Gas Prices too high - time for FFV mods?
Sep 2, 2005, 09:37 AM
#76
Originally Posted by MalibuJack
LOL yah, I actually wasn't directly addressing your points with that portion of the reply.. I was just expressing that we all need to put ourselves through a bit of discomfort and facilitate the change and allow these changes to happen without complaining about its costs..
I would have agreed on the viability if gas was still $1.90 a gallon and E86 was $3 a gallon.. but the timing is ripe to make change less painful and get things going.
I would have agreed on the viability if gas was still $1.90 a gallon and E86 was $3 a gallon.. but the timing is ripe to make change less painful and get things going.
I'm all for the environment, but I'm not going to kid myself and say I would run on E85 even if it was more expensive than premium.
And to the naysayers quoting studies done long ago by Big Oil to keep us in the dark about ethanol...you can make it for about $1/gal at home if you do it right, and I think the big plants can be more efficient than Joe Blow in his backyard if they really wanted to be. They are even working on genetically modified bacteria that eat anything with cellulose or sugar in it and convert it to ethanol. That's pretty much 1/3 of what we throw away in the garbage, not including restaurantes and such. I can envision (like they've had in germany for years and years to feed local livestock) another recycling bin for organic waste in all our homes and businesses. I'm willing to bet a family throws away about enough food waste in a week to make a tank of ethanol. This would significantly reduce the amount of land, care, and maintenenace needed for ethanol production since we are not using any free biomass as it stands right now. Then, if the processing plants ran on non-fossil fuel power of some kind (solar, wind, nuclear,geothermal, hydroelectric, etc) then it would take exactly _no_ fossil fuels to make ethanol. I'm not saying this is going to happen immediately, but just because ethanol production currently utilizes fresh corn grown using fossil fuels and processed with fossil fuels doesn't mean it has to be in the future.
At least using ethanol we would have the option _not_ to use fossil fuels. Using gasoline doesn't give us that option.
Last edited by machron1; Sep 2, 2005 at 09:39 AM.
Sep 2, 2005, 09:55 AM
#77
Originally Posted by machron1
And to the naysayers quoting studies done long ago by Big Oil to keep us in the dark about ethanol...you can make it for about $1/gal at home if you do it right, and I think the big plants can be more efficient than Joe Blow in his backyard if they really wanted to be. They are even working on genetically modified bacteria that eat anything with cellulose or sugar in it and convert it to ethanol. That's pretty much 1/3 of what we throw away in the garbage, not including restaurantes and such. I can envision (like they've had in germany for years and years to feed local livestock) another recycling bin for organic waste in all our homes and businesses. I'm willing to bet a family throws away about enough food waste in a week to make a tank of ethanol. This would significantly reduce the amount of land, care, and maintenenace needed for ethanol production since we are not using any free biomass as it stands right now. Then, if the processing plants ran on non-fossil fuel power of some kind (solar, wind, nuclear,geothermal, hydroelectric, etc) then it would take exactly _no_ fossil fuels to make ethanol. I'm not saying this is going to happen immediately, but just because ethanol production currently utilizes fresh corn grown using fossil fuels and processed with fossil fuels doesn't mean it has to be in the future.
At least using ethanol we would have the option _not_ to use fossil fuels. Using gasoline doesn't give us that option.
Do you have details on how exactly you can make fuel grade ethanol in your home for $1/gal? I'm not chemist, but I would guess that the raw materials would cost at least that much.
d
Sep 2, 2005, 10:38 AM
#78
Originally Posted by donour
I'm not referring to any report from some far off, mystical past. Look at _any_ recent DOE, academic, or economic study. The current ethanol process is inefficient.
Do you have details on how exactly you can make fuel grade ethanol in your home for $1/gal? I'm not chemist, but I would guess that the raw materials would cost at least that much.
d
Do you have details on how exactly you can make fuel grade ethanol in your home for $1/gal? I'm not chemist, but I would guess that the raw materials would cost at least that much.
d
http://www.eere.energy.gov/biomass/p...ary_040804.pdf
Sep 2, 2005, 11:00 AM
#80
Originally Posted by donour
EDIT: wrong link...argh...
Sep 4, 2005, 09:16 PM
#81
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the whole E85 process efficiency is a BIG misconception 80% of the papers written say the production of Ethanol is energy plus.
From E85fuel.com - (Current research prepared by Argonne National Laboratory (a U.S. Department of Energy Laboratory), indicates a 38% gain in the overall energy input/output equation for the corn-to-ethanol process.).
Also depending on how its figurted out, gasoline can be figured out to be energy negative, so that arguement is really meaning less.
From E85fuel.com - (Current research prepared by Argonne National Laboratory (a U.S. Department of Energy Laboratory), indicates a 38% gain in the overall energy input/output equation for the corn-to-ethanol process.).
Also depending on how its figurted out, gasoline can be figured out to be energy negative, so that arguement is really meaning less.
Last edited by RFH; Sep 4, 2005 at 09:17 PM. Reason: source
Sep 5, 2005, 02:48 PM
#82
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E95 Ethanol
Shiv,
I'm definitely down for running ethanol. But I want to run E95 (95% ethanol, 5% gasoline), which is the highest ration ethanol/gas you can legally use.
It's kind of ironic, my dad has been working with ethanol for the last 20 years. He does research at Baylor University here in Texas with aviation sciences and their entire fleet runs on ethanol. I have been talking to them about converting my Evo to run on E95, and they said yes! But since they work with aircraft engines, they know very little about the Evo. So I thought that with their expertise with Ethanol, and your expertise with the Evo, maybe we can come up with a solution that's faster and more efficient. Besides, they have a pretty decent Ethanol supply and shop.
I'm currently running a UTEC, but have been waiting for the SMART system tu switch over to the XEDE. If you get ethanol maps working, I'm defintely switching!
ss
I'm definitely down for running ethanol. But I want to run E95 (95% ethanol, 5% gasoline), which is the highest ration ethanol/gas you can legally use.
It's kind of ironic, my dad has been working with ethanol for the last 20 years. He does research at Baylor University here in Texas with aviation sciences and their entire fleet runs on ethanol. I have been talking to them about converting my Evo to run on E95, and they said yes! But since they work with aircraft engines, they know very little about the Evo. So I thought that with their expertise with Ethanol, and your expertise with the Evo, maybe we can come up with a solution that's faster and more efficient. Besides, they have a pretty decent Ethanol supply and shop.
I'm currently running a UTEC, but have been waiting for the SMART system tu switch over to the XEDE. If you get ethanol maps working, I'm defintely switching!
ss
Sep 6, 2005, 02:58 PM
#84
Evolving Member
Originally Posted by ride22
I cannot believe that you live in Cali and only paid $3.20 for 91... I just past a gas station here in Indiana and it was $3.29 for 87. I guess they are starting to gouge us.
Sep 6, 2005, 03:38 PM
#85
Evolving Member
Originally Posted by whitet777
Oh, I need it to tow a boat twice a year. No you don't. Rent a boat and save money on both the SUV and the boat! Or rent a truck when you want to haul your boat.
Tim
Tim
Sep 6, 2005, 03:57 PM
#86
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Originally Posted by speedshark
Shiv,
I'm definitely down for running ethanol. But I want to run E95 (95% ethanol, 5% gasoline), which is the highest ration ethanol/gas you can legally use.
ss
I'm definitely down for running ethanol. But I want to run E95 (95% ethanol, 5% gasoline), which is the highest ration ethanol/gas you can legally use.
ss
Sep 7, 2005, 07:50 AM
#88
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Originally Posted by RFH
no that would be bio diesel
ethanol has too much octane to be used in a CI engine, they need cetane
ethanol has too much octane to be used in a CI engine, they need cetane
Ethanol is defnitely NOT a diesel alternative. It's being used in high-performance applications. IRL is going to run an E90 system for their cars this year (http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?id=2003457), and the people I know here at Baylor run E95 in 1000hp airplane engines running >10k rpm!!! They usually see a 20% horsepower gain by switching from 93octane gas to E95! 20-frickin-percent!
ss
Sep 7, 2005, 09:39 AM
#90
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Originally Posted by RFH
no that would be bio diesel
ethanol has too much octane to be used in a CI engine, they need cetane
ethanol has too much octane to be used in a CI engine, they need cetane
http://www.truklink.com/articles/te/article0071.html
It's been a couple of years since I did any looking in to ethanol based fuels, so I'm a bit behind.
Last edited by andrew20195; Sep 7, 2005 at 09:44 AM.