zyounker

iTrader: (1)

Didnt read most of the thread There seems to be much bad info..


Ok, if you want to run E85 you are gonna need to change out your injectors. the BTU rating of E85 is almost 50% worse then normal fuel.. So you are gonna have to inject almost 2x as much fuel for your car to run.

(The evo gas take is rather small to begin with so this may be annoying)


As for worring about e85 drying out rubber in the fuel system, dont worry about it.. There is no rubber in any modern cars fuel system... Those ruber lines and gromets are not actually rubber.

If you live in a cold climate E85 can also be a issue as on cold mornings your car will be hard to start.. maybe impossible.



If you are really interested in this i suggest you look at LPG injection using a hobbs switch. Then you can fill up with 87 octane fuel and still boost to your hearts content.. Depending on how much LP you inject it is pretty easy to get 105 octane and get a cooler intake charge out of it.





-Zach

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Yeah thats what I figured.. in my research the fuel requirements are about 30% more fuel.. So thats on par with what your stating.

I also confirmed the fuel system doesn't have anything in it that can be harmed..

The injector story is definitely true.. you'd have to go from 550 injectors to 680-700cc injectors (approx) and you'd need a retune for the ignition maps..

Remember, the fuel pricing is not the whole story, many of us want to use non-petroleum dependent alternatives, LPG and 87 are still petroleum based.. I'm more interested in trying to use as much renewable resource produced domestically as possible.

zyounker

iTrader: (1)

Yeah you are right it is 30%.. I knew it was something around there but hadnt researched it in a few years..

I understand the point about renewable resource, but from research ive done on the subject ethonal requires normal energy from coal plants to be produced, so it effectivly is no better. It just shifts the burden somewhere else. I think biodiesel is a good option, but not for us evo drivers.

The best option i have seen for *cost* savings is LP Injection. But that doesnt meet what you are trying to do.


-Zach

RFH

zyounker is right about the misinfo
however hes is wrong about the energy difference as it is about 27% to exact(depending on source of LHV values) and you will need to make sure the flowrate of your fuel pump is adequate for the extra fuel needed.
also in addition to the extra octane of E85 and the extra boost/compression you can run, the extra O2 in the fuel will allow more fuel to be burn also increasing power and combustion effiency.

andrew20195

That article says they will run a 90% methanol/10% ethanol mixture next year, then move to 100% ethanol in 2007.

I wasn't questioning whether or not ethanol is a high performance fuel, I was questioning whether E95 is viable for a street based gasoline engine, as opposed to E85.

machron1

iTrader: (1)

Not to mention all the fuel you would probably save when you don't have to squirt extra in just to cool the intake charge to keep it from detonating.

speedshark

Blah blah blah...the point I was trying to make:

Ethanol = more power

ss

RFH

e95 is NOT practical because its
1 not redially available
2 cold starting would suck
3 may not be EPA certified

machron1 is right you may be able to lean out WOT for some better fuel economy on E85

speedshark

E95 IS practical for me because:
1. I have access to E95
2. I live in texas, so cold starts aren't an issue. besides, they run e95 in airplanes which have to start in extremely cold temperatures. no problems there.
3. May not be EPA certified? Huh? Did I miss something, we're still talking about E-T-H-A-N-O-L right? the RENEWABLE energy source? the only reason it wouldn't be legal is if it didn't contain at least 5% non-potable substance (i.e., gasoline), which is why the highest legal ratio is 95% ethanol, 5% gasoline. Besides, if it were illegal, then why do planes run on it?

The main reason I want E95 is for racing my evo. Since I have access to E95 and I have access to people who run it, why shouldn't I? What I don't have is access to any prior knowledge of people doing this on an Evo.

ss

RFH

if you have access thats cool, run it,i would
just get bigger injectors, fuel pump and do a new map ,its easy tp use.
all fuels have to be tested and recogonized by the EPA ( it has nothing to do with being clean and RENEWABLE any fuel has to go through it)and im not sure if E95 is or isnt (it may be , i need to checK)
last time i checked you started an airplane on the ground where its warm...(j/k)

speedshark

Anyway...I'm going to try running E95 as soon as Shiv gets a map for the SMART XEDE. 20% more horsepower, just by switching fuels! That'll definitely put me over 400whp I can't wait!

ss

RFH

cool,
post dyno charts and any problems,etc when you get it done

one more question, how much is E95 down there?

zyounker

iTrader: (1)

Now the question is.. How are you going to tune E85? I guess you could tune it on 91 octane and mathematically add 27% to your maps accross the board.. Then use an EGT guage & knock to fine tune..

Basically the AF ratio is not something a standard wideband is going to read.


Also, i don't see why everyone is saying that E95 makes more power, when you inject more fuel there is less room for air.. That means LESS power.. The only way to get the power back is to up the boost or timming for the extra octane.. But Octane for Octane, the fuel with the higher BTU is going to make more power.

-Zach

RFH

not true as E85 is 33 % 02 by weight, so the extra air is in the fuel, also as E85 evaporates it cools, meaning denser air entering the combustion chamber.

the fuel with the most o2 and heat of evaporation will make the most power.

to map for E85 you start by adding 27% to the entire map. then with a wide band then tune fuel by A/F (different than gas with stoich at 9.96)
then once A/f is correct for max hp, egt limit, etc
then tune spark for MBT , presto E85 map.

speedshark

So I guess the process is the same for E95 right? Except the percentage difference?

ss