also add that there were no bent radiator fins, loose wires or vacuum hoses. For that matter, I didn't even see any smudges on the shiney stuff under the hood. I hate smudges!

belizelittle39439

iTrader: (4)

That's good to hear Whoosh! I like to hear experiences like that as opposed to the latter. Like I said before, I never said anything about his previous work, just the two more recent clutch jobs that I'd come across. Which is pertinant to this thread.

Nothing more needs to be said about those in particular.

belizelittle39439

iTrader: (4)

Why is it when someone tells of a good experience it's all fine and dandy--but when someone talks of a bad experience it's "bashing"? Get off the bandwagon already--people (which shops consist of) have faults. Get over it.

William seems to have helped a lot of people...that's great. But nonetheless has made some mistakes. It's not the end of the world. Mohammed has done some shoddy work for another friend of mine and then left him high and dry when it was brought to his attention...I'm sure mohammed's had his share of proper cars...but you get the point. And Soulspeed...well...Bill Kim isn't part of it anymore...and Collin is the guy that did my car.

That's the problem. I would rather a shop do something by the book--correctly--because engineers are probably smarter than wrenchers 95% of the time.

You're hell bent on this one particular car aren't you? Mitsuorder fixed that car free of charge for that gentlemen because the dealer wouldn't touch it and William wouldn't touch it otherwise. If i recall correctly, it turned out (since you mentioned you wanted to know) that the factory harness completely melted down in a spot that was very deep into the wiring--so it seems that neither party had anything to do with it. Just a freak thing. Unfortunately for the owner wasn't able to get factory support because of the mods on the car though.

We all do...that's what this thread is all about now...learning things.

No worries...just drop that one car now...please...you're killing me and everyone reading this thread with the redundancy.