Spec P-Trim Twin Disc clutch initial impressions
Oct 6, 2009, 07:08 AM
#46
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I had a shop install the clutch...an evo specific shop..Mojomotorsports to be exact. I can't say what he did or didn't do, but he hasn't had a problem installing clutches before and didn't have one on my car, but I wasn't there and didn't watch him...so all I can go on is his word.
If this problem "appears" more and more, it would lead me to believe that is the part and not the installer....
If this problem "appears" more and more, it would lead me to believe that is the part and not the installer....
Last edited by E85evo8; Oct 6, 2009 at 07:10 AM.
Oct 6, 2009, 07:15 AM
#47
Zeus, I couldn't agree more with you on this one.
I have seen many threads now, talking about adjustment rods on almost the last thread. When I installed the clutch, I did it during a motor swap, so basically the tranny was not shoved on at an angle, but parallel to the crank within the same plane.
Now my adjustment is almost 5 threads left, Which I think is pretty to close to what stock is.
So far I have about 300 miles on the clutch and it feels fantastic. I hope I don't run into problems like others have mentioned , once the car is broken in.
I have seen many threads now, talking about adjustment rods on almost the last thread. When I installed the clutch, I did it during a motor swap, so basically the tranny was not shoved on at an angle, but parallel to the crank within the same plane.
Now my adjustment is almost 5 threads left, Which I think is pretty to close to what stock is.
So far I have about 300 miles on the clutch and it feels fantastic. I hope I don't run into problems like others have mentioned , once the car is broken in.
Oct 6, 2009, 07:23 AM
#48
I have issues with this clutch. When im at a stop and i put it in gear the car will actually move forward. I adjusted the pedal already with no improvement. Im started to get a whining noise. Also, when you downshift its a horrible scratching noise(might be from the six puck). My shifting is so notchy its not even enjoyable to drive anymore I think it has even caused permanent damage to my transmission.
we see this quite a bit on cars that arent bled right...
flush the fluid out, and start with fresh fluid...
we dont bleed clutch systems like we do brake systems...
crack the bleeder, then press the pedal down, close and repeat, you may find you have to pull the pedal up by hand....
cb
Oct 6, 2009, 09:05 AM
#49
Oops... that can be an issue too. Many times I've seen a disc swap with a gentle install completely solve the problem on both single AND twin disc systems.
HOWEVER, I shot my mouth off (still based in clutch experience) forgetting that these systems use a hydraulic TOB that replaces the OE slave cylinder. Many people unknowingly don't bleed brakes right. I could see this being even less forgiving.
For the record I do NOT have personal experience with this type TOB.
If you can't fix the problem with repeated bleeding of the system, I would then suggest the possibility of a warped disc.
HOWEVER, I shot my mouth off (still based in clutch experience) forgetting that these systems use a hydraulic TOB that replaces the OE slave cylinder. Many people unknowingly don't bleed brakes right. I could see this being even less forgiving.
For the record I do NOT have personal experience with this type TOB.
If you can't fix the problem with repeated bleeding of the system, I would then suggest the possibility of a warped disc.
Oct 6, 2009, 09:57 AM
#50
Sorry guys if i'm a bit OT but thought i'd post in here fwiw as we actually have a customer that runs Specs (Mini-Twin) which is very similar to the QM clutch as it is 2 un-spung hubs that are def smaller that the other Spec clutches being discussed in here.
It's been my observation as this customer has also tried out a diff manufactured twin disc clutch that was said to hold good tq while still allowing hi-rpm shifts.
Well after testing it out it FAILED! MISERABLY.
I attribute it once again to the sheer size(diam) and weight of the twin set-up which i can possibly see may occur w/ some of the other larger twin disc Spec clutches as i have seen that they too are larger in size and i'm sure weigh a significant amount more due to 1 disc having the springs in it.
Not sure if it's adjustment issues for you guys as i'm not 100% sure if the other Specs run a hydraulic tob or not just food for thought for those in this thread.
The other clutch that our customer tried also ran some sort of hybrid clutch disc materials i believe similar to some of the Specs discussed here as well.
Hope you all solve your issues i know too well what a nightmare it is to chase down clutch problems!
It's been my observation as this customer has also tried out a diff manufactured twin disc clutch that was said to hold good tq while still allowing hi-rpm shifts.
Well after testing it out it FAILED! MISERABLY.
I attribute it once again to the sheer size(diam) and weight of the twin set-up which i can possibly see may occur w/ some of the other larger twin disc Spec clutches as i have seen that they too are larger in size and i'm sure weigh a significant amount more due to 1 disc having the springs in it.
Not sure if it's adjustment issues for you guys as i'm not 100% sure if the other Specs run a hydraulic tob or not just food for thought for those in this thread.
The other clutch that our customer tried also ran some sort of hybrid clutch disc materials i believe similar to some of the Specs discussed here as well.
Hope you all solve your issues i know too well what a nightmare it is to chase down clutch problems!
Oct 10, 2009, 10:47 PM
#51
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I'm not happy at all with this clutch as it is now slipping upon full boost/spool up about 300-400rpms before it finally grips and holds to redline. I'm going to be calling Spec on monday and see what they can do. I've had nothing but problems with this clutch from the beginning and want this to get figured out. I'm willing to buy a brand new setup from them and send this one back to them to get looked at. I have brand new clutch fluid, was bled properly a few times and SS upper clutch line. I'm going to replace everything and start from scratch if I have to...
Problems....
1. Shifting at 8500rpms is nothing but slow and difficult to get into the next gear ( just doesn't like to go into gear under high rpm and/or load)
2. Slipping upon full boost
3. Sometimes get locked out of gears when either upshifting or downshifting.
4. Get a "whine" now when acclerating from a stop which is clearly from the clutch plates, pressure plate or floater plates finally contacting each other when disengaging the clutch.
Problems....
1. Shifting at 8500rpms is nothing but slow and difficult to get into the next gear ( just doesn't like to go into gear under high rpm and/or load)
2. Slipping upon full boost
3. Sometimes get locked out of gears when either upshifting or downshifting.
4. Get a "whine" now when acclerating from a stop which is clearly from the clutch plates, pressure plate or floater plates finally contacting each other when disengaging the clutch.
Last edited by E85evo8; Oct 10, 2009 at 10:52 PM.
Oct 10, 2009, 11:06 PM
#52
2) Pedal effort. I cannot tell any difference at all between this and the oem setup. I was expecting a little bit more, but this was a very pleasant surprise. The guys at Spec mentioned that I might have to step up to a larger master cylinder, but I don't believe this will be needed once the clutch wears in.
4) Noise. That infamous multi-plate chatter. I think inside the workshop with all the windows rolled down and the stereo off I heard a faint rattle with the pedal to the floor. Supposedly some of the early versions of this setup made a bit more noise, it seems they've sorted that out (or maybe I just got a magic one, who knows
) but its quieter than the worn out throwout bearing from my oem setup. We have a high profile 590whp FP Red Evo 9 car here with the same problems as E85Evo8 above.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ml#post7599304
Last edited by TTP Engineering; Oct 10, 2009 at 11:13 PM.
Oct 11, 2009, 12:07 AM
#53
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Can anyone testify that any Twin disc does not have inherent issues. With the twin discs rotating to each other, Chatter issues arise. Yes the Hydro TOB has to be used as well as proper install and adjustment. The Mini-twin is not a Drag Racing...dump the pedal type clutch. Spec makes the P-trim for that application. It holds/rated @ 1100ft/lbs; I run it on my MR9 and was the prototype for the 6 speed push-type clutch. I know the Spec P-trim is a Cera-Metallic material, with 1 sprung and 1 unsprung disc. And yes the clutch will clamp-down as tight as anything out there, but again, it is a twin disc. Chatter, grabbyness, is all apart of running a twin disc. I know others have way more experience as me in this area, but all one has to do is to browse the many many threads with so many people complaining about most if not all of the combined twin disc clutches on the market. It is the nature of a twin disc. I speak of experience with the P Trim. But know the Mini Twin is a much smaller diameter clutch disc.
-E85evo8- your problems could be any number of issues. I suggest as you have mentioned to give them "SPEC" a call Monday they are good people and will work with you to help diagnosis the problem. I feel you as I know what you are going through, but with every problem there is a solution. Let us know what you come up with....
-E85evo8- your problems could be any number of issues. I suggest as you have mentioned to give them "SPEC" a call Monday they are good people and will work with you to help diagnosis the problem. I feel you as I know what you are going through, but with every problem there is a solution. Let us know what you come up with....
Last edited by Q@EvoPowerMods; Oct 12, 2009 at 08:09 PM.
Oct 11, 2009, 08:54 AM
#56
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I'm not talking about the "normal" noises and issues that come with a twin disc. I bought this setup as it is supposed to be more DD and street friendly compared to the smaller 7.25" "mini" twin disc clutch setups such as teh QM and Powertrain Tech, or even the Spec "mini". If I have to buy a larger Master Cynlinder then I just may, but I don't think I would go with another "SS trim". I would go with the next step up which is the "P trim" and has twin 6 puck discs instead of the hybrid discs that I have and that come with the SS trim
Oct 12, 2009, 01:19 PM
#57
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my spec twin is being taken out this friday and sending it back to spec to have them look at the clutch and they will let me know if there is anything wrong with the unit. I will keep this thread updated as well
Oct 12, 2009, 07:58 PM
#58
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Where do you think the chatter comes from? Twin discs are just that 2discs; and Not just 1 disc, with spacers etc. That is what I was talking about the chatter issues inherent in twin discs. Opposing rates is when the clutch discs spacer plates finally engage with one-another.
I don't see how this helps the OP...
from my experience with the same clutch(but P-trim) it sounds as if the discs are not shimmed/aligned to one another correctly. My first P trim had the same issue as it wore very quickly. My MR was the first 6 speed to run this clutch...I do have a little experience with it....Upon inspection one disc wore faster/quicker than the other disc.
Good to hear that Spec is willing to work with you on it. Let us know what the verdict is....
Last edited by Q@EvoPowerMods; Oct 12, 2009 at 08:32 PM.
Oct 12, 2009, 08:38 PM
#59
Where do you think the chatter comes from? Twin discs are just that 2discs; and Not just 1 disc, with spacers etc. That is what I was talking about the chatter issues inherent in twin discs. Opposing rates is when the clutch discs spacer plates finally engage with one-another.
I don't see how this helps the OP...
I don't see how this helps the OP...
THE DISCS DO NOT SPIN AT DIFFERENT SPEEDS!
I am not sure why this is such a difficult concept to comprehend.
Oct 13, 2009, 08:38 AM
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I never did say they spin at different speeds, stop putting comments into my posts that aren't there....no your comments do not help anything. I do know the Spec clutch was the prototype for the ^ speed model...I was commenting on the chatter. We are not talking about the stock floor mat world record here, leave me alone so that the OP can figure out his problems.
Apparently you get off on being negative and not actually helping in anyway. You have a bad enough rep over the www without constantly adding to it all the time. Video says it all
Regardless; hope "E85evo8" finds out a solution, I want to hear what the verdict is.
Apparently you get off on being negative and not actually helping in anyway. You have a bad enough rep over the www without constantly adding to it all the time. Video says it all
Regardless; hope "E85evo8" finds out a solution, I want to hear what the verdict is.