AMSOIL DOT4 Brake Fluid - Track Review!
Sep 11, 2010, 06:42 PM
#91
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we offer this much info on the fluid http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/bf4.aspx
Motul offer this little much on their fluid http://www.motul.fr/uk/produits/index.html
i am still wondering why many real time attack racers are claiming the same results with motul,,, uhm do we have a pattern occuring here,, yep,,, and i am sorry we cant give out any more propietary data like fluids formula ,,,, i did not know of any company that would give up the secret unless they are stupid enoug.
Nathan lets continue with our 2 year old spotless thread.
Motul offer this little much on their fluid http://www.motul.fr/uk/produits/index.html
i am still wondering why many real time attack racers are claiming the same results with motul,,, uhm do we have a pattern occuring here,, yep,,, and i am sorry we cant give out any more propietary data like fluids formula ,,,, i did not know of any company that would give up the secret unless they are stupid enoug.
Nathan lets continue with our 2 year old spotless thread.
EXTREME THERMAL RESISTANCE AND STABILITY: the elevated boiling point of RBF 600 FACTORY LINE (312°c / 593°F)
VERY EFFICIENT WHEN RAINY: the very high wet boiling point (216°c / 420°F)
VERY EFFICIENT WHEN RAINY: the very high wet boiling point (216°c / 420°F)
I see nothing saying we should switch. I've had success with RBF600... But why would I switch to a brake fluid with a LOWER boiling point if that's the only selling point?
Just doesn't make sense.
Last edited by Rokkit; Sep 11, 2010 at 06:45 PM.
Sep 12, 2010, 09:53 AM
#92
Uh, Motul has the exact same specifications Amsoil does on their website... Boiling points.
Your argument is still not valid - What I and others are asking is "Why would we switch"
I see nothing saying we should switch. I've had success with RBF600... But why would I switch to a brake fluid with a LOWER boiling point if that's the only selling point?
Just doesn't make sense.
Your argument is still not valid - What I and others are asking is "Why would we switch"
I see nothing saying we should switch. I've had success with RBF600... But why would I switch to a brake fluid with a LOWER boiling point if that's the only selling point?
Just doesn't make sense.
Dude iam not wanting you to switch,,, the darn thread is designed to show the progress of boom29 and his 2 plus years journey of racing , and it happend that he was using one fluid and fluid A worked better than fluid M regardless of the claims.
so please move on and do not derail this thread .
thanks
Andy
Sep 12, 2010, 09:56 AM
#93
Yep the individual advertised #'s from Motul to AMSOIL DOT4 are really close. However, I have not been the only one to say that running Motul I had to constantly bleed the brakes. Perhaps it takes on more moisture or breaks down quicker - I dunno.
But with AMSOIL DOT4; I can go several weekends w/o the need to bleed. Sooo much less maintenance!
But with AMSOIL DOT4; I can go several weekends w/o the need to bleed. Sooo much less maintenance!
Sep 13, 2010, 07:56 AM
#94
This weekend I debuted a new front rotor and pad setup. Sorta mixed results. I didn't have any brake issues, but after 2 years of running the same pad it was a bit difficult to re-learn a new pad that heats up at a different rate.
I'll have a full writeup in a few days.
Sep 13, 2010, 08:18 AM
#95
we offer this much info on the fluid http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/bf4.aspx
Motul offer this little much on their fluid http://www.motul.fr/uk/produits/index.html
i am still wondering why many real time attack racers are claiming the same results with motul,,, uhm do we have a pattern occuring here,, yep,,, and i am sorry we cant give out any more propietary data like fluids formula ,,,, i did not know of any company that would give up the secret unless they are stupid enoug.
Nathan lets continue with our 2 year old spotless thread.
ok
Motul offer this little much on their fluid http://www.motul.fr/uk/produits/index.html
i am still wondering why many real time attack racers are claiming the same results with motul,,, uhm do we have a pattern occuring here,, yep,,, and i am sorry we cant give out any more propietary data like fluids formula ,,,, i did not know of any company that would give up the secret unless they are stupid enoug.
Nathan lets continue with our 2 year old spotless thread.
ok
Everyone in the modern industry does this. With the evolution of analytical instrumentation I could take a sample of any compound you want and figure out its components, physical limits and all of the methods practically. Its called competition. Your competitors need to know what you are doing so they can design something to be better, etc. I work for an oil/gas company, and in the analytical lab nonetheless. One of my major jobs is the quality analysis testing of compounds/resins but we also take competitors samples and test them to see what new compounds they are using. Take for instance the oil analysis samples you are talking about sometimes; they break things down, we know zinc is a good additive and yours is high. That proves something to me, that you know what is in the product and know what it is superior.
People know what you are using. Its no secret. There is no magic behind why yours is better, and these 'exotic' compounds how do they make your fluid better? I have to agree with the past few posters when I say you should post up why it is better. Why should I buy your brand over Motul, etc? Give me reasons. Track experience is one thing, but as others said technique could be flawed thus skewing the results. You could give the best fluid to an amateur driver and he could cook it no problem. I want (and others want) a specific reason why yours is better, and if you can prove it, I will buy your product. As for these claims of 'exotic' materials and the minimal tests you posted on the website, that wont suffice. What compounds are different and what make it better, specifically?
I am not making this as an attack on Amsoil, your products are top notch. I just wanted to see some hard evidence and explain why these people are posting these comments.
Edit: I saw the above poster and you said you don't want him to switch? You don't want others to switch to using your product? I am sorry that we are questioning your product, but when a thread is titled: AMSOIL DOT4 Brake Fluid - Track Review!, don't you think people are going to question the results?
Last edited by buchnerj; Sep 13, 2010 at 08:22 AM.
Sep 13, 2010, 05:32 PM
#96
I am not making this as an attack on Amsoil, your products are top notch. I just wanted to see some hard evidence and explain why these people are posting these comments.
Edit: I saw the above poster and you said you don't want him to switch? You don't want others to switch to using your product? I am sorry that we are questioning your product, but when a thread is titled: AMSOIL DOT4 Brake Fluid - Track Review!, don't you think people are going to question the results?
Edit: I saw the above poster and you said you don't want him to switch? You don't want others to switch to using your product? I am sorry that we are questioning your product, but when a thread is titled: AMSOIL DOT4 Brake Fluid - Track Review!, don't you think people are going to question the results?
And the data we supplied is what it is, Motul does have about 13 degrees higher on the ERBP, is this significant i dont know, AMSOIL DOT 4 is a non compresible fluid meaning that at the track you pedal will not feel as spungy as with other fluids, not sure how motul stack to this claim.
hey motul might be a slight better fluid,,, but i tell you what it aint working for many they keep comming to AMSOIL for some DOT 4.
Sep 13, 2010, 05:33 PM
#97
Right on.
This weekend I debuted a new front rotor and pad setup. Sorta mixed results. I didn't have any brake issues, but after 2 years of running the same pad it was a bit difficult to re-learn a new pad that heats up at a different rate.
I'll have a full writeup in a few days.
This weekend I debuted a new front rotor and pad setup. Sorta mixed results. I didn't have any brake issues, but after 2 years of running the same pad it was a bit difficult to re-learn a new pad that heats up at a different rate.
I'll have a full writeup in a few days.
Sep 13, 2010, 05:56 PM
#98
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And the data we supplied is what it is, Motul does have about 13 degrees higher on the ERBP, is this significant i dont know, AMSOIL DOT 4 is a non compresible fluid meaning that at the track you pedal will not feel as spungy as with other fluids, not sure how motul stack to this claim.
As far as AMSOIL vs: Others. AMSOIL posts the true data about their fluids. AMSOIL Brake Fluid is not manufactured by AMSOIL, that happens to be one of few products that is purchased from an outside source.
The real problem is when other companies, who buy the Exact same Brake Fluid, sell it for a higher price and post specifications that are greater.
"It is printed on the label so it must be so !"
Too bad there is no regulatory body for all fluids.
How, can it be the same product, just in a different bottle, and have a different Spec.
This is a problem that is industry wide for all fluids and AMSOIL has been fighting this Since day 1.
LG
Sep 15, 2010, 08:25 AM
#99
looking foward to some more work and a 3rd season with this team. 
I've been tracking my car for about 3.5 years now. I've got about 35 or so events under my belt. I've went through 3 sets of rotors, 5 sets of front pads, countless nights of brake bleeds, multiple brake fluid flushes, etc. I've had weekends with a solid pedal, a spongy pedal, I've cut session short because of hot fluid and even went off track because of boiled fluid and a total and complete loss of brakes.
I'll detail out the changes I've made over the years, what has worked, what hasn't and where I'm at now. Probably way more detail than is needed, but hopefully it will come in handy for someone.
Bottom line; just switched to AMSOIL DOT4 fluid and loving it!
2006
2007
2008
2009
Mid-year I had a few offs because of boiled fluid. I think this was partially due to lack of airflow in the routing of my forge cooling ducts. But I really think the Motul should have handled it. One of these was a very scary departure where I left the track at 94mph (via traqmate) and was just fortunate there was enough runoff to slide to a stop.
I switched the car to AMSOIL engine oil. See thread HERE for more info. I also learned they had a DOT4 brake fluid that was similar to Motul. Since I had some issues already with losing my brakes and/or a soft pedal and the constant need to bleed, I figured I'd give it a shot as the specs were very similar. So I called up our local forum expert - Andy (apagan01) on the forums - and placed an order.
My first event with the AMSOIL DOT4 fluid was last weekend at BlackHawk Farms Raceway in Northern IL - nearly Wisconsin. Blackhawk is known as a brutal track on the brakes so it was going to be a great test. It was also forecasted to be around 95+ with a heat index of 105+.
Not once the entire weekend did I have an issue with the pedal. I ran full 15-20min sessions (4-5 per day) and I ran them hard. I would have usually had a slightly soft pedal and would have spent Sat evening bleeding the brakes - but I didn't bother. Instead just had a
and relaxed.
Stay tuned for a detailed review on the install/flush process and my first track weekend.
I've been tracking my car for about 3.5 years now. I've got about 35 or so events under my belt. I've went through 3 sets of rotors, 5 sets of front pads, countless nights of brake bleeds, multiple brake fluid flushes, etc. I've had weekends with a solid pedal, a spongy pedal, I've cut session short because of hot fluid and even went off track because of boiled fluid and a total and complete loss of brakes.
I'll detail out the changes I've made over the years, what has worked, what hasn't and where I'm at now. Probably way more detail than is needed, but hopefully it will come in handy for someone.
Bottom line; just switched to AMSOIL DOT4 fluid and loving it!
2006
- Stock fluid
- Stock pads
- Stock rotors
2007
- Motul fluid
- PF Z / PFC01 front pads
- 255 RA1's
2008
- Motul fluid
- Hawk DTC60 pads
- Goodridge SS lines
- SP Performance front slotted rotors (rear stock)
- Front Ti backing shims
- Forge Air Cooling Ducts
- 255 NT01's
2009
- Motul fluid - (through July/2009)
- AMSOIL DOT4 fluid - (as of Aug/2009)
- Hawk DTC60 pads
- Goodridge SS lines
- 'Blank' replacement front rotors (rear stock)
- Front Ti backing shims
- Forge Air Cooling Ducts
- 245 Hoosier R6
Mid-year I had a few offs because of boiled fluid. I think this was partially due to lack of airflow in the routing of my forge cooling ducts. But I really think the Motul should have handled it. One of these was a very scary departure where I left the track at 94mph (via traqmate) and was just fortunate there was enough runoff to slide to a stop.
I switched the car to AMSOIL engine oil. See thread HERE for more info. I also learned they had a DOT4 brake fluid that was similar to Motul. Since I had some issues already with losing my brakes and/or a soft pedal and the constant need to bleed, I figured I'd give it a shot as the specs were very similar. So I called up our local forum expert - Andy (apagan01) on the forums - and placed an order.
My first event with the AMSOIL DOT4 fluid was last weekend at BlackHawk Farms Raceway in Northern IL - nearly Wisconsin. Blackhawk is known as a brutal track on the brakes so it was going to be a great test. It was also forecasted to be around 95+ with a heat index of 105+.
Not once the entire weekend did I have an issue with the pedal. I ran full 15-20min sessions (4-5 per day) and I ran them hard. I would have usually had a slightly soft pedal and would have spent Sat evening bleeding the brakes - but I didn't bother. Instead just had a
and relaxed.Stay tuned for a detailed review on the install/flush process and my first track weekend.
Sep 15, 2010, 01:44 PM
#100
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personally my logic is that even if the fluids are identical when new, the water retention (my old lady has this problem, as does motul) characteristics are enough of a reason to switch.
Not sure why you need more "proof" than this, especially if your a chemist that can break down and study the material components.
Its going to be cheaper to run the motul due to longer duty cycles.
And I live in WA where it rains alot.... Lots of water about to foul the fluid.
The real question i'm getting is "I feel comfortable with a brand (who doesnt produce their own fluids) and need a sound argument to switch". Or boiled down: "Brand loyalty".....
So you own a mitsubishi because they have a long proud history of producing solid cars acrost the range? (the answer to that question kids, is a resounding NO!) Which points towards limited brand loyalty on your part.
Personally i'll try to own the best of what i can afford regardless of brand. Amsoil has the better properties in terms of water, and the temps are materially the same (yes I brought in materiality). end-o-story for me.
Not sure why you need more "proof" than this, especially if your a chemist that can break down and study the material components.
Its going to be cheaper to run the motul due to longer duty cycles.
And I live in WA where it rains alot.... Lots of water about to foul the fluid.
The real question i'm getting is "I feel comfortable with a brand (who doesnt produce their own fluids) and need a sound argument to switch". Or boiled down: "Brand loyalty".....
So you own a mitsubishi because they have a long proud history of producing solid cars acrost the range? (the answer to that question kids, is a resounding NO!) Which points towards limited brand loyalty on your part.
Personally i'll try to own the best of what i can afford regardless of brand. Amsoil has the better properties in terms of water, and the temps are materially the same (yes I brought in materiality). end-o-story for me.
Sep 27, 2010, 02:48 PM
#105
kyooch, you must also bleed the clutch because it is a seperate system and air may be trapped,, but the fluid is comming from the brakes mastercylinder,,, so when bleeding the brakes you filll the brakes reservour when bleeding the clutch you must fill the same reservour.