Lancer / Ralliart guys - Track Season is fast approaching
Jan 28, 2012, 09:11 AM
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Lancer / Ralliart guys - Track Season is fast approaching
Lancer / Ralliart guys (new and old) - Track Season is fast approaching. If you guys are looking at getting into the Auto cross / track side of things, there are a few things you need to do now to start preparing.
For mild auto cross and fun track days. It is wise to take your car in for a full inspection. New or not, it is always wise to be safe than sorry. This means inspecting your tires, brake lines, cooling system and most importantly spark plugs for sign of ignition trouble. Spark plugs tell the story of how well your engine is operating over time. After the inspections, you should consider upgrading certain things to get the most out of your track day / auto x sessions. You want to have fun and remain in control.
* Suspension upgrades - for the Lancer & Ralliart, the OE KYB shocks may not stand up to well over time. Using aftermarket springs further compound the problem that the KYB strut is not up to par for extreme handling. A coilover upgrade is recommend but not required - there are about 6 coilover options on the market, you can do your research and make your decision which option is for you. I would recommend again purchasing a Tein basic or ss kit if your main objective is to do a lot of track days or get into more regular competition. These are of twin tube design and are not designed for track use. Stick with a monotube or inverted monotube design
* Brakes Brakes Brakes - It would be wise to upgrade your brake rotors to a better quality rotor. OE will tend to warp or accumulate deposits. If you just upgrade the pads you risk ruining the OE rotor faster due to higher operating temps. Brake fluid is highly recommended. There is nothing worse then boiling your brakes and not being able to stop. It can happen to anyone. Try to avoid going over kill, unless you can afford a dedicate track pad like HAWK HP PLUS, I dont recommend buying those. Too noisy and may bring about a quick death for your rotors before their time.
* * Upgrading your cooling system is recommended by not required - that said, any extra cooling that you can provide your car today will pay dividend down the road for your car overall down the road. Remember, heat kills (cars) lol - Upgrading your rad and if need be installing oil coolers might be the smartest thing you can do. Some people laugh and think, why upgrade a rad on a simple lancer. but like any other setup or car, heat is generated in all combustion engines, how your car handles that heat can mean the difference of having years of problems or almost a decade of bliss. After talking to multiple engineers, one thing they tell me constantly. If your cooling system is out of wack, you will have problems. With everything. - Second point to make would be the use of fresh coolant and if done properly.... the use of coolant additives.
* Tires - If you own a Lancer or a Ralliart 2008+, junk those Dunlop SP 5000M tires and dont look back. They are garbage and dont offer any benefits. They prematurely wear, they are uncomfortable, and are questionable in almost all foul weather. As per a Tirerack survey, just about any tire under the sun in an all season category will beat the Dunlop SP5000M tire. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...jsp?type=UHPAS . I am not going to be unbias about this. I hate this tire and think it is the root of all evil. I am willing to bet it is the leading cause of most lancer ralliart front end accidents. They are terrible. I do not think they are worthy to be on our car, even for track. Upgrading the Lancer tires to a dedicated summer option is one of the best choices you can make. And it will allow you to push your car to it`s limits as you learn the lines of the track or Auto X. My personal recommendation would be the Conti DW tire for summer and Conti DWS as an all season option for their Dry and wet capability. Cause no one hates going to a track day and being stopped by rain! TIRES ARE A MUST!!!
* Oil - The most important thing - Use Synthetic, period. If your tracking the car. Change it often. For driver development style tracking. You should be fine to stick with a regular schedule. But keep it synthetic. I use and recommend Mobil 1, always have and always well. Long before they became a sponsor of our car club. I recommend using a 5w30 for heavy track use for a normal Lancer. Ralliart guys can make the bump up to 5w40. I should also add that the new formulation of 0w20 and 0w30 oils are designed to be superior to 5w20 and 5w30 Mobil 1 in both cold and high heat management.
Says so right on the bottle
* If this is your first time out on the track. Take things slow and seek guidance from those around you who have the experience.
As we get closer to auto X season, I will be posting up events that will be geared towards Lancer and Ralliart owners who wish to learn more about Auto X and driver skill development.
Evosoul
For mild auto cross and fun track days. It is wise to take your car in for a full inspection. New or not, it is always wise to be safe than sorry. This means inspecting your tires, brake lines, cooling system and most importantly spark plugs for sign of ignition trouble. Spark plugs tell the story of how well your engine is operating over time. After the inspections, you should consider upgrading certain things to get the most out of your track day / auto x sessions. You want to have fun and remain in control.
* Suspension upgrades - for the Lancer & Ralliart, the OE KYB shocks may not stand up to well over time. Using aftermarket springs further compound the problem that the KYB strut is not up to par for extreme handling. A coilover upgrade is recommend but not required - there are about 6 coilover options on the market, you can do your research and make your decision which option is for you. I would recommend again purchasing a Tein basic or ss kit if your main objective is to do a lot of track days or get into more regular competition. These are of twin tube design and are not designed for track use. Stick with a monotube or inverted monotube design
* Brakes Brakes Brakes - It would be wise to upgrade your brake rotors to a better quality rotor. OE will tend to warp or accumulate deposits. If you just upgrade the pads you risk ruining the OE rotor faster due to higher operating temps. Brake fluid is highly recommended. There is nothing worse then boiling your brakes and not being able to stop. It can happen to anyone. Try to avoid going over kill, unless you can afford a dedicate track pad like HAWK HP PLUS, I dont recommend buying those. Too noisy and may bring about a quick death for your rotors before their time.
* * Upgrading your cooling system is recommended by not required - that said, any extra cooling that you can provide your car today will pay dividend down the road for your car overall down the road. Remember, heat kills (cars) lol - Upgrading your rad and if need be installing oil coolers might be the smartest thing you can do. Some people laugh and think, why upgrade a rad on a simple lancer. but like any other setup or car, heat is generated in all combustion engines, how your car handles that heat can mean the difference of having years of problems or almost a decade of bliss. After talking to multiple engineers, one thing they tell me constantly. If your cooling system is out of wack, you will have problems. With everything. - Second point to make would be the use of fresh coolant and if done properly.... the use of coolant additives.
* Tires - If you own a Lancer or a Ralliart 2008+, junk those Dunlop SP 5000M tires and dont look back. They are garbage and dont offer any benefits. They prematurely wear, they are uncomfortable, and are questionable in almost all foul weather. As per a Tirerack survey, just about any tire under the sun in an all season category will beat the Dunlop SP5000M tire. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...jsp?type=UHPAS . I am not going to be unbias about this. I hate this tire and think it is the root of all evil. I am willing to bet it is the leading cause of most lancer ralliart front end accidents. They are terrible. I do not think they are worthy to be on our car, even for track. Upgrading the Lancer tires to a dedicated summer option is one of the best choices you can make. And it will allow you to push your car to it`s limits as you learn the lines of the track or Auto X. My personal recommendation would be the Conti DW tire for summer and Conti DWS as an all season option for their Dry and wet capability. Cause no one hates going to a track day and being stopped by rain! TIRES ARE A MUST!!!
* Oil - The most important thing - Use Synthetic, period. If your tracking the car. Change it often. For driver development style tracking. You should be fine to stick with a regular schedule. But keep it synthetic. I use and recommend Mobil 1, always have and always well. Long before they became a sponsor of our car club. I recommend using a 5w30 for heavy track use for a normal Lancer. Ralliart guys can make the bump up to 5w40. I should also add that the new formulation of 0w20 and 0w30 oils are designed to be superior to 5w20 and 5w30 Mobil 1 in both cold and high heat management.
Says so right on the bottle * If this is your first time out on the track. Take things slow and seek guidance from those around you who have the experience.
As we get closer to auto X season, I will be posting up events that will be geared towards Lancer and Ralliart owners who wish to learn more about Auto X and driver skill development.
Evosoul
Last edited by evo_soul; Jan 28, 2012 at 09:34 AM.
Jan 28, 2012, 11:18 AM
#2
Few PMs asking for me to post here.
I'd like to make a distinction between track (HPDE) and Autocross in terms of car setups.
Always inspect your car before any performance driving event. Also a great time to flush fluids and check bushings, tires, bearings, etc.
AX:
Classing, classing, classing. If you've never been, run the car as-is before any modifications. You might find it addicting and want to get into the sport more seriously. In which, modifications for classing becomes very important. Too many mods can throw you into a class that could have some much faster competition.
High Performance Driving Events / Track Days:
Pads and fluids. Pads and fluids. Pads and fluids. You really need nothing else over an open mind to listening to your instructor (always recommend getting another set of eyes or comments - even I will grab one) and learning to what the car is telling you. Good track approved pads and DOT4 fluids will ensure you don't over cook the brakes (common to newer track driver to over-brake) and for more experience drivers - we compress brake zones (aka lots of heat in short amount of time).
Mod path?
Pads, fluids, then tires. It's a bit more complicated. But all starts there. Truth is most drivers have more car than they can drive. But many think they are F1 drivers who need 1239183x parts to go fast.
Suspension:
Do not agree about KYBs not being up to events. We have 96000 miles on our 2008 GTS on stock components (its been AX'd). Also not true about springs. Struts do not care where they stroke from. They do care about bottoming out. Most springs for the 2008+ Lancer work within the KYB valving and do not slam the car.
Suspension mod path:
Stock. Stock + sway bars + bushings. Springs + sway bars + bushings. Coilovers + sway bars + bushings.
Brakes:
OEM rotors are good. Do not get drilled rotors - period. Most proper event organizers have moved to not or strongly recommending against drilled. Holes crack. Cracks fail rotors. Slotted are OK, but more pretty than functional with modern pad material and de-gassing properties.
Motorsports will wear items faster. You're pushing the car more. Got to pay to play.
Pads - MOT and drag coefficient. MOT is max operating temp - range of where pad will work optimally. Drag coefficient is in simple terms bite. Closer to 1 = more bite. Most track pads have range of 0.45-0.55 drag. Different brands offer different modulation or initial bite. Really depends on preference.
Track pads for track days. Most are not street pads. In-between pads will offer between levels of performance...not best for street and/or not best for track. AX can use very good street-abled pads. Hawk HP+ is not a track pad. More of an AX pad. Very noisy on street.
DOT4 fluid - do it. AX, street, track. Cheap to flush. Not expensive fluids out there.
Stainless steel lines - track and AX. Will give more consistent pedal feel over heat build up.
Have not had cooling issues in the 04 RA, 05 Evo, or 08 GTS. If you are having cooling issues other causes might be in there (failed fans, headgaskets, etc). Get it checked out.
Tires:
Pretty bold statements about Dunlops. OEM tires are requested by the car companies to meet their own specific characteristics for a broad market. Take his comments with a large dose of salt. Are there better tires for DD, AX, Track - you bet. Picking the right tire for your usage is key.
Fluids:
Changing weight (not talking winter level here) can have ill effects on a motor. They designed the car to run Xw20. I'd consult an engine guilder for the 4b11-12 on what oils to use.
*Mobil 1 is not true synthetic anymore.
First timers - instruction is best.
Enjoy the season!
(Just a guy with years of performance driving... )
I'd like to make a distinction between track (HPDE) and Autocross in terms of car setups.
Always inspect your car before any performance driving event. Also a great time to flush fluids and check bushings, tires, bearings, etc.
AX:
Classing, classing, classing. If you've never been, run the car as-is before any modifications. You might find it addicting and want to get into the sport more seriously. In which, modifications for classing becomes very important. Too many mods can throw you into a class that could have some much faster competition.
High Performance Driving Events / Track Days:
Pads and fluids. Pads and fluids. Pads and fluids. You really need nothing else over an open mind to listening to your instructor (always recommend getting another set of eyes or comments - even I will grab one) and learning to what the car is telling you. Good track approved pads and DOT4 fluids will ensure you don't over cook the brakes (common to newer track driver to over-brake) and for more experience drivers - we compress brake zones (aka lots of heat in short amount of time).
Mod path?
Pads, fluids, then tires. It's a bit more complicated. But all starts there. Truth is most drivers have more car than they can drive. But many think they are F1 drivers who need 1239183x parts to go fast.
Suspension:
Do not agree about KYBs not being up to events. We have 96000 miles on our 2008 GTS on stock components (its been AX'd). Also not true about springs. Struts do not care where they stroke from. They do care about bottoming out. Most springs for the 2008+ Lancer work within the KYB valving and do not slam the car.
Suspension mod path:
Stock. Stock + sway bars + bushings. Springs + sway bars + bushings. Coilovers + sway bars + bushings.
Brakes:
OEM rotors are good. Do not get drilled rotors - period. Most proper event organizers have moved to not or strongly recommending against drilled. Holes crack. Cracks fail rotors. Slotted are OK, but more pretty than functional with modern pad material and de-gassing properties.
Motorsports will wear items faster. You're pushing the car more. Got to pay to play.
Pads - MOT and drag coefficient. MOT is max operating temp - range of where pad will work optimally. Drag coefficient is in simple terms bite. Closer to 1 = more bite. Most track pads have range of 0.45-0.55 drag. Different brands offer different modulation or initial bite. Really depends on preference.
Track pads for track days. Most are not street pads. In-between pads will offer between levels of performance...not best for street and/or not best for track. AX can use very good street-abled pads. Hawk HP+ is not a track pad. More of an AX pad. Very noisy on street.
DOT4 fluid - do it. AX, street, track. Cheap to flush. Not expensive fluids out there.
Stainless steel lines - track and AX. Will give more consistent pedal feel over heat build up.
Have not had cooling issues in the 04 RA, 05 Evo, or 08 GTS. If you are having cooling issues other causes might be in there (failed fans, headgaskets, etc). Get it checked out.
Tires:
Pretty bold statements about Dunlops. OEM tires are requested by the car companies to meet their own specific characteristics for a broad market. Take his comments with a large dose of salt. Are there better tires for DD, AX, Track - you bet. Picking the right tire for your usage is key.
Fluids:
Changing weight (not talking winter level here) can have ill effects on a motor. They designed the car to run Xw20. I'd consult an engine guilder for the 4b11-12 on what oils to use.
*Mobil 1 is not true synthetic anymore.
First timers - instruction is best.
Enjoy the season!
(Just a guy with years of performance driving...
)
Jan 28, 2012, 06:59 PM
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Hey folks, actually just came here to post up an autocross newcomers classing guide to help everyone out. I'll put in it in a separate thread. It's intended as a 'general' newcomers guide. Experienced Mitsi competitors here will be able to give you much better help specific to your platform.
Also, if you're considering tracking this year, check out Ontario Time Attack.
They have an awesome calendar put together featuring events at Mosport DDT, Mosport International Raceway, Cayuga, Shannonville and Grand Bend Raceway.
Events are typically a lot cheaper than normal trackdays due to the sponsors picking up a portion of the tab. The mornings are set aside for 'practice', which is basically open lapping sharing the track with drivers that you can have confidence in to act safely. In the afternoons you get to be bitten by the competitive bug and set your timed runs.
Check out the Ontario Time Attack forum for more info: http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11
We'll have a Time Attack school at Mosport DDT on May 5th & 6th and another at Mosport International Raceway on July 28th and 29th. Personally, I can't wait...
Also, if you're considering tracking this year, check out Ontario Time Attack.
They have an awesome calendar put together featuring events at Mosport DDT, Mosport International Raceway, Cayuga, Shannonville and Grand Bend Raceway.
Events are typically a lot cheaper than normal trackdays due to the sponsors picking up a portion of the tab. The mornings are set aside for 'practice', which is basically open lapping sharing the track with drivers that you can have confidence in to act safely. In the afternoons you get to be bitten by the competitive bug and set your timed runs.
Check out the Ontario Time Attack forum for more info: http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11
We'll have a Time Attack school at Mosport DDT on May 5th & 6th and another at Mosport International Raceway on July 28th and 29th. Personally, I can't wait...
Jan 29, 2012, 06:45 AM
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Just from personal experience, Hawk HP Plus pads have great bite, will overheat if you do long sessions on the track. For time attack, they are probably fine, but if you are on the track for 10-15 minutes, the pads will exceed their upper heat limit. I called Hawk support, and they confirmed the upper heat limit of the pad is lower than with other brands of track oriented pads.
Last edited by TrailBrake; Jan 29, 2012 at 06:49 AM.
Jan 29, 2012, 09:40 AM
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Agreed. EBC make good pads as well. For all-out track pads, in my former ride I used Pagid Black RS-14 pads and they were excellent. They are a dedicated track pad though and need to some heat in them before they work well. I'm not sure if those are available for the Mitsu line.
Last edited by TrailBrake; Jan 30, 2012 at 04:42 AM.
Jan 29, 2012, 01:06 PM
#7
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Tires:
Pretty bold statements about Dunlops. OEM tires are requested by the car companies to meet their own specific characteristics for a broad market. Take his comments with a large dose of salt. Are there better tires for DD, AX, Track - you bet. Picking the right tire for your usage is key.
Pretty bold statements about Dunlops. OEM tires are requested by the car companies to meet their own specific characteristics for a broad market. Take his comments with a large dose of salt. Are there better tires for DD, AX, Track - you bet. Picking the right tire for your usage is key.
There were a handful of concerns that were raised and before I made the post I attempted to raise issues that should be address and added a few that I thought should be addressed based on personal experience with my lancer and project cars as the feedback of a majority of local car club owners.
Since I really dont want to hash back and forth with you and get far off topic What I will reaffirm is my stance on tires.
1. Dunlop SP5000M tires SPECIFICALLY THIS TIRE for Lancer 2008+ 18 + Canadian Spec Ralliart owners who have the same tire. USA SPEC lancers are not equipped with Dunlop SP5000M tires.
Tires:
Pretty bold statements about Dunlops. OEM tires are requested by the car companies to meet their own specific characteristics for a broad market. Take his comments with a large dose of salt. Are there better tires for DD, AX, Track - you bet. Picking the right tire for your usage is key.
I have done considerable research on this subject and while you are right Mitsubishi did provide this specification and tire companies bid for the contract. Certain factors made the SP5000M a good choice for manufacturing in 2007 for the new lancer. Cost and production of the tire in Japan. Unfortunately, The car was plagued with serious issues with tire wear / premature tread death and car wondering left issues. Some say it was issues with the rim other say it was the tire. The point is, in 2008 and 2009. A majority of lancer GTS owners reported the issues I mentioned above. I myself had this issue and had my tire warranty invalidated by Dunlop. And wasnt it the funniest thing.
See, our Mitsubishi manual says to rotate the tires every 12000km, which I did. But apparently Dunlops policy on that tire was for me to rotate my tires every 8000km. It went back and forth, Dunlop said it was my fault and I should check my alignment, Mitsubishi would say my alignment is within spec, check with Dunlop. Many of our club members went thru the same feedback loop. Eventually you would give up and buy new tires just to be done with it.
There are other problems which has me take this firm stance of not wanting this tire on any Mitsubishi Lancer vehicle.
A) Winter
B) Rain coupled with premature wear
But to be honest you would have to own the car and tire to know what I am talking about. I have no other beef with Dunlop other than the OE tire. This particular tire is not safe and when speaking with my insurance company. It is no surprise that the Lancer GTS was involved in a unsually high rate of front end accidents. We who own this car here in Canada since 2008 have seen our insurance rates creep higher. To give a contrast. I have driven with the OE tires selected for the Lancer 2008+ 16 inch. Those Yokohama tires are great. And Mitsubishi did justice by selecting a great factory tire. Capable in all seasons, and no issues or ill effects on the vehicle (pulling to the left or premature wear)
I have considerable concerns about this tire and in good conscience would not recommend anyone to use it for any reason. Daily driver, track, or paper weight.
Dunlop makes better tires and I would say use anything else under the sun. Just dont use this tire.
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Jan 29, 2012, 01:10 PM
#8
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Hey folks, actually just came here to post up an autocross newcomers classing guide to help everyone out. I'll put in it in a separate thread. It's intended as a 'general' newcomers guide. Experienced Mitsi competitors here will be able to give you much better help specific to your platform.
Also, if you're considering tracking this year, check out Ontario Time Attack.
They have an awesome calendar put together featuring events at Mosport DDT, Mosport International Raceway, Cayuga, Shannonville and Grand Bend Raceway.
Events are typically a lot cheaper than normal trackdays due to the sponsors picking up a portion of the tab. The mornings are set aside for 'practice', which is basically open lapping sharing the track with drivers that you can have confidence in to act safely. In the afternoons you get to be bitten by the competitive bug and set your timed runs.
Check out the Ontario Time Attack forum for more info: http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11
We'll have a Time Attack school at Mosport DDT on May 5th & 6th and another at Mosport International Raceway on July 28th and 29th. Personally, I can't wait...
Also, if you're considering tracking this year, check out Ontario Time Attack.
They have an awesome calendar put together featuring events at Mosport DDT, Mosport International Raceway, Cayuga, Shannonville and Grand Bend Raceway.
Events are typically a lot cheaper than normal trackdays due to the sponsors picking up a portion of the tab. The mornings are set aside for 'practice', which is basically open lapping sharing the track with drivers that you can have confidence in to act safely. In the afternoons you get to be bitten by the competitive bug and set your timed runs.
Check out the Ontario Time Attack forum for more info: http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11
We'll have a Time Attack school at Mosport DDT on May 5th & 6th and another at Mosport International Raceway on July 28th and 29th. Personally, I can't wait...
cant wait
Jan 29, 2012, 09:26 PM
#9
And this shows your ignorance as a car owner. Your anecdotal is far from the facts.
PS - your local people were some of the people that asked me to post.
Its a daily driver tire. Clean. Clear. Simple. UHP All-seasons and track able tires are way different things.
Fact - most Mitsubishis in US have terrible alignments. Likely from shipping or poor factory jobs. We knew that on the 03 Evo. Same on the 04 RA. And 2008 GTS we have.
Most manufactures recommend 5000 mi (8k) rotations. Car manufactures are not tire manufactures.
Within spec, just means it was within some values they have created. Not if those values are correct for the car or not. You can customize an alignment. That plays a huge factor into handling.
I have a 2008 GTS with 96000 miles. You're trying to compare the DE 16in wheels to 18in GTS? Think about that.
That's one hell of a stretch. Lancers have always had high crash rates. Evo as well. Hint: car owners cause the crashes. You in now way can attribute crashing to tires. If you could, any lawyer worth his salt would have sued for defective engineering.
< in the automotive manufacturing business.
PS - your local people were some of the people that asked me to post.
Its a daily driver tire. Clean. Clear. Simple. UHP All-seasons and track able tires are way different things.
Fact - most Mitsubishis in US have terrible alignments. Likely from shipping or poor factory jobs. We knew that on the 03 Evo. Same on the 04 RA. And 2008 GTS we have.
Most manufactures recommend 5000 mi (8k) rotations. Car manufactures are not tire manufactures.
Within spec, just means it was within some values they have created. Not if those values are correct for the car or not. You can customize an alignment. That plays a huge factor into handling.
I have a 2008 GTS with 96000 miles. You're trying to compare the DE 16in wheels to 18in GTS? Think about that.
That's one hell of a stretch. Lancers have always had high crash rates. Evo as well. Hint: car owners cause the crashes. You in now way can attribute crashing to tires. If you could, any lawyer worth his salt would have sued for defective engineering.
< in the automotive manufacturing business.
While, I value further information being brought to the table. I have spent a great deal of time speaking with Mitsubishi corp about activities extending beyond normal daily driving. While our regional Mitsubishi authority will not sanction these activities for those under warranty. They have advised hints for those who are not under warranty. The post was to those who will be joining in track day events and local competition in auto x or motorsport events like ATTS or CSCS which are active in the Local Toronto Area.
There were a handful of concerns that were raised and before I made the post I attempted to raise issues that should be address and added a few that I thought should be addressed based on personal experience with my lancer and project cars as the feedback of a majority of local car club owners.
Since I really dont want to hash back and forth with you and get far off topic What I will reaffirm is my stance on tires.
1. Dunlop SP5000M tires SPECIFICALLY THIS TIRE for Lancer 2008+ 18 + Canadian Spec Ralliart owners who have the same tire. USA SPEC lancers are not equipped with Dunlop SP5000M tires.
Tires:
Pretty bold statements about Dunlops. OEM tires are requested by the car companies to meet their own specific characteristics for a broad market. Take his comments with a large dose of salt. Are there better tires for DD, AX, Track - you bet. Picking the right tire for your usage is key.
I have done considerable research on this subject and while you are right Mitsubishi did provide this specification and tire companies bid for the contract. Certain factors made the SP5000M a good choice for manufacturing in 2007 for the new lancer. Cost and production of the tire in Japan. Unfortunately, The car was plagued with serious issues with tire wear / premature tread death and car wondering left issues. Some say it was issues with the rim other say it was the tire. The point is, in 2008 and 2009. A majority of lancer GTS owners reported the issues I mentioned above. I myself had this issue and had my tire warranty invalidated by Dunlop. And wasnt it the funniest thing.
See, our Mitsubishi manual says to rotate the tires every 12000km, which I did. But apparently Dunlops policy on that tire was for me to rotate my tires every 8000km. It went back and forth, Dunlop said it was my fault and I should check my alignment, Mitsubishi would say my alignment is within spec, check with Dunlop. Many of our club members went thru the same feedback loop. Eventually you would give up and buy new tires just to be done with it.
There are other problems which has me take this firm stance of not wanting this tire on any Mitsubishi Lancer vehicle.
A) Winter
B) Rain coupled with premature wear
But to be honest you would have to own the car and tire to know what I am talking about. I have no other beef with Dunlop other than the OE tire. This particular tire is not safe and when speaking with my insurance company. It is no surprise that the Lancer GTS was involved in a unsually high rate of front end accidents. We who own this car here in Canada since 2008 have seen our insurance rates creep higher. To give a contrast. I have driven with the OE tires selected for the Lancer 2008+ 16 inch. Those Yokohama tires are great. And Mitsubishi did justice by selecting a great factory tire. Capable in all seasons, and no issues or ill effects on the vehicle (pulling to the left or premature wear)
I have considerable concerns about this tire and in good conscience would not recommend anyone to use it for any reason. Daily driver, track, or paper weight.
Dunlop makes better tires and I would say use anything else under the sun. Just dont use this tire.
There were a handful of concerns that were raised and before I made the post I attempted to raise issues that should be address and added a few that I thought should be addressed based on personal experience with my lancer and project cars as the feedback of a majority of local car club owners.
Since I really dont want to hash back and forth with you and get far off topic What I will reaffirm is my stance on tires.
1. Dunlop SP5000M tires SPECIFICALLY THIS TIRE for Lancer 2008+ 18 + Canadian Spec Ralliart owners who have the same tire. USA SPEC lancers are not equipped with Dunlop SP5000M tires.
Tires:
Pretty bold statements about Dunlops. OEM tires are requested by the car companies to meet their own specific characteristics for a broad market. Take his comments with a large dose of salt. Are there better tires for DD, AX, Track - you bet. Picking the right tire for your usage is key.
I have done considerable research on this subject and while you are right Mitsubishi did provide this specification and tire companies bid for the contract. Certain factors made the SP5000M a good choice for manufacturing in 2007 for the new lancer. Cost and production of the tire in Japan. Unfortunately, The car was plagued with serious issues with tire wear / premature tread death and car wondering left issues. Some say it was issues with the rim other say it was the tire. The point is, in 2008 and 2009. A majority of lancer GTS owners reported the issues I mentioned above. I myself had this issue and had my tire warranty invalidated by Dunlop. And wasnt it the funniest thing.
See, our Mitsubishi manual says to rotate the tires every 12000km, which I did. But apparently Dunlops policy on that tire was for me to rotate my tires every 8000km. It went back and forth, Dunlop said it was my fault and I should check my alignment, Mitsubishi would say my alignment is within spec, check with Dunlop. Many of our club members went thru the same feedback loop. Eventually you would give up and buy new tires just to be done with it.
There are other problems which has me take this firm stance of not wanting this tire on any Mitsubishi Lancer vehicle.
A) Winter
B) Rain coupled with premature wear
But to be honest you would have to own the car and tire to know what I am talking about. I have no other beef with Dunlop other than the OE tire. This particular tire is not safe and when speaking with my insurance company. It is no surprise that the Lancer GTS was involved in a unsually high rate of front end accidents. We who own this car here in Canada since 2008 have seen our insurance rates creep higher. To give a contrast. I have driven with the OE tires selected for the Lancer 2008+ 16 inch. Those Yokohama tires are great. And Mitsubishi did justice by selecting a great factory tire. Capable in all seasons, and no issues or ill effects on the vehicle (pulling to the left or premature wear)
I have considerable concerns about this tire and in good conscience would not recommend anyone to use it for any reason. Daily driver, track, or paper weight.
Dunlop makes better tires and I would say use anything else under the sun. Just dont use this tire.
Last edited by Smike; Jan 30, 2012 at 05:03 AM.
Jan 30, 2012, 07:45 AM
#10
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And this shows your ignorance as a car owner. Your anecdotal is far from the facts.
PS - your local people were some of the people that asked me to post.
Its a daily driver tire. Clean. Clear. Simple. UHP All-seasons and track able tires are way different things.
Fact - most Mitsubishis in US have terrible alignments. Likely from shipping or poor factory jobs. We knew that on the 03 Evo. Same on the 04 RA. And 2008 GTS we have.
Most manufactures recommend 5000 mi (8k) rotations. Car manufactures are not tire manufactures.
Within spec, just means it was within some values they have created. Not if those values are correct for the car or not. You can customize an alignment. That plays a huge factor into handling.
I have a 2008 GTS with 96000 miles. You're trying to compare the DE 16in wheels to 18in GTS? Think about that.
That's one hell of a stretch. Lancers have always had high crash rates. Evo as well. Hint: car owners cause the crashes. You in now way can attribute crashing to tires. If you could, any lawyer worth his salt would have sued for defective engineering.
< in the automotive manufacturing business.
PS - your local people were some of the people that asked me to post.
Its a daily driver tire. Clean. Clear. Simple. UHP All-seasons and track able tires are way different things.
Fact - most Mitsubishis in US have terrible alignments. Likely from shipping or poor factory jobs. We knew that on the 03 Evo. Same on the 04 RA. And 2008 GTS we have.
Most manufactures recommend 5000 mi (8k) rotations. Car manufactures are not tire manufactures.
Within spec, just means it was within some values they have created. Not if those values are correct for the car or not. You can customize an alignment. That plays a huge factor into handling.
I have a 2008 GTS with 96000 miles. You're trying to compare the DE 16in wheels to 18in GTS? Think about that.
That's one hell of a stretch. Lancers have always had high crash rates. Evo as well. Hint: car owners cause the crashes. You in now way can attribute crashing to tires. If you could, any lawyer worth his salt would have sued for defective engineering.
< in the automotive manufacturing business.
Yes I have a beef with one tire. With my opinion, based on my own experience and the experience of a lot of people around me. I am specifically speaking about the Dunlop SP5000M tire on the Lancer and Ralliart (Canada) 2008+ current gen.
If you want to defend this tire and you think its good and safe. I am all for it. We all have an opinion. Personally, I have problems with this tire and don't think its safe. Wouldnt recommend it to anyone, and I go out of my way to have people change the tires. That's just me. If that offends you, or anyone else. Sorry, but I will say what needs to be said. It's just my humble opinion.
I am sure you have a wealth of good expertise on tires you can share. But we are more or less getting off topic from what the thread was originally started for. Perhaps we can reactivate one of the many threads created about this particular topic.
If you want other reviews of this particular tire, I invite you to breeze thru the tirerack customer experiences http://www.tirerack.com/survey/Surve...%3D145VR85000M I think its safe to say they sum up common themes.In regards to the facts that you bring up about "Fact - most Mitsubishis in US have terrible alignments. Likely from shipping or poor factory jobs. We knew that on the 03 Evo. Same on the 04 RA. And 2008 GTS we have." If you want to blame that on shipping or poor factory jobs. Sure... its your opinion. I am not talking about any other car but the lancer GTS. I find it hard to believe that so many of one variant of one car (GTS) have bad alignment issues from bad shipping or someone falling a sleep in a production line when GTS vehicles pass and not any of the other variants. Think about it, if this was alignment then it would affect all lancers. Why are there so few reports of the other trims and so many of the GTS's.
We had an unusually warm winter and we expect spring to arrive early as well. It is our hope to officially kick off a TLC driver development and track days early. Get out there and have some fun.
Jan 30, 2012, 03:24 PM
#11
I am basing what I write in fact. I have much more information here.
Most Mitsubishi's have bad alignments. My point is all that we have posting on this board have had issues or complaints about the "spec". Why don't we see the DE Lancers *****ing about it? How many DE Lancers are on the forums? Forums are truly very very small in the big picture.
In regards to the facts that you bring up about "Fact - most Mitsubishis in US have terrible alignments. Likely from shipping or poor factory jobs. We knew that on the 03 Evo. Same on the 04 RA. And 2008 GTS we have." If you want to blame that on shipping or poor factory jobs. Sure... its your opinion. I am not talking about any other car but the lancer GTS. I find it hard to believe that so many of one variant of one car (GTS) have bad alignment issues from bad shipping or someone falling a sleep in a production line when GTS vehicles pass and not any of the other variants. Think about it, if this was alignment then it would affect all lancers. Why are there so few reports of the other trims and so many of the GTS's.
Jan 31, 2012, 04:24 AM
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For full race cars, it is often done after every race. The time moves out to every 6 months or so for street cars that lap a lot. I have seen the requirement for brake fluid change within the past 6 months on the checklist of items for more than one track day organizer.
In general, if you lap 4 or 5 times a year, changing the fluid once a year will suffice. Use of a high-temp fluid like ATE super blue/typ 200 gold or Motul RBF600 is highly recommended. ATE fluid seems to absorb less moisture than Motul.
In general, if you lap 4 or 5 times a year, changing the fluid once a year will suffice. Use of a high-temp fluid like ATE super blue/typ 200 gold or Motul RBF600 is highly recommended. ATE fluid seems to absorb less moisture than Motul.
Last edited by TrailBrake; Jan 31, 2012 at 04:30 AM.
Feb 1, 2012, 08:57 AM
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Rbf600 is what I use crester.
Oh and the dunlops suck..way worst then wanlis haha. I had em on my lancer GTS for 7000km an almost crashed 5 times cuz lack of grip in summer in the rain. That's a pathetic tire. Even the wanlis can hold upto track days/drag/cornering. Mind you the inner sidewalks all crack
Oh and the dunlops suck..way worst then wanlis haha. I had em on my lancer GTS for 7000km an almost crashed 5 times cuz lack of grip in summer in the rain. That's a pathetic tire. Even the wanlis can hold upto track days/drag/cornering. Mind you the inner sidewalks all crack