Why no Intake????
Oct 25, 2003, 10:26 PM
#61
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Let me clear things a little. Recently, I went to the dealership and popped open an evo hood. There it was. The MAF # is 609, the same as a 2g DSM and a 3000GT VR4.
As for the intake issue, my only explaination is not bothering to tune for every intake, variables in the equation. Use stock intake, there is only 1 variable and much easier to tune and more cost effective.
Remember, what's the job of stock intake, whether it's from a Big 3 company to imports or from NA to forced induction? It's there to baffle noise, restrict top end airflow, and to a certain aspect bring the level of performance to factory toleralances.
Please don't tell me somehow Mitsu has sideskirted this rule for the Evo.
Example: Drive a crewcab (still grossly overweight for its 350 engine), mash the throttle to WOT. See how pultry slow and wasting tons of gas going no where.
Put a k&n filter (typoon system), it goes a bit faster and more toleralable on the top end. Not have the slow feeling running through the ocean current caressing the beach.
As for the intake issue, my only explaination is not bothering to tune for every intake, variables in the equation. Use stock intake, there is only 1 variable and much easier to tune and more cost effective.
Remember, what's the job of stock intake, whether it's from a Big 3 company to imports or from NA to forced induction? It's there to baffle noise, restrict top end airflow, and to a certain aspect bring the level of performance to factory toleralances.
Please don't tell me somehow Mitsu has sideskirted this rule for the Evo.
Example: Drive a crewcab (still grossly overweight for its 350 engine), mash the throttle to WOT. See how pultry slow and wasting tons of gas going no where.
Put a k&n filter (typoon system), it goes a bit faster and more toleralable on the top end. Not have the slow feeling running through the ocean current caressing the beach.
Last edited by bahamut; Oct 25, 2003 at 10:29 PM.
Oct 27, 2003, 06:54 AM
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Originally posted by SAEVO
So Shiv, are you saying that the next time that you are here in Texas. I can buy the XEDE from you and you can dyno tune it for me. I have the BR 3" turbo back, I/C pipe with 1G BOV, MAF pipe, Cone air filter, SAFCII, MBC, and boost guage. I would have to get rid of the SAFC and MBC to run the XEDE right?? I would also put in some HKS 264's. Could you tune this setup, and make it a smooth powerful daily driver?????
So Shiv, are you saying that the next time that you are here in Texas. I can buy the XEDE from you and you can dyno tune it for me. I have the BR 3" turbo back, I/C pipe with 1G BOV, MAF pipe, Cone air filter, SAFCII, MBC, and boost guage. I would have to get rid of the SAFC and MBC to run the XEDE right?? I would also put in some HKS 264's. Could you tune this setup, and make it a smooth powerful daily driver?????
Oct 27, 2003, 09:05 AM
#63
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Originally posted by SAEVO
Hello Shiv, I must have posted this at the wrong time or maybe it got overlooked. What I am asking here is can you tune my car with 3" turbo back, I/C pipe upgrade, MAF pipe, BR filter, and HKS 264's. Of coures I will also have the XEDE at the time of the dyno tune. Thanks in advance and I cant wait to get you back to Texas. I hope this setup will work. I may even add a larger FMIC.
Hello Shiv, I must have posted this at the wrong time or maybe it got overlooked. What I am asking here is can you tune my car with 3" turbo back, I/C pipe upgrade, MAF pipe, BR filter, and HKS 264's. Of coures I will also have the XEDE at the time of the dyno tune. Thanks in advance and I cant wait to get you back to Texas. I hope this setup will work. I may even add a larger FMIC.
Cheers,
Shiv
Oct 27, 2003, 02:06 PM
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I am very skeptical about whether or not to use an open filter element. For years the common set up on virtually any upgraded set up was to swithc to an open intake. If you lift open the hood of any high performance car in Japan and 90 percent of the time you will see and open air intake. Also if you look at companies like Buschur Racing and Ultimate racing, they are running open filters and they are already in the 11's. Don't get me wrong, I like Vishnu's staged upgrades and they are much more convenient. Just plug in the XEDE, and leave the tuning to the professionals at Vishnu. But you actually have to go up 2 or 3 to get into the 12's. I also look at the expected times you get out of each stage. Stages zero and one only net quarters of about 13.3-13.7 which are basically times you can achieve in a stock Evo. Stage zero should at least get you into the 12's. The Dynoflashes from Pruven and Works can get 12's. A couple of tenths of a second in the quarter isn't enough to justify 600-700 dollars, or even 1700 if you include the cat back.
Oct 27, 2003, 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by inariv5573
I am very skeptical about whether or not to use an open filter element. For years the common set up on virtually any upgraded set up was to swithc to an open intake. If you lift open the hood of any high performance car in Japan and 90 percent of the time you will see and open air intake. Also if you look at companies like Buschur Racing and Ultimate racing, they are running open filters and they are already in the 11's. Don't get me wrong, I like Vishnu's staged upgrades and they are much more convenient. Just plug in the XEDE, and leave the tuning to the professionals at Vishnu. But you actually have to go up 2 or 3 to get into the 12's. I also look at the expected times you get out of each stage. Stages zero and one only net quarters of about 13.3-13.7 which are basically times you can achieve in a stock Evo. Stage zero should at least get you into the 12's. The Dynoflashes from Pruven and Works can get 12's. A couple of tenths of a second in the quarter isn't enough to justify 600-700 dollars, or even 1700 if you include the cat back.
I am very skeptical about whether or not to use an open filter element. For years the common set up on virtually any upgraded set up was to swithc to an open intake. If you lift open the hood of any high performance car in Japan and 90 percent of the time you will see and open air intake. Also if you look at companies like Buschur Racing and Ultimate racing, they are running open filters and they are already in the 11's. Don't get me wrong, I like Vishnu's staged upgrades and they are much more convenient. Just plug in the XEDE, and leave the tuning to the professionals at Vishnu. But you actually have to go up 2 or 3 to get into the 12's. I also look at the expected times you get out of each stage. Stages zero and one only net quarters of about 13.3-13.7 which are basically times you can achieve in a stock Evo. Stage zero should at least get you into the 12's. The Dynoflashes from Pruven and Works can get 12's. A couple of tenths of a second in the quarter isn't enough to justify 600-700 dollars, or even 1700 if you include the cat back.
shiv
PS. Those times on the website are going to be revised because they represent performance from several months ago before we had control of knock adjust and boost control features.
Oct 28, 2003, 02:34 AM
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Strange... for my BMW... I could throw a homemade intake
at it and it will make more hp....
I guess the question is that... whats wrong with EVO's MAF that
it cannot meter the air correctly with an open air cone filter??..
How about stock airbox with K&N filter??
Maybe b/c how close MAF sensor is to the filter??... I know that
BMW's air sensor requires a certain length of tubing from filter
to the sensor.... but I guess there's no room under the hood to
try this....
at it and it will make more hp....
I guess the question is that... whats wrong with EVO's MAF that
it cannot meter the air correctly with an open air cone filter??..
How about stock airbox with K&N filter??
Maybe b/c how close MAF sensor is to the filter??... I know that
BMW's air sensor requires a certain length of tubing from filter
to the sensor.... but I guess there's no room under the hood to
try this....
Sep 6, 2005, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by rabinabo
Why does it seem like DSM guys are being overly skeptical about shiv's approach? There's at least one or two other threads like that. If it's his opinion that intakes don't do much for evo's, then that's his opinion. It's not like there's a shortage of intakes around. Hell, you can even buy an intake and a xede and tune it yourself if you'd like.
IMO all the evo intakes that I've seen are insanely overpriced anyways (especially since they're all about $300 for just a very short metal tubes). Personally, I don't think they're worth it because it seems to me that the evo gets enough air with the stock intake.
IMO all the evo intakes that I've seen are insanely overpriced anyways (especially since they're all about $300 for just a very short metal tubes). Personally, I don't think they're worth it because it seems to me that the evo gets enough air with the stock intake.
As a DSM owner, DSM factory intakes (especially 2G) are super restrictive. The airbox sucks in air from the passenger fender thru a less than 2" opening. I think the airflow gains with an open intake far outweigh any MAF reading fluctuactions that are induced by an open intake. Plus most DSM'ers upgrade their turbos making airflow even more important. I like other DSM owners see only HP increases (up to 10 or more) with open intakes.
Now compare that to the Evo (I'm also an Evo owner). There is no comparison. The Evo factory airbox has a wide open snorkel with little to no restrictions. IMHO MAF reading issues now outweigh any minor airflow gains (at least on the stock turbo). Hence the issues that tuners like Shiv have with open intakes.
Sep 6, 2005, 12:58 PM
#73
Originally Posted by shadow1
Old thread but...
As a DSM owner, DSM factory intakes (especially 2G) are super restrictive. The airbox sucks in air from the passenger fender thru a less than 2" opening. I think the airflow gains with an open intake far outweigh any MAF reading fluctuactions that are induced by an open intake. Plus most DSM'ers upgrade their turbos making airflow even more important. I like other DSM owners see only HP increases (up to 10 or more) with open intakes.
Now compare that to the Evo (I'm also an Evo owner). There is no comparison. The Evo factory airbox has a wide open snorkel with little to no restrictions. IMHO MAF reading issues now outweigh any minor airflow gains (at least on the stock turbo). Hence the issues that tuners like Shiv have with open intakes.
As a DSM owner, DSM factory intakes (especially 2G) are super restrictive. The airbox sucks in air from the passenger fender thru a less than 2" opening. I think the airflow gains with an open intake far outweigh any MAF reading fluctuactions that are induced by an open intake. Plus most DSM'ers upgrade their turbos making airflow even more important. I like other DSM owners see only HP increases (up to 10 or more) with open intakes.
Now compare that to the Evo (I'm also an Evo owner). There is no comparison. The Evo factory airbox has a wide open snorkel with little to no restrictions. IMHO MAF reading issues now outweigh any minor airflow gains (at least on the stock turbo). Hence the issues that tuners like Shiv have with open intakes.
On the Evo, I just tossed in a panel filter and left the piping alone. In both instances, I was quite successful...
Sep 6, 2005, 01:10 PM
#74
This has always been a favorite issue of mine.
Check out the FQ 400 stock air box 0-60 3.5
as well as many others.
Driving around town I have measure 20 - 30 degree lower temps at the MAF with a crude but accurate and effective sensor. Lower tempd in the air box always equsl increased power on my dyno device. It may not give the same exact numbers as the dyno, but the gains/losses still show up.
The Stock box must have a flow rate spec'd somewhere, I have heard it 350 and as high as 400. Someone must know.
I have even considered cutting out the raised channel in the middle to increase airflow, but decided that it might have been designed it lower turbulence or direct the air flow better inside the box. I'm shielding mine even more to try and lower the inside temps more.
Check out the FQ 400 stock air box 0-60 3.5
as well as many others.
Driving around town I have measure 20 - 30 degree lower temps at the MAF with a crude but accurate and effective sensor. Lower tempd in the air box always equsl increased power on my dyno device. It may not give the same exact numbers as the dyno, but the gains/losses still show up.
The Stock box must have a flow rate spec'd somewhere, I have heard it 350 and as high as 400. Someone must know.
I have even considered cutting out the raised channel in the middle to increase airflow, but decided that it might have been designed it lower turbulence or direct the air flow better inside the box. I'm shielding mine even more to try and lower the inside temps more.
Sep 6, 2005, 02:35 PM
#75
Whoever bumped this thread should've started a new one. Its been two friggin years. Half the people at the start of the post either no longer have an Evo or are dead or something.
That said, a VS3 Evo ran 11.2x@123 with the stock airbox and filter.
That said, a VS3 Evo ran 11.2x@123 with the stock airbox and filter.
Last edited by Noize; Sep 6, 2005 at 02:42 PM.