9sec9's, HTA86 powered EVO9 destroy's our dyno!
Oct 20, 2008, 05:46 AM
#181
The Panda IS sold. Again, the new owner tried to wire the money to me just before I went to Ohio. I just don't want to take the money until the car's delivered. Old school I guess, but I want him to be 100% satisfied with what he sees before I take the money. With a ton of expense in the last 2 months on the OKIX car, I may have to rethink that though. True R&D takes much more money than most people even come close to understanding. A single head failure can completely scrap the head, valves and springs. One of the failures took out a brand new intake cam. Each failure becomes a learning curve for the next setup. Forced Performance stepped up and overnighted a new cam to us. We probably caused the failure, but it was because of the 'twilight zone' of unknown dimensions that we are working in. Some people may laugh, but believe me, unknown is unknown. We shared our information with FP and it ultimately will help others. Sponsorship isn't just getting a product and running it. It requires empirically derived data feedback to the sponsor. We do our best. On our end, the expense of being on the road for 21 days, hotel room, meals, non-sponsored failures, track rentals, $25/gallon fuel, pulling a trailer for 2500 miles at 9.7 mi/gal and $4/gal. New parts to create new ideas and setups. It all adds up to a huge bill in a short time. Not to mention the blown rearends. We've relied heavily on Daniel Buschur and 100% of the time, he's been right there, even on the weekends. I just can't say enough about Buschur Racing and their 'Whatever it takes' attitude. They're the best I've ever used, PERIOD. I've used builders/tuners all over the US for various cars in the past. Lamborghini USA, EVOMotorsports in Phoenix, BARTuning in Houston, Special Vehicle Concepts in Los Angeles and several others. The best at what they do is Buschur Racing.
Oct 20, 2008, 08:29 AM
#182
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The Panda IS sold. Again, the new owner tried to wire the money to me just before I went to Ohio. I just don't want to take the money until the car's delivered. Old school I guess, but I want him to be 100% satisfied with what he sees before I take the money. With a ton of expense in the last 2 months on the OKIX car, I may have to rethink that though. True R&D takes much more money than most people even come close to understanding. A single head failure can completely scrap the head, valves and springs. One of the failures took out a brand new intake cam. Each failure becomes a learning curve for the next setup. Forced Performance stepped up and overnighted a new cam to us. We probably caused the failure, but it was because of the 'twilight zone' of unknown dimensions that we are working in. Some people may laugh, but believe me, unknown is unknown. We shared our information with FP and it ultimately will help others. Sponsorship isn't just getting a product and running it. It requires empirically derived data feedback to the sponsor. We do our best. On our end, the expense of being on the road for 21 days, hotel room, meals, non-sponsored failures, track rentals, $25/gallon fuel, pulling a trailer for 2500 miles at 9.7 mi/gal and $4/gal. New parts to create new ideas and setups. It all adds up to a huge bill in a short time. Not to mention the blown rearends. We've relied heavily on Daniel Buschur and 100% of the time, he's been right there, even on the weekends. I just can't say enough about Buschur Racing and their 'Whatever it takes' attitude. They're the best I've ever used, PERIOD. I've used builders/tuners all over the US for various cars in the past. Lamborghini USA, EVOMotorsports in Phoenix, BARTuning in Houston, Special Vehicle Concepts in Los Angeles and several others. The best at what they do is Buschur Racing.
A true racer finds the money and parts somehow to keep going, that is the nature of this hobby.
A really fast car eats parts very easily and rapidly. Often, I am waiting, until enough business comes in my door to find the money to rebuild and head back out to the track to try again.
Eat, Sleep, Race
Now that I have two machines - Street STI and Drag Evo - its double the trouble.
AL
Oct 20, 2008, 08:44 AM
#183
Robert, is that back and forth, or up and down. I get the two confused at times.
I've got to say, "You've built on hell of a turbo, or two."
The problem we have now, as you well know, is how to put the power to our advantage and it's best use. Scott and I talked the other day about 'detuning' it a bit and I think that very well may be the answer. By doing that, we can let it eat through the big end. Very nice job Robert.
I've got to say, "You've built on hell of a turbo, or two."The problem we have now, as you well know, is how to put the power to our advantage and it's best use. Scott and I talked the other day about 'detuning' it a bit and I think that very well may be the answer. By doing that, we can let it eat through the big end. Very nice job Robert.
Oct 20, 2008, 08:44 AM
#184
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The Panda IS sold. Again, the new owner tried to wire the money to me just before I went to Ohio. I just don't want to take the money until the car's delivered. Old school I guess, but I want him to be 100% satisfied with what he sees before I take the money. With a ton of expense in the last 2 months on the OKIX car, I may have to rethink that though. True R&D takes much more money than most people even come close to understanding. A single head failure can completely scrap the head, valves and springs. One of the failures took out a brand new intake cam. Each failure becomes a learning curve for the next setup. Forced Performance stepped up and overnighted a new cam to us. We probably caused the failure, but it was because of the 'twilight zone' of unknown dimensions that we are working in. Some people may laugh, but believe me, unknown is unknown. We shared our information with FP and it ultimately will help others. Sponsorship isn't just getting a product and running it. It requires empirically derived data feedback to the sponsor. We do our best. On our end, the expense of being on the road for 21 days, hotel room, meals, non-sponsored failures, track rentals, $25/gallon fuel, pulling a trailer for 2500 miles at 9.7 mi/gal and $4/gal. New parts to create new ideas and setups. It all adds up to a huge bill in a short time. Not to mention the blown rearends. We've relied heavily on Daniel Buschur and 100% of the time, he's been right there, even on the weekends. I just can't say enough about Buschur Racing and their 'Whatever it takes' attitude. They're the best I've ever used, PERIOD. I've used builders/tuners all over the US for various cars in the past. Lamborghini USA, EVOMotorsports in Phoenix, BARTuning in Houston, Special Vehicle Concepts in Los Angeles and several others. The best at what they do is Buschur Racing.
Oct 20, 2008, 08:51 AM
#185
Thanks for that Brian (sp?). It's been quite a ride for Tony and I. Without the Davids, Roberts, Indy's of the world, the ride wouldn't have been nearly as successful, nor as fun. Not too sure where we really go next, only time will tell. For now, we'll just keep on keepin' on.
Oct 20, 2008, 09:59 AM
#187
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So somebody had posted that the Fs635 turbo is now obsolite.. I never saw anyone respond to that..
I guess i'm wondering because I just purchased this turbo to try out on my car and If it's now *out dated* i'm starting to wonder why i am even taking the time to try it out..
And Al did you say that FP can change the wheel on a precision 37r to make it just like the hta88? Or was that in reference to a different type of turbo.. So many turbo names/ numbers being thrown around its hard to keep up with..
Mark
I guess i'm wondering because I just purchased this turbo to try out on my car and If it's now *out dated* i'm starting to wonder why i am even taking the time to try it out..
And Al did you say that FP can change the wheel on a precision 37r to make it just like the hta88? Or was that in reference to a different type of turbo.. So many turbo names/ numbers being thrown around its hard to keep up with..
Mark
Oct 20, 2008, 10:02 AM
#188
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turbos are like computers were a few years ago, by the time you get it home and installed it the next best thing has just come out and you're behind again...that's just part of it 
Oct 20, 2008, 10:03 AM
#189
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Thanks for that Brian (sp?). It's been quite a ride for Tony and I. Without the Davids, Roberts, Indy's of the world, the ride wouldn't have been nearly as successful, nor as fun. Not too sure where we really go next, only time will tell. For now, we'll just keep on keepin' on.
Buschur stage 3 head, 2.0L Buschur block, Fp5r cams?, Buschurs newest turbo kit with the Gt3586HTA turbo, Buschwacker trans- tcase...
Is that right?? Also i can't remember with everything that you guys had tested but didn't you have the fs635 turbo on your car at one point? Is that the turbo that went 9.2@157??
Sorry for all the questions..
Mark
Oct 20, 2008, 10:28 AM
#190
Mark, You got all of it right. The 9.20 run was on the FS635 while I was testing it. Without testing it on the dyno and track, we would never have known how the new GT3586HTA was going to stack up. As it is now, we have dynosheets on same dyno within days of testing each other. We have quasi-track results (1 full run on the FS635 and 1 shakedown run on the FP86) to compare. As the car sits right now it has:
Buschur Racing Built Stage 3 engine
Buschur Racing Ported Head
Buschur Racing Valve Sets (various sizes tested)
Buschur Racing Bushwacker Transmission Build (never has failed even once)
Wilson Manifolds V3 Intake Manifold (custom for high rpm)
Forced Performance GT3586HTA Turbo
Forced Performance FP-5R cams
Custom Downpipe turndown from Buschur's
Buschur Racing Water/Meth Kit (yes, I did it again)
Tilton Carbon/Carbon Clutch
Buschur Racing Custom FMIC (Engine-side Air Entry)
Shearer Off-the-shelf T3 Headers
Apexi N1 shocks
Swift Springs USA 080 springs (absolutely necessary)
PTE 1200 Injectors
Manual Boost Controller
Buschur Racing Custom Turbo Intake and Air Horn
Buschur Racing Custom LICP
C&R Dual Pass Radiator with Dry Breaks (wouldn't do without them now)
Buschur Racing 65mm TB
Stock Transfer Case
Stock Rear Diff
Wilwood Lightweight Brakes
15X7 CE28N Volks Wheels
26x9x15 Hoosier Slicks and QTP's
David Buschur Tune
Lightened car (considerably, but not cut at all. Still has ACD, AC inside, Heater
Buschur Racing Battery Kit
Impact Racing Fire Suit
DSS Driveshaft, Aluminum
Buschur Racing Lightweight Center Support
Buschur Racing Lightweight Moustache Bar
Buschur Racing Aluminum Rear Diff Sidemounts
can't think of anything else at the time.
Did I mention, a David Buschur TUNE?
Buschur Racing Built Stage 3 engine
Buschur Racing Ported Head
Buschur Racing Valve Sets (various sizes tested)
Buschur Racing Bushwacker Transmission Build (never has failed even once)
Wilson Manifolds V3 Intake Manifold (custom for high rpm)
Forced Performance GT3586HTA Turbo
Forced Performance FP-5R cams
Custom Downpipe turndown from Buschur's
Buschur Racing Water/Meth Kit (yes, I did it again)
Tilton Carbon/Carbon Clutch
Buschur Racing Custom FMIC (Engine-side Air Entry)
Shearer Off-the-shelf T3 Headers
Apexi N1 shocks
Swift Springs USA 080 springs (absolutely necessary)
PTE 1200 Injectors
Manual Boost Controller
Buschur Racing Custom Turbo Intake and Air Horn
Buschur Racing Custom LICP
C&R Dual Pass Radiator with Dry Breaks (wouldn't do without them now)
Buschur Racing 65mm TB
Stock Transfer Case
Stock Rear Diff
Wilwood Lightweight Brakes
15X7 CE28N Volks Wheels
26x9x15 Hoosier Slicks and QTP's
David Buschur Tune
Lightened car (considerably, but not cut at all. Still has ACD, AC inside, Heater
Buschur Racing Battery Kit
Impact Racing Fire Suit
DSS Driveshaft, Aluminum
Buschur Racing Lightweight Center Support
Buschur Racing Lightweight Moustache Bar
Buschur Racing Aluminum Rear Diff Sidemounts
can't think of anything else at the time.
Did I mention, a David Buschur TUNE?
Oct 20, 2008, 10:49 AM
#192
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The FS635 is not obsolite by any strech - its a very good turbo also.
There are several turbos now out there which are all very similar, but which may or may not be better for a particular customer's driving style and use.
A typical street car on stock bottom end and ecu will proabbly fare best with the HTA35 which is the fastest spooling of the group and which will make more than enough power in that application for example.
Those choosing a turbo should talk to their tuner or turbo shop and get recomednations on the best unit for their application.
The most powerful turbo is not the "best" turbo for every application.
Al
There are several turbos now out there which are all very similar, but which may or may not be better for a particular customer's driving style and use.
A typical street car on stock bottom end and ecu will proabbly fare best with the HTA35 which is the fastest spooling of the group and which will make more than enough power in that application for example.
Those choosing a turbo should talk to their tuner or turbo shop and get recomednations on the best unit for their application.
The most powerful turbo is not the "best" turbo for every application.
Al
Oct 20, 2008, 11:38 AM
#193
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Oct 20, 2008, 12:08 PM
#194
The FS635 is certainly not outdated. A stange thing happened. For years there was the Garrett GT35r and nothing else in that range. Robert from FP produced the HTA35r which pretty much set the EVO world on fire and we ran 9.42 at 155 mph in my car with it.
The loss of standard GT35r sales hurt other shops and that put a fire under them to produce a better turbo. PTE came out with an entire new line up. I tested one of the other turbos but the spool up wasn't close to the HTA35r. They came out with a few more and I got my hands on one that they thought could compete with the HTA35r from FP. Sure enough it was a winner. My car made another 35 whp over the HTA35r, it nearly the same spool up, the loss on low/mid range was small enough that I deemed it worthy to try to run on my RS. My RS was taken to the track and ran an amazing 9.11 at 155 mph on it. I was very happy with the results.
Well guess what happened? Robert from FP wasn't going to be out horsepowered. He worked around the clock on a new wheel to send us to try. This new turbo from FP wasn't even talked about until I switched over to the FS635 and had such good results. I am saying this so nobody thinks we sold the FS635's knowing that in a few weeks there was going to be something else, I had no idea and to be quite honest, didn't think the FS635 was going to be beat.
We got the new turbo in and I did some testing. Ends up we found another 25 whp in the new HTA86 over the FS635. Spool up was once again, just as good. I went back to the track and ran again, this time running a 9.04 at 159.64 mph.
It is amazing the advancements that have been made just in a few short weeks in the turbo world.
I don't feel the HTA82 (original), HTA86 or the FS635 are outdated. All of them have their merits and all of them are awesome to be honest. Each one is very close in the low/mid range. There is a price difference which will be a selling point for the FS635 as it is the lowest priced of the bunch.
Nothing is outdated. If you have any of those three turbos and your trap speeds aren't 150+ mph then you haven't even gotten to the limit of the lowest power producing one.
I think we can all look at the EVO racing world at this point in time and see that the solution to going faster isn't putting on the largest turbo option.
9sec9 managed to go faster on a red than some guys have even gone on MUCH larger turbos.
The loss of standard GT35r sales hurt other shops and that put a fire under them to produce a better turbo. PTE came out with an entire new line up. I tested one of the other turbos but the spool up wasn't close to the HTA35r. They came out with a few more and I got my hands on one that they thought could compete with the HTA35r from FP. Sure enough it was a winner. My car made another 35 whp over the HTA35r, it nearly the same spool up, the loss on low/mid range was small enough that I deemed it worthy to try to run on my RS. My RS was taken to the track and ran an amazing 9.11 at 155 mph on it. I was very happy with the results.
Well guess what happened? Robert from FP wasn't going to be out horsepowered. He worked around the clock on a new wheel to send us to try. This new turbo from FP wasn't even talked about until I switched over to the FS635 and had such good results. I am saying this so nobody thinks we sold the FS635's knowing that in a few weeks there was going to be something else, I had no idea and to be quite honest, didn't think the FS635 was going to be beat.
We got the new turbo in and I did some testing. Ends up we found another 25 whp in the new HTA86 over the FS635. Spool up was once again, just as good. I went back to the track and ran again, this time running a 9.04 at 159.64 mph.
It is amazing the advancements that have been made just in a few short weeks in the turbo world.
I don't feel the HTA82 (original), HTA86 or the FS635 are outdated. All of them have their merits and all of them are awesome to be honest. Each one is very close in the low/mid range. There is a price difference which will be a selling point for the FS635 as it is the lowest priced of the bunch.
Nothing is outdated. If you have any of those three turbos and your trap speeds aren't 150+ mph then you haven't even gotten to the limit of the lowest power producing one.
I think we can all look at the EVO racing world at this point in time and see that the solution to going faster isn't putting on the largest turbo option.
9sec9 managed to go faster on a red than some guys have even gone on MUCH larger turbos.
Last edited by David Buschur; Oct 20, 2008 at 12:44 PM.
Oct 20, 2008, 12:45 PM
#195
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Thank you for taking the time Dave and for clearing that up!!! I saw somebody post that a few pages ago and wanted to get some clearification because i was being asked why i was going to switch to a "smaller" turbo. While we both know it on paper looks like a smaller turbo it capable of much more and will be nicer to drive on the street..
Mark
Mark
sasd209, thanks for cleaning up the thread. Much appreciated it.
The FS635 is certainly not outdated. A stange thing happened. For years there was the Garrett GT35r and nothing else in that range. Robert from FP produced the HTA35r which pretty much set the EVO world on fire and we ran 9.42 at 155 mph in my car with it.
The loss of standard GT35r sales hurt other shops and that put a fire under them to produce a better turbo. PTE came out with an entire new line up. I tested one of the other turbos but the spool up wasn't close to the HTA35r. They came out with a few more and I got my hands on one that they thought could compete with the HTA35r from FP. Sure enough it was a winner. My car made another 35 whp over the HTA35r, it nearly the same spool up, the loss on low/mid range was small enough that I deemed it worthy to try to run on my RS. My RS was taken to the track and ran an amazing 9.11 at 155 mph on it. I was very happy with the results.
Well guess what happened? Robert from FP wasn't going to be out horsepowered. He worked around the clock on a new wheel to send us to try. This new turbo from FP wasn't even talked about until I switched over to the FS635 and had such good results. I am saying this so nobody thinks we sold the FS635's knowing that in a few weeks there was going to be something else, I had no idea and to be quite honest, didn't think the FS635 was going to be beat.
We got the new turbo in and I did some testing. Ends up we found another 25 whp in the new HTA86 over the FS635. Spool up was once again, just as good. I went back to the track and ran again, this time running a 9.04 at 159.64 mph.
It is amazing the advancements that have been made just in a few short weeks in the turbo world.
I don't feel the HTA82 (original), HTA86 or the FS635 are outdated. All of them have their merits and all of them are awesome to be honest. Each one is very close in the low/mid range. There is a price difference which will be a selling point for the FS635 as it is the lowest priced of the bunch.
Nothing is outdated. If you have any of those three turbos and your trap speeds aren't 150+ mph then you haven't even gotten to the limit of the lowest power producing one.
I think we can all look at the EVO racing world at this point in time and see that the solution to going faster isn't putting on the largest turbo option.
9sec9 managed to go faster on a red than some guys have even gone on MUCH larger turbos.
The FS635 is certainly not outdated. A stange thing happened. For years there was the Garrett GT35r and nothing else in that range. Robert from FP produced the HTA35r which pretty much set the EVO world on fire and we ran 9.42 at 155 mph in my car with it.
The loss of standard GT35r sales hurt other shops and that put a fire under them to produce a better turbo. PTE came out with an entire new line up. I tested one of the other turbos but the spool up wasn't close to the HTA35r. They came out with a few more and I got my hands on one that they thought could compete with the HTA35r from FP. Sure enough it was a winner. My car made another 35 whp over the HTA35r, it nearly the same spool up, the loss on low/mid range was small enough that I deemed it worthy to try to run on my RS. My RS was taken to the track and ran an amazing 9.11 at 155 mph on it. I was very happy with the results.
Well guess what happened? Robert from FP wasn't going to be out horsepowered. He worked around the clock on a new wheel to send us to try. This new turbo from FP wasn't even talked about until I switched over to the FS635 and had such good results. I am saying this so nobody thinks we sold the FS635's knowing that in a few weeks there was going to be something else, I had no idea and to be quite honest, didn't think the FS635 was going to be beat.
We got the new turbo in and I did some testing. Ends up we found another 25 whp in the new HTA86 over the FS635. Spool up was once again, just as good. I went back to the track and ran again, this time running a 9.04 at 159.64 mph.
It is amazing the advancements that have been made just in a few short weeks in the turbo world.
I don't feel the HTA82 (original), HTA86 or the FS635 are outdated. All of them have their merits and all of them are awesome to be honest. Each one is very close in the low/mid range. There is a price difference which will be a selling point for the FS635 as it is the lowest priced of the bunch.
Nothing is outdated. If you have any of those three turbos and your trap speeds aren't 150+ mph then you haven't even gotten to the limit of the lowest power producing one.
I think we can all look at the EVO racing world at this point in time and see that the solution to going faster isn't putting on the largest turbo option.
9sec9 managed to go faster on a red than some guys have even gone on MUCH larger turbos.
Last edited by EpicEVO; Oct 20, 2008 at 12:52 PM.