Gas Prices too high - time for FFV mods?
Aug 24, 2005, 01:07 PM
#47
Hey guys.. Some additional information for you..
The areas of concern for seals on our cars is the Fuel pickup, the O-rings on the fuel pump, the O rings on the fuel injectors and some small non-critical components. Cold start on fuel injection shouldn't be a huge problem, you may have to run 1 to 2 step hotter spark plugs also. From a Fuel map standpoint, you have two options, remapping the ECU, or using slightly larger injectors (15-20% larger I think) sized to the increased fuel requirement in open loop fueling. As said earlier, closed loop fuel control is based on O2 sensor reading of the narrowband and it should adjust accordingly.
The first few tanks of alcohol fuel will apparently completely clean every part of the engine that has gotten gunk and carbon deposits on it, so expect to have clogged fuel filters and possibly have to unclog/clean your injectors.. That concerns me though..
You can/will have to remap your timing curve for best performance (duh!
)
In very cold climates, you might have to preheat the fuel, but I think that only applied to carb engines (I did alot of research on it, and most of this information dates back to the 70's during the first fuel crisis)
I have an old honda that I may convert over the winter to see what is involved.. 550cc Evo injectors I have laying around, and a chipped ECU for the honda should be all I need other than replacing non-compatible fuel system parts... My honda is getting an Evo turbo, apparently in my readings, Turbocharged engines are the best candidates for conversion due to their ability to alter boost where N/A engines need raised compression to gain back the small amount of lost power...
Guys, this turns out to be very easily doable.. But I need to figure out the specific components on our cars that are made of rubber/plastic in the fuel system, then determine if their alcohol compatible or not.
The areas of concern for seals on our cars is the Fuel pickup, the O-rings on the fuel pump, the O rings on the fuel injectors and some small non-critical components. Cold start on fuel injection shouldn't be a huge problem, you may have to run 1 to 2 step hotter spark plugs also. From a Fuel map standpoint, you have two options, remapping the ECU, or using slightly larger injectors (15-20% larger I think) sized to the increased fuel requirement in open loop fueling. As said earlier, closed loop fuel control is based on O2 sensor reading of the narrowband and it should adjust accordingly.
The first few tanks of alcohol fuel will apparently completely clean every part of the engine that has gotten gunk and carbon deposits on it, so expect to have clogged fuel filters and possibly have to unclog/clean your injectors.. That concerns me though..
You can/will have to remap your timing curve for best performance (duh!
)In very cold climates, you might have to preheat the fuel, but I think that only applied to carb engines (I did alot of research on it, and most of this information dates back to the 70's during the first fuel crisis)
I have an old honda that I may convert over the winter to see what is involved.. 550cc Evo injectors I have laying around, and a chipped ECU for the honda should be all I need other than replacing non-compatible fuel system parts... My honda is getting an Evo turbo, apparently in my readings, Turbocharged engines are the best candidates for conversion due to their ability to alter boost where N/A engines need raised compression to gain back the small amount of lost power...
Guys, this turns out to be very easily doable.. But I need to figure out the specific components on our cars that are made of rubber/plastic in the fuel system, then determine if their alcohol compatible or not.
Aug 24, 2005, 01:22 PM
#48
Thanks for the info jack. My interest is somewhat renewed now that I've found an E85 pump in albuquerque. Now that I'm out of the cold climates and my car is no longer needed for daily driving, I'm more apt to attempt such a conversion.
Do people have an idea about exactly how much more boost we're talking here? Would it be enough to the stock motor in serious danger?
d
Do people have an idea about exactly how much more boost we're talking here? Would it be enough to the stock motor in serious danger?
d
Aug 24, 2005, 03:43 PM
#49
Originally Posted by donour
Thanks for the info jack. My interest is somewhat renewed now that I've found an E85 pump in albuquerque. Now that I'm out of the cold climates and my car is no longer needed for daily driving, I'm more apt to attempt such a conversion.
Do people have an idea about exactly how much more boost we're talking here? Would it be enough to the stock motor in serious danger?
d
Do people have an idea about exactly how much more boost we're talking here? Would it be enough to the stock motor in serious danger?
d
Aug 24, 2005, 05:36 PM
#50
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First - O rings and rubber are probably ok if the car is designed to run on E10
Cold start can be fixed by adding a ton of starting injection fuel
As far as mapping, the base map needs 30 % added everywhere, then the o2 can feed back with the trims less than 20%, then you should dyno the WOT (open loop areas to be safe)
But overall its pretty easy, if you can get the fuel
Cold start can be fixed by adding a ton of starting injection fuel
As far as mapping, the base map needs 30 % added everywhere, then the o2 can feed back with the trims less than 20%, then you should dyno the WOT (open loop areas to be safe)
But overall its pretty easy, if you can get the fuel
Aug 31, 2005, 05:25 PM
#51
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anymore input on this?? seriosuly worth considering now after this storm hit...some counties in my state are almost out of gas completely...expecting regular to go $3.20+ by the end of the week...
OUCH
OUCH
Aug 31, 2005, 07:05 PM
#53
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well, the only 2 e85 sources in raleigh are gov access only (dumb)...so even if i were to use it, i guess i would have to have it shipped...which may not be worth it...ugh this sucks bigtime
Aug 31, 2005, 09:12 PM
#57
I am sorry if I am getting of topic but we can only blame the american on this, we "love" the SUVs, we "love" the inefficient american "muscle"truck that give us a pathetic 8-10mpg in town.
We must stop this crap of keep making V8 and V10 Dodge engine and Ford engines. The gasoline prices are NEVER going to go down and we still have the mentality of making pathetic V8 engines that produces 40HP per liter. Cmon gentleman, I will never support and industry like that, we are 30 years behind the Europeans and Japonese..
While in Europe they have already a market of 60% Diesel cars we have a pathetic market that keep us "inspired" with cars like Honda Hybrid and Toyota Prius.
Lets be realistic, in Europe they make all the diesel cars Turbo diesel with multivale heads, variable turbo trust turbine,direct injection common rail, aluminium block and heads and they are faster than the gasoline engines.
Why can we do that? why are we so cocky in all the aspects but in reality we are so far behing in engine technology?
When are we going to see a fu$king american manufacturer making engines with cams in the heads or mutivalves engine. I am soo seek and tired of this...
Lets brings the troops home, lets worry about making efficient car with eficcient gas mileage and lets the rest of the world worry about themselves.
It is pathetic that today I saw in Fox news at a BP gas station in Atlanta asking for $6.07 for a fu$cking galon of gas. F$ck that man...
my .2c
We must stop this crap of keep making V8 and V10 Dodge engine and Ford engines. The gasoline prices are NEVER going to go down and we still have the mentality of making pathetic V8 engines that produces 40HP per liter. Cmon gentleman, I will never support and industry like that, we are 30 years behind the Europeans and Japonese..
While in Europe they have already a market of 60% Diesel cars we have a pathetic market that keep us "inspired" with cars like Honda Hybrid and Toyota Prius.
Lets be realistic, in Europe they make all the diesel cars Turbo diesel with multivale heads, variable turbo trust turbine,direct injection common rail, aluminium block and heads and they are faster than the gasoline engines.
Why can we do that? why are we so cocky in all the aspects but in reality we are so far behing in engine technology?
When are we going to see a fu$king american manufacturer making engines with cams in the heads or mutivalves engine. I am soo seek and tired of this...
Lets brings the troops home, lets worry about making efficient car with eficcient gas mileage and lets the rest of the world worry about themselves.
It is pathetic that today I saw in Fox news at a BP gas station in Atlanta asking for $6.07 for a fu$cking galon of gas. F$ck that man...
my .2c
Aug 31, 2005, 09:15 PM
#58
I am sorry if I am getting of topic but we can only blame the american on this, we "love" the SUVs, we "love" the inefficient american "muscle"truck that give us a pathetic 8-10mpg in town.
We must stop this crap of keep making V8 and V10 Dodge engine and Ford engines. The gasoline prices are NEVER going to go down and we still have the mentality of making pathetic V8 engines that produces 40HP per liter. Cmon gentleman, I will never support and industry like that, we are 30 years behind the Europeans and Japonese..
While in Europe they have already a market of 60% Diesel cars we have a pathetic market that keep us "inspired" with cars like Honda Hybrid and Toyota Prius.
Wake up american Industry!! 70-80% of the turbo diesels in Europe average 60-65MPG and yes they no longer spit black smoke, they are cleaner and 100 times more efficient. Don't try to convence me with a freaking Toyota Prius...
Lets be realistic, in Europe they make all the diesel cars Turbo diesel with multivale heads, variable turbo trust turbine,direct injection common rail, aluminium block and heads and they are faster than the gasoline engines.
Why cann't we do that? why are we so cocky in all the aspects but in reality we are so far behing in engine technology?
When are we going to see a fu$king american manufacturer making engines with cams in the heads or mutivalves engine. I am soo seek and tired of this...
Lets brings the troops home, lets worry about making efficient car with eficcient gas mileage and lets the rest of the world worry about themselves.
It is pathetic that today I saw in Fox news at a BP gas station in Atlanta asking for $6.07 for a fu$cking galon of gas. F$ck that man...
my .2c
We must stop this crap of keep making V8 and V10 Dodge engine and Ford engines. The gasoline prices are NEVER going to go down and we still have the mentality of making pathetic V8 engines that produces 40HP per liter. Cmon gentleman, I will never support and industry like that, we are 30 years behind the Europeans and Japonese..
While in Europe they have already a market of 60% Diesel cars we have a pathetic market that keep us "inspired" with cars like Honda Hybrid and Toyota Prius.
Wake up american Industry!! 70-80% of the turbo diesels in Europe average 60-65MPG and yes they no longer spit black smoke, they are cleaner and 100 times more efficient. Don't try to convence me with a freaking Toyota Prius...
Lets be realistic, in Europe they make all the diesel cars Turbo diesel with multivale heads, variable turbo trust turbine,direct injection common rail, aluminium block and heads and they are faster than the gasoline engines.
Why cann't we do that? why are we so cocky in all the aspects but in reality we are so far behing in engine technology?
When are we going to see a fu$king american manufacturer making engines with cams in the heads or mutivalves engine. I am soo seek and tired of this...
Lets brings the troops home, lets worry about making efficient car with eficcient gas mileage and lets the rest of the world worry about themselves.
It is pathetic that today I saw in Fox news at a BP gas station in Atlanta asking for $6.07 for a fu$cking galon of gas. F$ck that man...
my .2c
Aug 31, 2005, 09:53 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by fromWRXtoEVO
I am sorry if I am getting of topic but we can only blame the american on this, we "love" the SUVs, we "love" the inefficient american "muscle"truck that give us a pathetic 8-10mpg in town.
We must stop this crap of keep making V8 and V10 Dodge engine and Ford engines. The gasoline prices are NEVER going to go down and we still have the mentality of making pathetic V8 engines that produces 40HP per liter. Cmon gentleman, I will never support and industry like that, we are 30 years behind the Europeans and Japonese..
While in Europe they have already a market of 60% Diesel cars we have a pathetic market that keep us "inspired" with cars like Honda Hybrid and Toyota Prius.
Wake up american Industry!! 70-80% of the turbo diesels in Europe average 60-65MPG and yes they no longer spit black smoke, they are cleaner and 100 times more efficient. Don't try to convence me with a freaking Toyota Prius...
Lets be realistic, in Europe they make all the diesel cars Turbo diesel with multivale heads, variable turbo trust turbine,direct injection common rail, aluminium block and heads and they are faster than the gasoline engines.
Why cann't we do that? why are we so cocky in all the aspects but in reality we are so far behing in engine technology?
When are we going to see a fu$king american manufacturer making engines with cams in the heads or mutivalves engine. I am soo seek and tired of this...
Lets brings the troops home, lets worry about making efficient car with eficcient gas mileage and lets the rest of the world worry about themselves.
It is pathetic that today I saw in Fox news at a BP gas station in Atlanta asking for $6.07 for a fu$cking galon of gas. F$ck that man...
my .2c
We must stop this crap of keep making V8 and V10 Dodge engine and Ford engines. The gasoline prices are NEVER going to go down and we still have the mentality of making pathetic V8 engines that produces 40HP per liter. Cmon gentleman, I will never support and industry like that, we are 30 years behind the Europeans and Japonese..
While in Europe they have already a market of 60% Diesel cars we have a pathetic market that keep us "inspired" with cars like Honda Hybrid and Toyota Prius.
Wake up american Industry!! 70-80% of the turbo diesels in Europe average 60-65MPG and yes they no longer spit black smoke, they are cleaner and 100 times more efficient. Don't try to convence me with a freaking Toyota Prius...
Lets be realistic, in Europe they make all the diesel cars Turbo diesel with multivale heads, variable turbo trust turbine,direct injection common rail, aluminium block and heads and they are faster than the gasoline engines.
Why cann't we do that? why are we so cocky in all the aspects but in reality we are so far behing in engine technology?
When are we going to see a fu$king american manufacturer making engines with cams in the heads or mutivalves engine. I am soo seek and tired of this...
Lets brings the troops home, lets worry about making efficient car with eficcient gas mileage and lets the rest of the world worry about themselves.
It is pathetic that today I saw in Fox news at a BP gas station in Atlanta asking for $6.07 for a fu$cking galon of gas. F$ck that man...
my .2c
The Amerikan economy runs on oil. Just ask Mr. Bush.
Back on topic. I would gladly put a map in my second bank on the Xede, (I have the toggle switch ready to go).
Sep 1, 2005, 12:40 AM
#60
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Just paid $3.20 a gallon for 91oct today. I can't believe it cost over 30 bucks to fill up the little 10 gallon tank in a Miata. WTH!?
shiv
shiv