SBR "Baby Kahuna" - long read
Sep 13, 2006, 02:06 PM
#1
SBR "Baby Kahuna" - long read
Hello, just wanted to give you a write up on a newly available turbo kit I purchased from SBR recently. They’re calling this one the Baby Kahuna and it includes the Hafe cast manifold and 02 housing with a 'conventional' 360 degree thust washer (i.e. not ball-bearing, 60 trim .70ar (compressor side) T3 turbo. (I'd like to add more technical information about the kit here, but I really wasn't provided with much more to add)
The SBR Evo8 turbo kits are available for puchase on SBR's site here. Though the 'baby kahuna' kit is not listed. Just the GT30R and GT35R kits.
I should note that my car has a Buschur deluxe FMIC and a Koyo aluminum radiator which both caused some unique problems with my kit that may or may not be experienced by others. I knew going into this install that I was going to have to deviate from the provided equipment on the lower intercooler pipe. It turns out that I didn’t use their provided pipe or exotic 90 degree silicon coupler at all. Also, the Koyo radiator is known to be a bit thicker than stock which may have introduced additional clearance issues with the large 4” intake pipe that was included with the kit. Initially, I attempted to use the stock fan, but the only way was to trim a portion of the metal shroud which was hitting the compressor housing (this _might_ not be an issue for stock radiator users) and retain the use of my Buschur 3” intake pipe (the 4” intake pipe clearance would most likely still be a clearance issue for stock radiator users).
I won’t belabor the specifics of the install. I encountered things I liked and disliked about the kit which I have summarized below. Unfortunately, I’m unable to get pictures at the moment because I didn’t take them at the time of the install and I’m currently about 8000 miles from the vehicle right now as I am on a job assignment in the UK for the next 3 weeks.
Positives
1. Cast parts - I absolutely love the cast manifold and 02 housing. It’s the only way to fly on a street driven vehicle IMHO.
2. Oil lines – Nice construction and quality. Would prefer stainless braided, but push lock isn’t bad at all, and the filter on the feed side is very good insurance and something I would have purchased if it wasn’t included.
3. Couplers were multiply silicon and not terribly cut with a good deal of length left, no trouble there. This is obviously a small thing, but I’m running out of positives to mention.
4. T-bolt couplers were um….nice and appreciated. Okay, I’m through being overly nice.
Negatives - with comments and suggestions for SBR or other buyers to consider in italics
1. The included 4” cast aluminum intake pipe clearance with the stock fan shroud was a huge problem – kit should include a slim line fan (I had to purchase one separately for $70)
2. There was no support for the MAF and filter assembly other than the rigidity of the couplers attaching the intake pipe to the turbo and the MAF to the intake pipe – SBR could include a bracket for the MAF to the rail (I fashioned one myself out of a piece of scrap aluminum)
3. Clearance of the compressor housing on the bell housing and motor mount was extremely tight – Could include new clip mounts for the wiring loom, in addition to either a pre-notched motor mount or instructions on how to notch the mount even. (I have yet to resolve this satisfactorily)
4. Clearance of the lower intercooler pipe on the radiator was slim to none – This is possibly not an issue with provided ic pipe, but doubtful, as the scrap aluminum 90 degree bend I had was much less intrusive than the provided silicon 90 degree coupler.
5. I was forced to remove the heat shield on the power steering pump for the Tial wastegate to clear – A new heat shield could be provided, it would also be VERY NICE to include new heat shields for the manifold and turbine/02 housing.
6. Fitment of the wastegate dump tube on my internally dumped setup was a major problem. – I was forced to cut the wastegate dump tube in half and weld it back together once I had the wastegate positioned as close as possible. This was not easy, and not something that most enthusiasts would be able or willing to do on their own. SBR should preassemble the manifold, turbo, 02 housing, wastegate, and dump tube to check fitment before shipping.
7. The Tial wastegate housing flange on the manifold was warped ever so slightly requiring me to tap it with a deadblow hammer in order to get the wastegate to seat on the flange close enough to slip over the Tial v-band clamp. This still resulted in a slight exhaust leak. – This is a manufacturing process problem with putting too much heat to the Tial flange when welding to the manifold. Easy fix for SBR or Hafe.
8. Internal Manifold casting residue was present. I pried a fingernail sized chunk of casting flash out of the manifold merge collector, which was also full of unidentifiable sludge and buildup. – Cleanup of the manifold should occur when SBR preassembles the units.
9. Downpipe clearance with oil pan was VERY tight – At the very least, SBR could provide a heatsheild (such as an adhesive heat barrier) to keep heat from the oil if repositioning the downpipe by altering the 02 housing or manifold castings is not possible.
10. Intake pipe rough aluminum casting was rubbing on lower radiator hose – SBR could polish the large intake pipe and/or re-cast with indentions to allow for clearance on the radiator hose and stock fan.
11. Lack of solution to water line blockoff – SBR should include correct hardware, this is _not_ like a 2g dsm. I was provided with a banjo bolt, two crush washers, a 2g dsm style water line and a short length of hose. I ended up cutting one of the stock water hoses in half and plugging each end with a 10mm diameter bolt before inserting back on the feed lines.
12. No gasket for the flange between the turbine housing and 02 housing was provided. - When I called to inquire, I was told there is not supposed to be a gasket here. This sounds extremely fishy to me because there is a gasket between the manifold and the turbine housing which is also a cast-cast surface and the stock turbo has a gasket between the turbine housing exit and the 02 housing.
13. The kit was two bolts short of complete. – I had to supply my own bolts for the wastegate dump tube to the 02 housing. Not a very big deal at all, but worth mentioning.
14. This is obviously being overly picky, but it would be EXTREMELY nice to have included some heat resistant sleeve tubing for the oil feed and return lines, particularly since this is not a water cooled turbo.
I’m undecided on this kit right now as far as my ultimate recommendations. Though the fitment and problems I encountered made the experience a hassle, I still think it is likely very similar to the problems one might encounter with most other kits on the market. Difficult for me to say this 100% as I’ve never installed another kit, but from what my keen eye can distinguish after looking at several others in pictures and in person, I can tell there are definite improvements to be made on many other designs as well.
Overall, I still feel that the SBR provides an unparalleled starting point for a truly great kit with unique qualities such as the cast 02 housing and manifold that many others lack. It's just a pity that they took the kit to lets say 80% of where it should be and stopped there when the truly hard parts were done. For the price, I’m still confident I made a solid decision since I am willing to put up with a lot more initial hassle on the install and necessary accommodations for a truly great fitment than I believe most Evo owners will tolerate.
For those of you who may be concerned that I am overly critical of SBR's new kit, I'll let you know that I contacted them before making this post.
My car has a dyno appointment towards the end of the month at AMS, and following that day and my subsequent return to the US when I will be able to drive the car and experience it in full, I’ll save final judgment for then. Thanks all for the long read.
The SBR Evo8 turbo kits are available for puchase on SBR's site here. Though the 'baby kahuna' kit is not listed. Just the GT30R and GT35R kits.
I should note that my car has a Buschur deluxe FMIC and a Koyo aluminum radiator which both caused some unique problems with my kit that may or may not be experienced by others. I knew going into this install that I was going to have to deviate from the provided equipment on the lower intercooler pipe. It turns out that I didn’t use their provided pipe or exotic 90 degree silicon coupler at all. Also, the Koyo radiator is known to be a bit thicker than stock which may have introduced additional clearance issues with the large 4” intake pipe that was included with the kit. Initially, I attempted to use the stock fan, but the only way was to trim a portion of the metal shroud which was hitting the compressor housing (this _might_ not be an issue for stock radiator users) and retain the use of my Buschur 3” intake pipe (the 4” intake pipe clearance would most likely still be a clearance issue for stock radiator users).
I won’t belabor the specifics of the install. I encountered things I liked and disliked about the kit which I have summarized below. Unfortunately, I’m unable to get pictures at the moment because I didn’t take them at the time of the install and I’m currently about 8000 miles from the vehicle right now as I am on a job assignment in the UK for the next 3 weeks.
Positives
1. Cast parts - I absolutely love the cast manifold and 02 housing. It’s the only way to fly on a street driven vehicle IMHO.
2. Oil lines – Nice construction and quality. Would prefer stainless braided, but push lock isn’t bad at all, and the filter on the feed side is very good insurance and something I would have purchased if it wasn’t included.
3. Couplers were multiply silicon and not terribly cut with a good deal of length left, no trouble there. This is obviously a small thing, but I’m running out of positives to mention.
4. T-bolt couplers were um….nice and appreciated. Okay, I’m through being overly nice.
Negatives - with comments and suggestions for SBR or other buyers to consider in italics
1. The included 4” cast aluminum intake pipe clearance with the stock fan shroud was a huge problem – kit should include a slim line fan (I had to purchase one separately for $70)
2. There was no support for the MAF and filter assembly other than the rigidity of the couplers attaching the intake pipe to the turbo and the MAF to the intake pipe – SBR could include a bracket for the MAF to the rail (I fashioned one myself out of a piece of scrap aluminum)
3. Clearance of the compressor housing on the bell housing and motor mount was extremely tight – Could include new clip mounts for the wiring loom, in addition to either a pre-notched motor mount or instructions on how to notch the mount even. (I have yet to resolve this satisfactorily)
4. Clearance of the lower intercooler pipe on the radiator was slim to none – This is possibly not an issue with provided ic pipe, but doubtful, as the scrap aluminum 90 degree bend I had was much less intrusive than the provided silicon 90 degree coupler.
5. I was forced to remove the heat shield on the power steering pump for the Tial wastegate to clear – A new heat shield could be provided, it would also be VERY NICE to include new heat shields for the manifold and turbine/02 housing.
6. Fitment of the wastegate dump tube on my internally dumped setup was a major problem. – I was forced to cut the wastegate dump tube in half and weld it back together once I had the wastegate positioned as close as possible. This was not easy, and not something that most enthusiasts would be able or willing to do on their own. SBR should preassemble the manifold, turbo, 02 housing, wastegate, and dump tube to check fitment before shipping.
7. The Tial wastegate housing flange on the manifold was warped ever so slightly requiring me to tap it with a deadblow hammer in order to get the wastegate to seat on the flange close enough to slip over the Tial v-band clamp. This still resulted in a slight exhaust leak. – This is a manufacturing process problem with putting too much heat to the Tial flange when welding to the manifold. Easy fix for SBR or Hafe.
8. Internal Manifold casting residue was present. I pried a fingernail sized chunk of casting flash out of the manifold merge collector, which was also full of unidentifiable sludge and buildup. – Cleanup of the manifold should occur when SBR preassembles the units.
9. Downpipe clearance with oil pan was VERY tight – At the very least, SBR could provide a heatsheild (such as an adhesive heat barrier) to keep heat from the oil if repositioning the downpipe by altering the 02 housing or manifold castings is not possible.
10. Intake pipe rough aluminum casting was rubbing on lower radiator hose – SBR could polish the large intake pipe and/or re-cast with indentions to allow for clearance on the radiator hose and stock fan.
11. Lack of solution to water line blockoff – SBR should include correct hardware, this is _not_ like a 2g dsm. I was provided with a banjo bolt, two crush washers, a 2g dsm style water line and a short length of hose. I ended up cutting one of the stock water hoses in half and plugging each end with a 10mm diameter bolt before inserting back on the feed lines.
12. No gasket for the flange between the turbine housing and 02 housing was provided. - When I called to inquire, I was told there is not supposed to be a gasket here. This sounds extremely fishy to me because there is a gasket between the manifold and the turbine housing which is also a cast-cast surface and the stock turbo has a gasket between the turbine housing exit and the 02 housing.
13. The kit was two bolts short of complete. – I had to supply my own bolts for the wastegate dump tube to the 02 housing. Not a very big deal at all, but worth mentioning.
14. This is obviously being overly picky, but it would be EXTREMELY nice to have included some heat resistant sleeve tubing for the oil feed and return lines, particularly since this is not a water cooled turbo.
I’m undecided on this kit right now as far as my ultimate recommendations. Though the fitment and problems I encountered made the experience a hassle, I still think it is likely very similar to the problems one might encounter with most other kits on the market. Difficult for me to say this 100% as I’ve never installed another kit, but from what my keen eye can distinguish after looking at several others in pictures and in person, I can tell there are definite improvements to be made on many other designs as well.
Overall, I still feel that the SBR provides an unparalleled starting point for a truly great kit with unique qualities such as the cast 02 housing and manifold that many others lack. It's just a pity that they took the kit to lets say 80% of where it should be and stopped there when the truly hard parts were done. For the price, I’m still confident I made a solid decision since I am willing to put up with a lot more initial hassle on the install and necessary accommodations for a truly great fitment than I believe most Evo owners will tolerate.
For those of you who may be concerned that I am overly critical of SBR's new kit, I'll let you know that I contacted them before making this post.
My car has a dyno appointment towards the end of the month at AMS, and following that day and my subsequent return to the US when I will be able to drive the car and experience it in full, I’ll save final judgment for then. Thanks all for the long read.
Sep 13, 2006, 02:28 PM
#2
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It does seem like these problems with fitment are common with all aftermarket turbo kits. I have two other friends that had very similar problems with different companys kits.
OEM>aftermarket
OEM>aftermarket
Sep 15, 2006, 04:33 AM
#3
the point of the hafe mani is to use it with your stock heat shield... this isn't hks bling time... it's slip under cop's radar time.
you also have a very unconventional setup so i don't understand why you would expect the kit to accomodate all these things. it's a gt series turbo kit... you put a non gt series turbo on there with an internaly wasted setup... that requires professional installation... so happens that you can do that... so what's the complaint? otherwise it would have gone to a shop to have such things done.
if you're gonna customize a kit the kit manufacturer can only do so much. while it does seem much of it was lacking it think it also has a lot to do with your choice of equiptment.
maybe this is the reason that roadrace only installs these kits and doesn't sell them. too much stuff on the table that can be customized.
you also have a very unconventional setup so i don't understand why you would expect the kit to accomodate all these things. it's a gt series turbo kit... you put a non gt series turbo on there with an internaly wasted setup... that requires professional installation... so happens that you can do that... so what's the complaint? otherwise it would have gone to a shop to have such things done.
if you're gonna customize a kit the kit manufacturer can only do so much. while it does seem much of it was lacking it think it also has a lot to do with your choice of equiptment.
maybe this is the reason that roadrace only installs these kits and doesn't sell them. too much stuff on the table that can be customized.
Sep 16, 2006, 06:40 AM
#5
Originally Posted by trinydex
the point of the hafe mani is to use it with your stock heat shield... this isn't hks bling time... it's slip under cop's radar time.
you also have a very unconventional setup so i don't understand why you would expect the kit to accomodate all these things. it's a gt series turbo kit... you put a non gt series turbo on there with an internaly wasted setup... that requires professional installation... so happens that you can do that... so what's the complaint? otherwise it would have gone to a shop to have such things done.
if you're gonna customize a kit the kit manufacturer can only do so much. while it does seem much of it was lacking it think it also has a lot to do with your choice of equiptment.
maybe this is the reason that roadrace only installs these kits and doesn't sell them. too much stuff on the table that can be customized.
Guys, lets try to keep this thread full of good information and leave the idiotic comments out of it.
Sep 16, 2006, 06:50 AM
#7
Originally Posted by Ang Wen Yan
Care to tell us more info about "Baby Kahuna"?
Sure, this is the information I have. Here is the original post by SBR in the thread where the kit was made available for purchase. Unfortunately, this is all I have at the moment unless they want to respond and provide more information about the kit they are marketing.
Originally Posted by SlowboyMR
OK, everyone has pretty much seen our GT30r and 35r kits on here. We are now offering this kit with a non ball bearing option we are calling the "Baby Kahuna" It performs along the lines of the 30r from what we have seen on other turbo kits of ours. Making a few more whp, but also lagging about an extra 200rpms. But the price is alot less. Retail these kits will be $2999.00. For the first two testers we will be letting these go at $2500.00. Thats manifold, o2, tial44mm, dump tube or recirc, intake pipe, filter, lower intercooler pipe, oil lines etc. If you are local we would even help with the Dyno time. Please email me directly if you are interested or have any questions regarding this!!!! mas@slowboyracing.com or call in my ext is 12. These kits will just need to be adjusted for your specs, the turbos are on hand.
Thanks
Mark
SBR
Thanks
Mark
SBR
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Sep 16, 2006, 01:47 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by 144mph
Wrong. Show me how you are supposed to put the stock heat shield back on the Hafe manifold. It's simply not going to happen and you're completely wrong if you thought that was the intention of the manifold in the first place. You obviously have zero experience with this product (other than looking at pictures online perhaps) if you even thought for a second that using the stock heat shield was possible.
My setup is 'very unconventional' because I'm using a koyo radiator? There are a lot of evos out there with this radiator. Also, this is not an internal(l)y waste(gate)d setup, and while you're fixing your own spelling and terminology mistakes in the future, you might want to bother explaining why you think that it would be necessary to 'professionally' install the kit if it were. Whatever professionally installed even means. It's either installed or its not, and I've done work for shops, so I am a qualified installer.
If you were paying attention, you'd note that most of the problems are universal issues and not specific to my application. I also made the disctinction in my original post.
The only time I 'customized' this kit was when it was absolutely necessary in order to get it to fit as a result of a deficiency on the part of the kit itself.
Guys, lets try to keep this thread full of good information and leave the idiotic comments out of it.
My setup is 'very unconventional' because I'm using a koyo radiator? There are a lot of evos out there with this radiator. Also, this is not an internal(l)y waste(gate)d setup, and while you're fixing your own spelling and terminology mistakes in the future, you might want to bother explaining why you think that it would be necessary to 'professionally' install the kit if it were. Whatever professionally installed even means. It's either installed or its not, and I've done work for shops, so I am a qualified installer.
If you were paying attention, you'd note that most of the problems are universal issues and not specific to my application. I also made the disctinction in my original post.
The only time I 'customized' this kit was when it was absolutely necessary in order to get it to fit as a result of a deficiency on the part of the kit itself.
Guys, lets try to keep this thread full of good information and leave the idiotic comments out of it.
Sep 16, 2006, 02:45 PM
#13
and also it seems you were just cutting me out to slam you... that's simply not the case. you DO have an unconventional turbo setup it's not a gt turbo which is what this manifold was MADE FOR.
you mentioned blocking off the water cooled section, well how could they have the foresight to do that when the kit was made for gt turbos which are water cooled? if you got it installed there i'm sure they would have done it right but the fact is you didn't, you had to bring it to someone to install it right and in the end that was YOU.
i'm sure you could have gotten all the parts that were needed for an "unconventional" installation... but you're apparently not a FULL shop in and of yourself so you would have had to wait... but you didn't and you just made due.
your turbo seems to be put in a funny positions which then makes all the other piping not line up right. that's fine if you're willing to accept the fact that this kit wasn't made for your turbo specifically... all the kits i've seen installed IN PERSON have enough clearence to fit the MIGHTY pwr 4" thick radiator and retain ac with perfect dp fitment. maybe it's cuz roadrace does this stuff day and day out... iunno... but you're qualified so i think ti's just the choice of turbo...
as for cooling and heat rejection solutions... everyone wants to do things differently, some people get their radiator mouth moved over so it's a straight shot to the engine overflow opening. some people use insulation tube, some people fab a heat shiels, some use adhesive reflecting tape. it's up to you dude... they probably won't provide a solution that you might not want or like to use...
you mentioned blocking off the water cooled section, well how could they have the foresight to do that when the kit was made for gt turbos which are water cooled? if you got it installed there i'm sure they would have done it right but the fact is you didn't, you had to bring it to someone to install it right and in the end that was YOU.
i'm sure you could have gotten all the parts that were needed for an "unconventional" installation... but you're apparently not a FULL shop in and of yourself so you would have had to wait... but you didn't and you just made due.
your turbo seems to be put in a funny positions which then makes all the other piping not line up right. that's fine if you're willing to accept the fact that this kit wasn't made for your turbo specifically... all the kits i've seen installed IN PERSON have enough clearence to fit the MIGHTY pwr 4" thick radiator and retain ac with perfect dp fitment. maybe it's cuz roadrace does this stuff day and day out... iunno... but you're qualified so i think ti's just the choice of turbo...
as for cooling and heat rejection solutions... everyone wants to do things differently, some people get their radiator mouth moved over so it's a straight shot to the engine overflow opening. some people use insulation tube, some people fab a heat shiels, some use adhesive reflecting tape. it's up to you dude... they probably won't provide a solution that you might not want or like to use...
Last edited by trinydex; Sep 16, 2006 at 02:48 PM.
Sep 16, 2006, 05:17 PM
#14
I think you may be under the impression that I didn't purchase this entire kit from SBR and that I may have sourced the turbo on my own which isn't the case. The 'unconventional' turbo you keep referencing is the one SBR supplied. Therefore, they also knew that it wasn't going to be water cooled and shouldn't have supplied the water line fittings and instead provided an alternative to routing the coolant lines.
Also, that stock heat sheild was only used after they modified the Hafe manifold. Don't get me wrong, I definately like the look and was planning on doing something very similar to my kit in time, but that is most certainly not the way the manifold is provided (but it should have been). You can clearly see in the pics that the manifold does not have the bolt hole locations on the top or front that the stock manifold has. The guy in the pic also had to purchase an aftermarket radiator fan though I see he appears to be using a modified Koyo radiator.
Trinydex, you are not making much sense to me. Your replies are disconnected and your punctuation is horrendous. If you want people to take you seriously and comprehend your meaning then you need to compose complete sentences instead of run-on fragments.
Also, that stock heat sheild was only used after they modified the Hafe manifold. Don't get me wrong, I definately like the look and was planning on doing something very similar to my kit in time, but that is most certainly not the way the manifold is provided (but it should have been). You can clearly see in the pics that the manifold does not have the bolt hole locations on the top or front that the stock manifold has. The guy in the pic also had to purchase an aftermarket radiator fan though I see he appears to be using a modified Koyo radiator.
Trinydex, you are not making much sense to me. Your replies are disconnected and your punctuation is horrendous. If you want people to take you seriously and comprehend your meaning then you need to compose complete sentences instead of run-on fragments.
Sep 16, 2006, 07:35 PM
#15
I thought 144MPH made a fair review of his turbo kit install experience. There is more than one thread pointing out issues with this kit.
These guys seem to think that the SBR kit does not work well for 35R turbos:
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~richw426/sbrkit/sbr.htm
Another thread with a fitment issue:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=223688
Originally Posted by Spooldyou
Im getting a gt35r, So i'll be able to compare that install to this one. GL.
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~richw426/sbrkit/sbr.htm
Another thread with a fitment issue:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=223688