aftershock141

iTrader: (9)

I will be purchasing one from you guys in the spring. Hopefully you guys still have some or are getting more in by then.

I can totally understand the knockoff side though. I just don't want to deal with fitment or quality issues.

bouncintiga

iTrader: (2)

exactly, first to market is a good advantage. If you only need to sell 10 more to break even then it makes good business sense to lower the price, increase your market share (kill competition) and break even at higher numbers instead of waiting to get 10 people to buy your product at 1k. If you had 20 customers at $500 you essentially break even at the same point. Then you increase your market share because more people will want to buy the product at a lower price (and with the knowledge that it is a quality ORIGINAL do luck product).

robh

iTrader: (1)

+1 to that

BPAuto

iTrader: (10)

Really? I mean really?!? There's a reason the parts that come from Japan cost as much as they do. Your market model assumes that we are basically getting the trunk for free. That's simply not how it works and we have to make money to stay in business so we can't adjust our margins beyond where they are now and continue to function as a business.

-Patrick

Kracka

iTrader: (49)

All you knock-off lovers are going to be quite sad when there is no more brand names to rip off of the people you make fun of for spending the big money for the real thing take your advice and stop supporting the companies with original ideas/products.

meanmud

iTrader: (74)

Original stuff = A-/B+

Knock-offs = C-, at best.

BPAuto

iTrader: (10)

I'm glad you seem to understand this issue all the way through. The end result of this situation is no more products to knock off and everyone loses. It's no secret that almost everyone absolutely loves the Do-Luck trunk and that it has the potential to make the rear of the car, but it would be very difficult to justify ever making a part like it in the future if people just flock to a knockoff.

-Patrick

kimletrim

iTrader: (18)

Then just don't fund or make any more parts! You make it sound like everything that comes out of a certain company or certain country is top-notch and well-received. Granted, I think the trunk looks great, I don't think the all of products that come from Japan is aesthetically or functionally desirable.

So you sell 6 trunks...that is a lot? You were hedging your bets on this design by artificially keeping the production numbers low, to minimize possible losses from the product. If you really believed in the trunk, why not just make more so you could bring the cost down and make it attainable to a greater number of Evo owners. And your complaints about copies is not exclusive to Evos - that is well known. So stop blaming Evo owners.

Finally, let's face it. The products that come out of the aftermarket community, and to some extent the car companies, is akin to prescription drugs, or even OTC drugs for that matter. Drugs can be approved by the FDA, but the true test is when it is used by the public at large. The public is the guinea pig for drugs, just like it is for aftermarket parts. Parts can be recalled just like drugs. We really don't know how well received a part is until it becomes available. And guess what, there is such a thing as a generic drug and it sells for less than the popular name brand.

h22gordo

iTrader: (18)

^ Well said.

Basically, the OP is saying stop buying knockoffs so that Ben at Bulletproof can mark up his inventory and make his BIG money!

I love how they mention "our Do-Luck Trunk." You guys are just the importer, thats all. You arent Do Luck, you aren't manufacturing it. Quit making it sound like you are gods gift to car parts. You guys are expensive, you don't carry **** in stock, you constantly are caught in lies, and quite frankly I find all of you have arrogant attitudes.....especially that one in charge.....

bouncintiga

iTrader: (2)

actually i didn't assume anything except for what you stated in your link about needed to sell 10 trunks to get closer to breaking even. Of course I may have neglected some shipping costs from japan (assumed that's built into the price of the current trunks). And granted shipping 20 vs shipping 10 from japan wont save you a ton of money unless you ship a whole container of them. But do the math on shipping a container and see what price savings you can achieve. given the number of positive responses to the do luck trunk you already have an indication of what the market looks like. If you're worried about the lack of a market, start a poll thread and see what people will pay. This is simply good entrepreneurship nothing more nothing less, I haven't tried to demean you in anyway i've just been giving the exact same lessons taught to me. A lot of businesses assume there is a market for their product, and maybe there is for yours but there's an even bigger market for your product if you cut the price by $100-200. Good entrepreneurs do the cold calls and find out what people will pay for. If you find any of this hard to believe take an entrepreneurship class at your local community college and you'll see what I mean.

And that's not to say I don't understand the concept of knock off companies killing the design companies but the FACT is companies who don't innovate FAST enough are the ones that get swallowed up by someone else who can do it better or faster. As told to me, "you don't want to be the middleman in the value chain" because anyone can do that and anyone who can do it better/faster will win. It's the simple cold hard truth. Did you read the article I posted (post#12)? There is a lot of insight to be gained from it in starting a new venture but I digress.

Again, good luck to you I hope you can understand i've only been trying to impart some good business sense.

BPAuto

iTrader: (10)

Hello,

My name is Hunter and I use to have the pleasure of being the Bulletproof Liaison here on EvolutionM. During my time at Bulletproof Automotive and here on EvoM I personally have not witnessed any of what you claim to be true.

Unfortunately we are known for having poor customer service based on some of the employees that use to work here about 1-2 years ago. In order to grow and better serve our clients we decided it was best for the business to have those people to pursue other opportunities.

I would like to personally apologize for any indiscretions that you have experienced with our company in the past. We have been in business for almost a decade; within those years of business we have found many different methods to refine our processes.

I cannot speak for our past employees but I can speak for my current teammates. We pride ourselves in honest customer service and are willing to tackle any obstacle that gets in the way of a positive experience with our clients and their interactions with us.

Since I have been here, before today we have always been complimented on our wonderful service and have never been accused of arrogant attitudes. If someone came across you as arrogant, my most sincere apologies.

You claim that our pricing is too expensive. Then I will let you name the terms. You come to me with the terms, if it is possible (rare chance it isn't) I will make it happen. As long as both parties are reasonable and fair, I do not see any reason as to why we cannot move forward together.

Please grant us the opportunity to make it right. If you would be so kind as to call our office at your earliest convenience at 213.745.6954 I will personally assist you in order to ensure that you receive the full Bulletproof Experience.

-Hunter

BPAuto

iTrader: (10)

On another note; I would like to explain more thoroughly why we disapprove of replicated products.

A big piece of why knock offs are frowned upon is because the companies who invested thousands of dollars in Research and Development for their products aren't getting rewarded. As people say, you have to spend money to make money. These companies in Japan are spending money on R&D in hopes of selling enough product in order to hopefully profit from it in the future. When other companies step in and copy the innovators' ideas, that JDM company now loses a lot of money because they aren't able to push as much volume as they initially intended. In hopes of countering an unfortunate replica, the JDM company will now spend more money on R&D for a new, better product hoping that it will attract more enthusiasts. It is possible that the same company will come along and take that design as well which results in the JDM company losing even more money. Many JDM companies have gone out of business because of this cycle, which is where a majority of the JDM supporters become sensitive. It is not so much the concept of replica parts that frustrates so many JDM enthusiasts, it is the end result that boils their blood. The companies that they love so much are punished for their innovative, unique designs instead of being rewarded.

One piece of information that I find ironic is this. Many people love JDM parts and are willing to spend the money but are not willing to wait. This leads to some of them purchasing replica products. If people supported the JDM company instead of the replica company, then these JDM companies will have more money and will be more confident that that their parts will sell. This could eventually lead to JDM companies creating stock instead of having items be made to order. This also means that JDM companies can lower their costs for products because they are more confident that they will sell more. This also means that JDM distributors around the world are more willing to take on stock for different products because of lower costs and a higher probability of selling. So if everyone supported and purchased the authentic JDM products, we will see lower costs, and more rapid lead times.

The point that Ben Schaffer was trying to get across in his post is one simple question: One company invested their personal money in Research and Development for a product that would not exist otherwise. So far this product is a huge hit and many people love it. Now, enthusiasts of the community that this company did the favor for, wants a replicated version; meaning that the company who paid for R&D is being punished rather than rewarded for their gift to the community.

Here is the simple question: Do you think it is fair for the company who paid for everything to be penalized via loss of funds with no hope of reimbursement? Further more, do you think it is fair for the company who paid for R&D to be penalized by members of the community that they were trying to help?

In the end, these are just some of our personal views. I believe that many people will agree with me when I say that right and wrong is a matter of perspective. My goal is to enlighten people to both perspectives and let them be the judge of what they think is right and wrong. I believe that by educating and consulting as many enthusiasts as possible we will have a better industry as a whole.

The feud about replicated products is one that will continue on for many years. For those of you that are waiting for the right opportunity to express your opinions; you will have your chance.

-Hunter

BenJ

iTrader: (21)

Have you not heard of the term market competition? Replication is part of it and if you don't plan for it in your business model then you are probably where you are at now, wondering where your market share is. I can understand your frustration/anger with companies "stealing" your design if infact they are yours, but it is part of doing business. And to say that "we" will suffer in the end is absolute B.S. If you don't make it then another company will arise to take your place and the process will start all over again.

BPAuto

iTrader: (10)

I agree with you. As they say, "It is just good business". I will be the first to admit that in terms of business, many replica companies have great business plans and marketing plans.

The reality is that we are on the phone with many of our JDM suppliers who are asking us to continue pushing their product so that they can stay in business. The reason so many are struggling is because they are not being rewarded for the money they invest in R&D for their products. This just hits home on a personal level for some of us which is why we take it to heart.

I personally believe that the blog post could have been written a little better. In the end, Ben Schaffer was a little heated so he became rather passionate about this entry, as some of you will see.

The feud between replicas consists of many different views; one of those views is people's personal views and what they believe is fair. Fair in terms of business, fair in terms of morals, fair in terms of survival.

Currently, my goal is not to have anyone/everyone to side with us and say "forget about knock offs". Currently I am not asking for support even though it would be appreciated. My plan is simply to have at least a few people to say "I understand where they are coming from". Even if you do not agree with our perspective, at least you understand it.

You claim that you understand which means that currently, I have achieved my goal so thank you

-Hunter

skyblas

i agreed knockoff is annoying
but because of knock off
company have no choice but to increase their selling price
because they are selling lesser
so they need to mark up their product further more
for ppl that support the original product
they are the one that suffer in the end
for me
i would get the real stuff, or i might as well dont get it