My Horrible Experience With Jackson Auto Machine (J.A.M.)
Sep 11, 2013, 05:13 AM
#1
My Horrible Experience With Jackson Auto Machine (J.A.M.)
Sorry for the long post, I am a stickler for details.
My stock engine blew up on 6/14/13. I immediately began researching and pricing parts to assemble a new engine. I spoke to Oliver, who quoted me 675.00 for a set of their evo connecting rods. I also checked prices on a lot of other parts but they aren’t really important to the story. I then started looking for a reputable machine shop to do the machine work, preferably with 4G63 experience. Jackson stood out because they are so close, and they have plenty of 4G63 experience. I drove to Jackson to speak with Tony, which is the person who does the 4G63 machine work, about getting the machine work done. Initially I wanted to build a 2.2 destroked 4G64, but he talked me into doing a 2.3 stroker. Afterwards I realized a 2.3 would not be a good engine for me to drag race with, so I told Tony that I was actually going to go with my original plan, the destroked 4G64. Although I had no intentions of paying them to assemble my engine, nor did I falsely imply that I wanted them to, they included engine assembly and parts in the estimate so that if I decided to purchase the parts through them or have them assemble the engine I would know how much it is. I told him from the start that I was assembling the engine and I only wanted machine work done. What immediately caught my attention in their estimate was they were charging me 775.00 for a set of Oliver connecting rods, 100.00 more than I, a retail buyer, could purchase the connecting rods for from Oliver. I was shocked, as most of you would be. I purchased my rotating assembly from a friend that owns a nearby shop, who is a Manley dealer, which is what I intended on doing from the beginning. He gave me a very good deal on the parts.
The parts arrived from Manley the week before 8/5/13. I drove to the machine shop on 8/5/13 to drop 500.00 off to them, which was approximately half of the estimate, and speak to Tony about my final plans with the machine work. I wanted a 4G64 block bored/honed with torque plate to my .020” pistons, line bored, and decked. I was purchasing a 4G64 block from Jackson for 375.00, which is a little more than the going rate but I figured if I bought it from the machine shop at least I would know that the block isn’t damaged and can be used for what I want. I figured the 75.00 more that I paid them was cheap insurance. I didn’t bring the pistons with me on 8/5/13 because they were at my house and I had driven to Jackson straight from work. I told Tony that I would bring him the pistons in a few days.
I brought Tony the .020” over size pistons on 8/7/13. Tony told me that he would try to finish my block up next week, since he was going on vacation the week after. Tony said that if he didn’t finish the machine work before he left for vacation he would finish it the week that he returns from his one week vacation. He didn’t finish the machine work prior to leaving for vacation. He called me on 9/5/13. This was our conversation:
Tony: “Hey Tom, you need new pistons.”
Me: “Why?” (I was thinking my pistons might have a defect.)
Tony: “I had to bore the block .040” to remove the blemish from the cylinder wall.”
Me: “I don’t want my block bored .040” over, I want it bored .020” over.”
Tony: “If you don’t mind me asking, why?”
Me: “I don’t want the cylinder walls to be that thin.”
Tony: “All of my blocks will need to be bored .040” over.”
Me: “That’s fine, I will come pick up my money and parts tomorrow.”
I drove to the machine shop after work Friday and Tony said that he had found a block in the back that should clean up boring to .020” and that he would call me Monday to let me know if we can go any further or not. After work Monday, at approximately 3:00, I called Jackson to ask about the block. This was our conversation:
Me: “Hey Tony, what is going on with my block?”
Tony: “What do you mean?”
Me: “Did you bore it?”
Tony: “No, I haven’t gotten to it yet.”
Me: “When are you going to get to it?”
Tony: “I have one block on the boring machine now and another to do after it. Your block will be next in line. Why, are you in a hurry?”
Me: “I want to get my engine done.”
Tony: “I’ll try to get to it today.”
Me: “I thought you said it was going to be done today?”
Tony: “I might be able to get to it later.”
Me: “Ok.”
We hung up. I was very frustrated so I called him back and said forget it, I’m coming to get my pistons and money, and going somewhere else for the machine work. He said ok. I drove to the machine shop on Tuesday to pick up my pistons and refund of 500.00. To my surprise he handed me my box of pistons and a check for 360.00. I said where is my other 140.00? Jerry Jackson, the owner, said we are charging you 2 hours labor for talking to you and doing the machine work on the block. I told them that they did not do the work that I wanted. They supplied the block and said it would be good for .020” over bore. I thought that since I bought the block from the machine shop they would know prior to starting machine work whether the block would have been acceptable to use for my .020” over pistons. They said well we told you we have a block that should clean up at .020” over bore. I said you were supposed to call me yesterday to tell me whether it was good or not and you didn’t. I had finally been jerked around enough and wanted my money back. I said it was supposed to be done yesterday, not be in line behind a bunch of other people. He said you aren’t the only customer I have, to which I replied, I know, and I respect that. He said they actually spend some money, unlike you. I said I did spend money, I gave you 500.00 for the work that was supposed to be done. I said so if you spend more money, your machine work gets done first? He said yes. I said that isn’t the way you are supposed to do business and he said don’t tell me how to run my business. After arguing for a while longer he told me if I didn’t leave he was going to call the police and have me removed. I said go ahead, call them. I want to talk to them anyway. The police forced me to leave and told me that the machine shop had requested he tell me that Jerry doesn’t want me to come back or call anymore.
I intend on disputing my credit card charges or taking him to small claims court. During our lengthy argument he told me they normally don’t take the first half of the money with a credit card, it must be cash. I now see why they do this, so you can’t dispute the charges. They also called the first half of the money that I gave them to start the work a “good faith deposit”, which I thought was interesting.
I am still in disbelief that they machined a block to .040” when I clearly told them I wanted a .020” over size block. They performed the wrong work and I never received what I wanted. I have nothing to show for. Then, when I told them that I want my money and parts back because they are taking too long, they kept a portion of my money for their labor to do incorrect work.
I’m not telling anyone to go there or not go there for machine work. This is my personal experience with them. I’m not on here to call people names like a child; you can make your own decision about them. I opted to post this on evolutionm because I know they frequent the forum and I want them to see it. I hope they have a response. They know how I feel about them so this should not come as a surprise.
I am usually not in a huge hurry to get my parts. I regularly deal with STM, and have spent thousands of dollars there. I’ve lost count how much money I have spent with them. I’m not a window shopper. When I talk about buying something, I buy it. There is a race November 1st that I was going to attend, so I needed to have my car back together by mid October, at the very least. At this point it looks like my car will not be back together in time, solely due to Jackson.
My stock engine blew up on 6/14/13. I immediately began researching and pricing parts to assemble a new engine. I spoke to Oliver, who quoted me 675.00 for a set of their evo connecting rods. I also checked prices on a lot of other parts but they aren’t really important to the story. I then started looking for a reputable machine shop to do the machine work, preferably with 4G63 experience. Jackson stood out because they are so close, and they have plenty of 4G63 experience. I drove to Jackson to speak with Tony, which is the person who does the 4G63 machine work, about getting the machine work done. Initially I wanted to build a 2.2 destroked 4G64, but he talked me into doing a 2.3 stroker. Afterwards I realized a 2.3 would not be a good engine for me to drag race with, so I told Tony that I was actually going to go with my original plan, the destroked 4G64. Although I had no intentions of paying them to assemble my engine, nor did I falsely imply that I wanted them to, they included engine assembly and parts in the estimate so that if I decided to purchase the parts through them or have them assemble the engine I would know how much it is. I told him from the start that I was assembling the engine and I only wanted machine work done. What immediately caught my attention in their estimate was they were charging me 775.00 for a set of Oliver connecting rods, 100.00 more than I, a retail buyer, could purchase the connecting rods for from Oliver. I was shocked, as most of you would be. I purchased my rotating assembly from a friend that owns a nearby shop, who is a Manley dealer, which is what I intended on doing from the beginning. He gave me a very good deal on the parts.
The parts arrived from Manley the week before 8/5/13. I drove to the machine shop on 8/5/13 to drop 500.00 off to them, which was approximately half of the estimate, and speak to Tony about my final plans with the machine work. I wanted a 4G64 block bored/honed with torque plate to my .020” pistons, line bored, and decked. I was purchasing a 4G64 block from Jackson for 375.00, which is a little more than the going rate but I figured if I bought it from the machine shop at least I would know that the block isn’t damaged and can be used for what I want. I figured the 75.00 more that I paid them was cheap insurance. I didn’t bring the pistons with me on 8/5/13 because they were at my house and I had driven to Jackson straight from work. I told Tony that I would bring him the pistons in a few days.
I brought Tony the .020” over size pistons on 8/7/13. Tony told me that he would try to finish my block up next week, since he was going on vacation the week after. Tony said that if he didn’t finish the machine work before he left for vacation he would finish it the week that he returns from his one week vacation. He didn’t finish the machine work prior to leaving for vacation. He called me on 9/5/13. This was our conversation:
Tony: “Hey Tom, you need new pistons.”
Me: “Why?” (I was thinking my pistons might have a defect.)
Tony: “I had to bore the block .040” to remove the blemish from the cylinder wall.”
Me: “I don’t want my block bored .040” over, I want it bored .020” over.”
Tony: “If you don’t mind me asking, why?”
Me: “I don’t want the cylinder walls to be that thin.”
Tony: “All of my blocks will need to be bored .040” over.”
Me: “That’s fine, I will come pick up my money and parts tomorrow.”
I drove to the machine shop after work Friday and Tony said that he had found a block in the back that should clean up boring to .020” and that he would call me Monday to let me know if we can go any further or not. After work Monday, at approximately 3:00, I called Jackson to ask about the block. This was our conversation:
Me: “Hey Tony, what is going on with my block?”
Tony: “What do you mean?”
Me: “Did you bore it?”
Tony: “No, I haven’t gotten to it yet.”
Me: “When are you going to get to it?”
Tony: “I have one block on the boring machine now and another to do after it. Your block will be next in line. Why, are you in a hurry?”
Me: “I want to get my engine done.”
Tony: “I’ll try to get to it today.”
Me: “I thought you said it was going to be done today?”
Tony: “I might be able to get to it later.”
Me: “Ok.”
We hung up. I was very frustrated so I called him back and said forget it, I’m coming to get my pistons and money, and going somewhere else for the machine work. He said ok. I drove to the machine shop on Tuesday to pick up my pistons and refund of 500.00. To my surprise he handed me my box of pistons and a check for 360.00. I said where is my other 140.00? Jerry Jackson, the owner, said we are charging you 2 hours labor for talking to you and doing the machine work on the block. I told them that they did not do the work that I wanted. They supplied the block and said it would be good for .020” over bore. I thought that since I bought the block from the machine shop they would know prior to starting machine work whether the block would have been acceptable to use for my .020” over pistons. They said well we told you we have a block that should clean up at .020” over bore. I said you were supposed to call me yesterday to tell me whether it was good or not and you didn’t. I had finally been jerked around enough and wanted my money back. I said it was supposed to be done yesterday, not be in line behind a bunch of other people. He said you aren’t the only customer I have, to which I replied, I know, and I respect that. He said they actually spend some money, unlike you. I said I did spend money, I gave you 500.00 for the work that was supposed to be done. I said so if you spend more money, your machine work gets done first? He said yes. I said that isn’t the way you are supposed to do business and he said don’t tell me how to run my business. After arguing for a while longer he told me if I didn’t leave he was going to call the police and have me removed. I said go ahead, call them. I want to talk to them anyway. The police forced me to leave and told me that the machine shop had requested he tell me that Jerry doesn’t want me to come back or call anymore.
I intend on disputing my credit card charges or taking him to small claims court. During our lengthy argument he told me they normally don’t take the first half of the money with a credit card, it must be cash. I now see why they do this, so you can’t dispute the charges. They also called the first half of the money that I gave them to start the work a “good faith deposit”, which I thought was interesting.
I am still in disbelief that they machined a block to .040” when I clearly told them I wanted a .020” over size block. They performed the wrong work and I never received what I wanted. I have nothing to show for. Then, when I told them that I want my money and parts back because they are taking too long, they kept a portion of my money for their labor to do incorrect work.
I’m not telling anyone to go there or not go there for machine work. This is my personal experience with them. I’m not on here to call people names like a child; you can make your own decision about them. I opted to post this on evolutionm because I know they frequent the forum and I want them to see it. I hope they have a response. They know how I feel about them so this should not come as a surprise.
I am usually not in a huge hurry to get my parts. I regularly deal with STM, and have spent thousands of dollars there. I’ve lost count how much money I have spent with them. I’m not a window shopper. When I talk about buying something, I buy it. There is a race November 1st that I was going to attend, so I needed to have my car back together by mid October, at the very least. At this point it looks like my car will not be back together in time, solely due to Jackson.
(Yea I'm a dick like that).
Trending Topics
Sep 11, 2013, 05:59 PM
#8
Since they supplied the block I believe you are 100% correct. If you had supplied it and the gouge was that deep than your bad. I had a machine shop do a similar thing to me 12yrs ago. Sucks when they take your money and won't give it back. They jerked me around for 10 weeks!
Sep 11, 2013, 06:25 PM
#9
Since they supplied the block I believe you are 100% correct. If you had supplied it and the gouge was that deep than your bad. I had a machine shop do a similar thing to me 12yrs ago. Sucks when they take your money and won't give it back. They jerked me around for 10 weeks!
Sep 11, 2013, 08:02 PM
#10
There was another thread not too long ago providing a bad review of J.A.M. The new manager posted with a well worded response claiming all the horror stories of the past were just that, past. It seems the practices haven't changed much, if at all.
I wonder if they'll bother replying here. If they do, I imagine you'll be made out to be an intolerable customer who received services beyond what was paid for and was difficult from the beginning.
Hopefully people stop providing this shoddy operation with business. The sooner they close down, the better.
I wonder if they'll bother replying here. If they do, I imagine you'll be made out to be an intolerable customer who received services beyond what was paid for and was difficult from the beginning.
Hopefully people stop providing this shoddy operation with business. The sooner they close down, the better.
Sep 12, 2013, 01:10 AM
#11
There was another thread not too long ago providing a bad review of J.A.M. The new manager posted with a well worded response claiming all the horror stories of the past were just that, past. It seems the practices haven't changed much, if at all.
I wonder if they'll bother replying here. If they do, I imagine you'll be made out to be an intolerable customer who received services beyond what was paid for and was difficult from the beginning.
Hopefully people stop providing this shoddy operation with business. The sooner they close down, the better.
I wonder if they'll bother replying here. If they do, I imagine you'll be made out to be an intolerable customer who received services beyond what was paid for and was difficult from the beginning.
Hopefully people stop providing this shoddy operation with business. The sooner they close down, the better.
Sep 12, 2013, 06:38 AM
#12
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PM sent to help get you sorted for your race.
JAM isn't what they used to be. With Carmela gone, the operation has gone to sh*t. I still can't believe they charged me $600 for porting some intake manifolds back in 2002 that saw a net 1hp gain on a dyno (probably because the car was now cold on the 2nd run after swapping manifolds). Now that I know way more than I did then, I know they spent less than 30 minutes on my manifolds, went less than an inch in the runners and was craptastic work. I redid the manifolds myself, spent 10 hours on them and picked up 15whp.
JAM isn't what they used to be. With Carmela gone, the operation has gone to sh*t. I still can't believe they charged me $600 for porting some intake manifolds back in 2002 that saw a net 1hp gain on a dyno (probably because the car was now cold on the 2nd run after swapping manifolds). Now that I know way more than I did then, I know they spent less than 30 minutes on my manifolds, went less than an inch in the runners and was craptastic work. I redid the manifolds myself, spent 10 hours on them and picked up 15whp.
Sep 12, 2013, 07:18 AM
#13
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Tom,
Once you explained that you didn't want to use a .040" block I worked on sorting out another option. That was Friday evening and I told you I'd have news for you on Monday. I got on it right away but needed until the end of the day to get it machined but you didn't give me the chance. I simply couldn't stop what I was working on, pull out another core block and machine it right away. All I needed was until close of business on Monday and I'm certain that your experience would have been the polar opposite of what you posted in this thread.
Once you explained that you didn't want to use a .040" block I worked on sorting out another option. That was Friday evening and I told you I'd have news for you on Monday. I got on it right away but needed until the end of the day to get it machined but you didn't give me the chance. I simply couldn't stop what I was working on, pull out another core block and machine it right away. All I needed was until close of business on Monday and I'm certain that your experience would have been the polar opposite of what you posted in this thread.
Sep 12, 2013, 11:11 AM
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I don't understand the point of your post wingless. The OP has a valid issue. I don't care about the parts markup or anything else. The bottom line is that if you sell someone a "good" core, it better be that. If JAM sold this guy a good core, it is reasonable to expect that the bores are good and boring them .020 over should result in perfect fitment for new pistons. If the core needs boring to .040 that means the core was damaged and is NOT a "good" core. Is it a usable core? Sure. However that is not what was contracted between the end user and the business now is it? The customer told the business he wanted a core good for a .020 overbore and JAM said they could supply it. If the core they supply is then not good at .020 that does not mean that the customer must supply new pistons, it means that the person providing the core better find a core that is good at .020 over. The loss in time for machining their "good" core to .020 is not technically a loss. JAM now knows their core is only good at .040 and can now try to resell that to someone else as it is quite evident that it would not work for the contracted agreement made between the customer and JAM. If JAM is charging for a core, it is on them to find an appropriate replacement.
JAM might do some nice machining, WHEN their heads are in it. However the way this case was handled shows questionable business ethics which has been JAMs problems for a long time, not necessarily the work that they have done.
How would you feel if you paid $1,200 PER HOUR for porting? Yes, I still carry a grudge about that to this day because it's absolutely ridiculous to rip someone off just because they don't know any better. It's also ridiculous to charge someone for something that you were supposed to provide that wasn't as you stated.
JAM might do some nice machining, WHEN their heads are in it. However the way this case was handled shows questionable business ethics which has been JAMs problems for a long time, not necessarily the work that they have done.
How would you feel if you paid $1,200 PER HOUR for porting? Yes, I still carry a grudge about that to this day because it's absolutely ridiculous to rip someone off just because they don't know any better. It's also ridiculous to charge someone for something that you were supposed to provide that wasn't as you stated.