Why no Intake????
Sep 10, 2003, 09:35 AM
#16
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No, I had the filter before I had the reflash and it lost power. After the reflash it stayed the same.....Open after putting the stock airbox do I feel like I gained my ponies back.
Sep 10, 2003, 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by Noize
Please don't take it as Gospel. My post above sums up why I'm not putting an intake on my Evo, but there are always exceptions and variations. IMO, if you are using fuel management that is mapped for the stock airbox, you should use the stock airbox. FWIW, I feel the same way about BOVs that vent to the atmosphere.
Please don't take it as Gospel. My post above sums up why I'm not putting an intake on my Evo, but there are always exceptions and variations. IMO, if you are using fuel management that is mapped for the stock airbox, you should use the stock airbox. FWIW, I feel the same way about BOVs that vent to the atmosphere.
Also, I plan on getting the RRM ECU swapt out and they tell me that this thing will "learn" and adjust for each mod you throw on. This is similar to what I was told by RMR when I put on my short ram. They instructed me to let my engine run for about 10 min to let the MAF adjust to the new air flow. However this is totally the opposite of what you guys are saying. Who do I beleive?
Sep 10, 2003, 10:18 AM
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Not to mention I have changed it back and forth many times. Besides my butt dyno, I can see VISUALLY on the tach that the rev goes up much faster than the air filter. The car runs smoother too. And yes, I've resetted my ECU many times after installation too but still its the same because your ECU will adjust itself anyways....
Sep 10, 2003, 10:53 AM
#20
Originally posted by MrMeaner
Let me ask you this Noize. Is this mainly true for forced induction or will it act the same for NA? I know that when I put my RMR short ram on my car I did lose some power, but it was all low-end and top end was MUCH better. However when I threw my GReddy catback on I gained the low-end back and then some. I don't want to be a "because my daddy says so" guy, but... I asked my dad about it, (he's a old muscle car freak with a '67 goat and '72 el camino both pushing 500+ horsies) he told me you just have to balance and stagger your "breathing" mods depending on whether they come before or after detonation. I'm no tuning expert but I have found this to be true in my limited experience.
Also, I plan on getting the RRM ECU swapt out and they tell me that this thing will "learn" and adjust for each mod you throw on. This is similar to what I was told by RMR when I put on my short ram. They instructed me to let my engine run for about 10 min to let the MAF adjust to the new air flow. However this is totally the opposite of what you guys are saying. Who do I beleive?
Let me ask you this Noize. Is this mainly true for forced induction or will it act the same for NA? I know that when I put my RMR short ram on my car I did lose some power, but it was all low-end and top end was MUCH better. However when I threw my GReddy catback on I gained the low-end back and then some. I don't want to be a "because my daddy says so" guy, but... I asked my dad about it, (he's a old muscle car freak with a '67 goat and '72 el camino both pushing 500+ horsies) he told me you just have to balance and stagger your "breathing" mods depending on whether they come before or after detonation. I'm no tuning expert but I have found this to be true in my limited experience.
Also, I plan on getting the RRM ECU swapt out and they tell me that this thing will "learn" and adjust for each mod you throw on. This is similar to what I was told by RMR when I put on my short ram. They instructed me to let my engine run for about 10 min to let the MAF adjust to the new air flow. However this is totally the opposite of what you guys are saying. Who do I beleive?
Judging by what I see under your name, you have an NA Lancer. In my experiences, CAIs especially seem to help NA cars. If you want an extreme modern example, look no further than the gigantic cheap gains seen on the 4th gen F bodies (z28s and Trans Ams) by purchasing a Lid. Of course, we're talking on a much smaller scale here, but you get the drift.
More correlating to what you're referring to, I used to mess with Hondas a lot on our local dyno, then go verify it on the dragstrip. In my testing, WAIs usually didn't seem to help that much in hotter weather. You have to realize that every car is made completely different. Some cars (like aforementioned RSX-S) have a horribly restrictive intake. A cold air intake on that NA car made 14whp and improved the ET by 3 tenths and 3mph on the same day!! This is in part because the engine's operation is quite loud, and freeing up power means new screaming sounds from under the hood, but there is a good chance that car guys like you and I like that stuff anyway. My advice to you is to take the car to the track, let it cool off, run with the factory airbox, then pull it, let the car cool again, and run with the WAI. 60 foots might vary, because its hard to perfectly duplicate a launch, but watch those mph! What your father has told you makes a lot of sense. Its just seems that cars are more restricted on the exhaust side from the factory than the intake side.
I'm not a big drag racing guy, but I think it is an excellent way to test and quantify modifications. We used an old 248C dyno here locally often, but when I got the WRX and later the Evo, I lost that ability, because its a 2wd system.
Back to your question, my advice is to test out everything yourself. The main attraction I have to using Vishnu products is that they do just this. From what I can tell, Shiv and company road race and push their cars to the extreme limits. Since I daily drive my car, autox it, drag race it (not yet on this one- clutch has me spooked), and road race it a little, I definitely want someone who also drives hard to creating baseline maps for my car!
I hope something in here was helpful to you.
Seth
Sep 10, 2003, 10:59 AM
#21
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I understand why vishnu does not use an after market air filter. They have tried and it sends false or bad signals to the ECU, that they have just reflashed. But then you have Bushur who runs a 12.4 at 111 with simple bolt ons including an airfilter. You cant tell me they dont know what there doing with the air filter. Or are you saying that they would run an even bettre time with the stock air box.....like maybe a 12.1 at 113 
. I really wish I could find out the truth behind all of this 
Sep 10, 2003, 11:04 AM
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I agree on the point of taking this out of control on the Vishnu board.....maybe we should have it moved to the General forum or the Tech forum......
Sep 10, 2003, 11:04 AM
#23
Ok. Its really pretty simple. An open filter and intake tube will flow more BUT they might make the maf read the signals wrong because of the scavenging air causing a rich condition. This is easily corrected with an SAFC, XEDE, etc. You will gain power once you lean your a/f ratio out to where it should be. Overall, an open air filter will make more power but it must be tuned.
Sep 10, 2003, 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by broeli
Ok. Its really pretty simple. An open filter and intake tube will flow more BUT they might make the maf read the signals wrong because of the scavenging air causing a rich condition. This is easily corrected with an SAFC, XEDE, etc. You will gain power once you lean your a/f ratio out to where it should be. Overall, an open air filter will make more power but it must be tuned.
Ok. Its really pretty simple. An open filter and intake tube will flow more BUT they might make the maf read the signals wrong because of the scavenging air causing a rich condition. This is easily corrected with an SAFC, XEDE, etc. You will gain power once you lean your a/f ratio out to where it should be. Overall, an open air filter will make more power but it must be tuned.
Sep 10, 2003, 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Noize
Back to your question, my advice is to test out everything yourself. The main attraction I have to using Vishnu products is that they do just this. From what I can tell, Shiv and company road race and push their cars to the extreme limits. Since I daily drive my car, autox it, drag race it (not yet on this one- clutch has me spooked), and road race it a little, I definitely want someone who also drives hard to creating baseline maps for my car!
I hope something in here was helpful to you.
Seth
Back to your question, my advice is to test out everything yourself. The main attraction I have to using Vishnu products is that they do just this. From what I can tell, Shiv and company road race and push their cars to the extreme limits. Since I daily drive my car, autox it, drag race it (not yet on this one- clutch has me spooked), and road race it a little, I definitely want someone who also drives hard to creating baseline maps for my car!
I hope something in here was helpful to you.
Seth
Thanks Seth.
Richard.
Sep 25, 2003, 12:13 PM
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FYI. Shiv isn't the only tuner that doesn't recommend an open intake. Dan from Pruven Performance doesn't recommend them either. He said on the dyno they look good because the hood is open and a fan is blowing cool air on them, but in the real world all they are doing is pulling in hot underhood air. He will tune the car with whatever you have on it or want to put on it, but he doesn't recommend them.
Sep 25, 2003, 02:29 PM
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What did Mitsubishi to to change the MAF sensor in the EVO that all the sudden an intake screws up it's metering ability? It's still a Karmann-vortex right? Still got honeycombs in it? I fail to see why an intake would have any effect on the metering ability of the car, unless you hacked up the MAF somehow while you were at it. I felt a huge increase from just an intake on my Eclipse, wasn't even a cold air intake. Stock ecu took it just fine, too.
Sep 25, 2003, 02:36 PM
#28
Shiv had a HARD time tuning my car with the Ralliart air filter. He couldnt even get the extra 5-10hp people say they put out. I was lucky to get up to what other EVO's were getting tuned at. Needless to say now I am running a base Vishnu map (Stage 0 + downpipe) and stock air filter. Car runs excellent and is seeing 21 degrees timing advance at redline. I was only seeing 18 degrees with the Ralliart air filter.
Sep 26, 2003, 03:41 PM
#30
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Let's be honest shiv knows his **** when it comes to the computers. Who knows more? A piggy back POS that does nothing FCON, SFAC, SASS, BASS, BULL, what did I miss? The only thing right now in the running is the AEM computer. Again the computer is the MAIN thing to me because it runs the car and controls everything else. So far Vishnu is the ONLY computer that does everything.