machron1

iTrader: (1)

Shiv,

Maybe this guy could help:
Paul Vind, Western Ethanol LLC, (559) 779-2040

He's an ethanol wholesaler for the west coast. I just talked to him and he said he's in the process of putting in E85 pumps up here in Oregon, but in CA they can't do it till they of course change some laws (CA lawmakers suck). If you could possibly get it in CA (maybe just on a per-case bases, like filling a container from a bigger container or something) he would probably be the guy to talk to.

machron1

iTrader: (1)

Anyone know what the fuel tank, fuel lines, seals, etc are made of/lined with in the Evo? Will any of those items degrade with such a high concentration of ethanol for fuel? E85 is of course 85% ethanol which is known to react with aluminum and many rubber materials.

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

FWIW, AFR's in cruise will need to be richer.. If you can "Trick" the O2 sensor to hover at that AFR, you can do this easily..


I am definitely interested in this, to the point of actually building a small engine that runs on Ethanol (Methanol is rough to work with since its corrosive)

Our fuel lines do have aluminum and some rubber seals in them, so you have to address that.. Other than that, a fuel map, and getting open loop fueling to hover around 12:1 or richer with E85

In theory, if you live in a warm climate, you should be able to run entirely ethanol, unfortunately when an engine is cold, its pretty difficult to get alcohol to atomize/vaporize well so cold start is difficult (and has been the biggest stumbling block) I had heard some theories on using a method of atomizing ethanol using ultrasonic waves (like a humidifier) in the intake manifold instead of using fuel injectors.. which would address this issue.

Anyone interested in this PM me since its a theory I was working on..

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

I think mitsubishi offers a version of the lancer that is flex fuel compatible.. Not sure if its europe or asia.. But it should share many of the components in our fuel system and probably uses materials that won't be harmed by corrosive fuels like Methanol.

djh

A narrow band doesn't care what the fuel is, it measures O2 concentration relative to the atmosphere. At lambda=1 it reads 0.5v regardless of the corresponding AFR. You'll have to do some trickery for other things, but this you get for free!

Dave

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Oh even better.. My attempts at flex fuel go back to the carb days.. I have a lawn mower that runs on alcohol so I don't have to drink alone..

machron1

iTrader: (1)

Man it would be so groovy to run on corn squeezings, send a big middle finger to the middle east, and run at full timing advance at 22+ psi on pump...*yay*

ride22

iTrader: (9)

I would love to see this work. I was talking to one of my professors today and he said that gas is going to go up again. Currently it hangs at $2.64 per gallon (87 oct) and he was saying that it will go above $3.00 in a short time.

machron1

iTrader: (1)

Yeah and it doesn't help that we can't run 87 octane we have to run premium which is normally about $0.20 more expensive!

donour

iTrader: (6)

Think of it this way. As the price of gas goes up, the marginal price goes down. Sure $0.20 was a lot when gas was $0.79/gal, but at $4.00 it's only 5%.

d

skiracer

iTrader: (1)

Here in socal, we tune for 87 octane :P

machron1

iTrader: (1)

LOL How much boost can you run on a stock ECU on 87 octane? I was actually thinking about this when I was sitting in traffic today, basically parked, burning 92 octane for no reason when I could have been burning like 80 octane & been fine lol.

sandm

iTrader: (11)

we have a station in boise start selling this a few months ago. the article in the paper stated that if your car was not designed from the factory to run it, DONT....
it is supposed to be hell on the rubber parts in the fuel systems. the article stated that fuel pumps, lines and seals will corrode after a year of use. the cars designed to run on it have a diff. fuel system.

a novel approach, but is your car worth the "test"? I am not going to risk it.. a few more mpg isn't worth it.
my thought has always been with the evo that it is an expensive car to drive and if you can't maintain it properly, then sell it...

just my .02

machron1

iTrader: (1)

Uhhhhhhhh those instructions are for Joe Blow the non-car person so dumbasses don't just wheel up in their 1978 El Dorado, fill up with the stuff, and wonder why their carburator now looks like a decorative fountain as it spews fuel all over the exhaust manifold, starting a lovely near-invisible fire.

If you know anything about cars, the parts you mentioned are not very hard at all to modify or replace. So, what exactly is the big experiment? Fuel pumps? fuel lines? If all it takes is running a different fuel pump & some stainless lines w/ AN fittings, and running a different ECU map, it's a joke if you DON'T run E85 if it is available. With ultra-high octane fuel cheaper than pump gas, you could have your cake and eat it too. I don't see a down side...it's not as if I would be compromising my car by running pisswater through it, ethanol burns cool, resists knock, and if used properly (ie full timing advance & lots of boost) it makes plenty of power. I was reading about the new Saab dual-fuel turbo car. With gasoline it adjusts the boost down to around 8 psi. and retards the timing and makes 150hp. That same car with a tank of E85 knows to up the boost to around 15psi, advances the timing, and makes upwards of 180 horsepower. Do you see the potential or are you just going to listen to the word they spread to the masses on the evening news?

Bottom Line: Don't believe everything you read...

Oh yeah, and if ethanol is so bad for your seals...why are you running a gasoline-ethanol blend RIGHT NOW? lol. If you dont' believe me go read the gas pumps you fill your car up with. Most premium either part of the year or all year is up to 10% ethanol...to boost octane and cut emissions...don't listen to BIG OIL they don't have your best interests in mind Higher concentrations may or may not degrade the rubber in our car, but if someone has a definitive answer then it's not hard to change what needs changing.


EDIT: Update: I called a local company called Tarr INC about buying E85 by the 55 gallon drum. They have the stuff in their computer but they don't have a price for it, so he's going to get back with me on Monday to tell me what's going on with it. He said he had to talk to the supplier. We'll see what pans out.

RFH

Im glad to see somepeople out side of the Midwest take interest in E85 as a performance fuel. Just a few pros and cons.
Pros- Made in the US, 105 PON, 35% 02 /wt, 5% hp gains N/A, turbos love alcohol

Cons- Lower heating value, somewhat corrosive (WAY less than methanol, and if your already using E10 then no real worries), cold starting sucks, need to mod fuel system to flow aprox 30% more fuel (ie big injectors and pump) and also a remap

this is really cool and i hope someone can pull it off.