AMS steps up the connecting rod scene
Aug 21, 2008, 09:19 PM
#17
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Groden Aluminum rod DD Evo owner checking in
After 1st reading this thread I went and added up all my passes this year so far. 34 passes so far, all passes but 5 where on all out kick azz (race gas and 40psi). Dont think I dont once rev to 9k when I drive my car on either gas. On a DJ dyno I "should" be around 775 to 800whp based off the Dynoflash Evo.
I have just over 3300 miles on the engine. With that kind of abuse I would say aluminum may be OK for DD.
Buschur will however freashen up the engine this winter. I will either go aluminum again or Titanium
Nice Rods AMS!!!
After 1st reading this thread I went and added up all my passes this year so far. 34 passes so far, all passes but 5 where on all out kick azz (race gas and 40psi). Dont think I dont once rev to 9k when I drive my car on either gas. On a DJ dyno I "should" be around 775 to 800whp based off the Dynoflash Evo.
I have just over 3300 miles on the engine. With that kind of abuse I would say aluminum may be OK for DD.
Buschur will however freashen up the engine this winter. I will either go aluminum again or Titanium
Nice Rods AMS!!!
Aug 21, 2008, 10:36 PM
#18
A Word of Caution:
No one in this forum has put enough miles onto an aluminum rod set to demonstrate anything where typical street use is concerned. A few thousand miles isn't enough to determine anything. The only way to get a feel for how long they last is for multiple examples to drive them until failure. Drag engines that use them are rebuilt periodically, so it's not so much of an issue. This is why not one OEM uses aluminum rods. One should ask himself how long he expects to go until his next rebuild, and compare that against known examples that went that distance (if they exist).
The problem with aluminum is that it fatigues with the number of compression and expansion events, regardless of how well it is built or if it's being subjected to 100hp or 1000hp. Eventually it WILL go. When, not if, is the question. When it does, it always seems to do so with catastrophic results.
The question is if the benefits outweight the risks. Just keep in mind that there is NO warranty for your engine. Keep in mind that Groden's ad copy claims the same thing as BME, "At Groden Racing Rods we have eliminated rod failure with space age strength aluminum that allows no temperature growth." This carries no weight or liability in the real world. The rod maker may warranty the rods, but the cost for them to replace them is peanuts. One is SOL for everything else should/when a failure occur, and for those who are paying retail (i.e. those who don't work in a shop or aren't sponsored by one), that usually amounts effectively to retail cost for a replacement engine. Neither BME nor AMS is going to ante up to fix it, so you are on your own. Be advised.
Just know the risks.
No one in this forum has put enough miles onto an aluminum rod set to demonstrate anything where typical street use is concerned. A few thousand miles isn't enough to determine anything. The only way to get a feel for how long they last is for multiple examples to drive them until failure. Drag engines that use them are rebuilt periodically, so it's not so much of an issue. This is why not one OEM uses aluminum rods. One should ask himself how long he expects to go until his next rebuild, and compare that against known examples that went that distance (if they exist).
The problem with aluminum is that it fatigues with the number of compression and expansion events, regardless of how well it is built or if it's being subjected to 100hp or 1000hp. Eventually it WILL go. When, not if, is the question. When it does, it always seems to do so with catastrophic results.
The question is if the benefits outweight the risks. Just keep in mind that there is NO warranty for your engine. Keep in mind that Groden's ad copy claims the same thing as BME, "At Groden Racing Rods we have eliminated rod failure with space age strength aluminum that allows no temperature growth." This carries no weight or liability in the real world. The rod maker may warranty the rods, but the cost for them to replace them is peanuts. One is SOL for everything else should/when a failure occur, and for those who are paying retail (i.e. those who don't work in a shop or aren't sponsored by one), that usually amounts effectively to retail cost for a replacement engine. Neither BME nor AMS is going to ante up to fix it, so you are on your own. Be advised.
Just know the risks.
Last edited by Ted B; Aug 21, 2008 at 10:39 PM.
Aug 22, 2008, 07:48 AM
#19
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Al whats up buddy!!!
Ted B this is an open forum and you can say whatever you want.
I also wanna say that I am more than happy with my choice to go aluminum. As far as I know Dave, Al and I are the only 1's I know of using the rods on cars that are DD or can be.
I made a pass earlier this year in my car at 40psi on the race gas map but I had pump gas in the car... I screwed up being so new to AEM. Knock volts where retarted high, in the 7 range. I feel that with a steel rod I may have screwed myself.
AMS is wise for ofering these rods for there engines!
Ted B this is an open forum and you can say whatever you want.
I also wanna say that I am more than happy with my choice to go aluminum. As far as I know Dave, Al and I are the only 1's I know of using the rods on cars that are DD or can be.
I made a pass earlier this year in my car at 40psi on the race gas map but I had pump gas in the car... I screwed up being so new to AEM. Knock volts where retarted high, in the 7 range. I feel that with a steel rod I may have screwed myself.
AMS is wise for ofering these rods for there engines!
Aug 22, 2008, 08:01 AM
#20
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I will side on Ted B's advise.
Awsome rod's for the Race Evo's on here, maybe not so for the DD's. I would have to see a few examples with 20-30k miles on about 400-500 hp range to be satisfied.
Awsome rod's for the Race Evo's on here, maybe not so for the DD's. I would have to see a few examples with 20-30k miles on about 400-500 hp range to be satisfied.
Aug 22, 2008, 08:33 AM
#21
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I side with TedB as well. But that does not stop me from running Aluminum rods in my 2G street car, the only difference is I overhaul the engine after about 8k miles or so, and drop the pan every 2500 miles to retorque the rod bolts. I dont suggest these for a street car unless one plans to do the same. 
Aug 22, 2008, 11:45 AM
#24
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eh yeah. I just got my back together from being down for over a year. I dont plan on tearing into it anymore. 
I like the pimpness of carbon connecting rods. Yes they make them, just very expensive
I like the pimpness of carbon connecting rods. Yes they make them, just very expensive
Aug 22, 2008, 12:01 PM
#25
Everyone has to define what they consider as a 'DD'. To me, a 'DD' is a car that should go at least 50k miles or more without needing a rebuild and without a catastrophic engine-related failure. Everything I do keeps that minimum figure in perspective. Each has to determine what is practical to him, and what he's willing to risk. Again, shops and sponsored persons won't pay anywhere near what you do if they experience a failure, so they can be much more liberal in what they choose to do.
As far as claims of longevity, the burden of proof remains on those who make such claims, because the overwhelming consensus of the industry is and has always been otherwise. The day that an Al rod delivers the longevity of a steel rod is the day that Ti rods become extinct due to their extraordinary cost (ask GM, Porsche, Acura, BMW, etc.). That has not happened, and it may never happen.
But again, if one plans frequent rebuilds and buys new rods each time, it's largely a non-issue.
Last edited by Ted B; Aug 22, 2008 at 04:30 PM.
Sep 3, 2008, 10:21 PM
#27
I am at 12k and some change now beating the carp out of my car with no problems yet. Really is a double edge sword though. If you really want 600+ whp all the time and not worry about rod bearings then Alum is the only way to go.
I am talking ripping on it all the time with E85, meth or 30psi pump gas tune and ripping on it ever chance you get,
I am talking ripping on it all the time with E85, meth or 30psi pump gas tune and ripping on it ever chance you get,
Sep 4, 2008, 11:08 AM
#30
And my only personal direct comparison for aluminum to titanium is in mountain bikes. From that, I know that titanium has a lot more "give" than aluminum, which is known to be very rigid (the reason aluminum became big was you could have thinwall aluminum bike that were as sturdy as steel).