Shurflo pumps of major WAI kit manufacturer
Apr 4, 2007 | 12:57 PM
#31
David,
I am just a bit puzzled by your claim, I will explained.
The mass of the 150W is 5.9lbs and the 60W pump is 4.6lbs.
According to my calculation, it weighs 28% heavier.
The 150W pump is 150% more powerful than the 60W pump.
Force = mass x acceleration. If this formula is right, the 150W pump should accelerate 122% (150%-28%) faster than the 60W pump.
Inertia of rotating mass= mass x R^2 (both motor has the same diameter) so Mass is the determine factor of the reaction speed.
Can someone chime in and verify this?
PS David, I am not trying to nick pick - I cannot let unproven statement go
unchallenged, nothing personal.
Last edited by Richard L; Apr 29, 2007 at 05:13 PM.
Apr 4, 2007 | 01:08 PM
#32
Originally Posted by Richard L
PS David, I am not trying to nick pick - I cannot let unproven statement go
unchallenged, nothing personal.
unchallenged, nothing personal.
Isnt that what this is:
David,
I am just a bit puzzled by your claim, I will explained.
The mass of the 150W is 5.9lbs and the 60W pump is 4.6lbs.
According to my calculation, it weighs 28% heavier.
The 150W pump is 150% more powerful than the 60W pump.
Force = mass x acceleration. If this formula is right, the 150W pump should accelerate 122% (150%-28%) faster than the 60W pump.
Inertia of rotating mass= mass x R^2 (both motor has the same diameter) so Mass is the determine factor of the reaction speed.
I am just a bit puzzled by your claim, I will explained.
The mass of the 150W is 5.9lbs and the 60W pump is 4.6lbs.
According to my calculation, it weighs 28% heavier.
The 150W pump is 150% more powerful than the 60W pump.
Force = mass x acceleration. If this formula is right, the 150W pump should accelerate 122% (150%-28%) faster than the 60W pump.
Inertia of rotating mass= mass x R^2 (both motor has the same diameter) so Mass is the determine factor of the reaction speed.
Originally Posted by richard l
Can someone chime in and verify this?
I for one would be eternally greatful for that.
Last edited by coolingmist; Apr 4, 2007 at 01:27 PM.
Apr 4, 2007 | 02:22 PM
#34
Apr 4, 2007 | 03:43 PM
#39
If anyone would ever test a 150 W pump and a 60W pump side by side under high pressure for an extended period of time you would see in a methanol/water injection application the larger pump has absolutely zero advantage. Its over kill. You can run the 60 W pump at full dutycyle for 30 minutes straight and the cover will just begin to get warm. Some commented earlier that the 150 W pump is more quiet, I have tested both side by side and in my tests the 60W pump is alot more quiet, however neither pump is loud.
We chose the 60 W pump because in a progressive application will have a better response time than the the 100 or 150 W pump. We have every shurflo pump at our shop and have tested all of them.
The only way the 150 W pump would make more sense is if the pumps were running continously.
Perhaps those that have commented about how hot the 60W pump runs vs the 150 should produce data to back it up and then show how that will make a difference in an application such as methanol injection that has such low usage.
We chose the 60 W pump because in a progressive application will have a better response time than the the 100 or 150 W pump. We have every shurflo pump at our shop and have tested all of them.
The only way the 150 W pump would make more sense is if the pumps were running continously.
Perhaps those that have commented about how hot the 60W pump runs vs the 150 should produce data to back it up and then show how that will make a difference in an application such as methanol injection that has such low usage.
Apr 4, 2007 | 05:30 PM
#41
David,
I am just a bit puzzled by your claim, I will explained.
The mass of the 150W is 5.9lbs and the 60W pump is 4.6lbs.
According to my calculation, it weighs 28% heavier.
The 150W pump is 150% more powerful than the 60W pump.
Force = mass x acceleration. If this formula is right, the 150W pump should accelerate 122% (150%-28%) faster than the 60W pump.
Inertia of rotating mass= mass x R^2 (both motor has the same diameter) so Mass is the determine factor of the reaction speed.
Can someone chime in and verify this?
PS David, I am not trying to nick pick - I cannot let unproven statement go
unchallenged, nothing personal.
I am just a bit puzzled by your claim, I will explained.
The mass of the 150W is 5.9lbs and the 60W pump is 4.6lbs.
According to my calculation, it weighs 28% heavier.
The 150W pump is 150% more powerful than the 60W pump.
Force = mass x acceleration. If this formula is right, the 150W pump should accelerate 122% (150%-28%) faster than the 60W pump.
Inertia of rotating mass= mass x R^2 (both motor has the same diameter) so Mass is the determine factor of the reaction speed.
Can someone chime in and verify this?
PS David, I am not trying to nick pick - I cannot let unproven statement go
unchallenged, nothing personal.
Acceler. (60 W motor, weighing 4.6#) = 2655 ft lbs / min / 4.6 = 577 ft / min (which is really velocity so I must have forgotten something in 20+ years)
Acceler. (150W motor weighing 5.9#) = 6638 / 5.9 = 1125
I think the 150W motor should be able to accelerate and decelerate much quicker than than 60W motor, but there could be other issues such as resistance that impact the motors ability to respond....I still feel the unanswered question is :
What is the optimal PSI for atomization of water / meth / alk ? Then based upon this answer it should be clear which motor is optimal (IMHO).
Apr 5, 2007 | 06:58 AM
#42
Richard -- Your formulas are correct, but your base assumption is wrong....Watts are power, not Force....You need to convert the power of both pumps to Force and then determine the acceleration of the piston...150W is ~6638 ft lbs / min....60W is ~2655 ft lbs / min.....
Acceler. (60 W motor, weighing 4.6#) = 2655 ft lbs / min / 4.6 = 577 ft / min (which is really velocity so I must have forgotten something in 20+ years)
Acceler. (150W motor weighing 5.9#) = 6638 / 5.9 = 1125
I think the 150W motor should be able to accelerate and decelerate much quicker than than 60W motor, but there could be other issues such as resistance that impact the motors ability to respond....I still feel the unanswered question is :
What is the optimal PSI for atomization of water / meth / alk ? Then based upon this answer it should be clear which motor is optimal (IMHO).
Acceler. (60 W motor, weighing 4.6#) = 2655 ft lbs / min / 4.6 = 577 ft / min (which is really velocity so I must have forgotten something in 20+ years)
Acceler. (150W motor weighing 5.9#) = 6638 / 5.9 = 1125
I think the 150W motor should be able to accelerate and decelerate much quicker than than 60W motor, but there could be other issues such as resistance that impact the motors ability to respond....I still feel the unanswered question is :
What is the optimal PSI for atomization of water / meth / alk ? Then based upon this answer it should be clear which motor is optimal (IMHO).
Apr 5, 2007 | 07:48 AM
#43
Richard -- Your formulas are correct, but your base assumption is wrong....Watts are power, not Force....You need to convert the power of both pumps to Force and then determine the acceleration of the piston...150W is ~6638 ft lbs / min....60W is ~2655 ft lbs / min.....
Acceler. (60 W motor, weighing 4.6#) = 2655 ft lbs / min / 4.6 = 577 ft / min (which is really velocity so I must have forgotten something in 20+ years)
Acceler. (150W motor weighing 5.9#) = 6638 / 5.9 = 1125
I think the 150W motor should be able to accelerate and decelerate much quicker than than 60W motor, but there could be other issues such as resistance that impact the motors ability to respond....I still feel the unanswered question is :
What is the optimal PSI for atomization of water / meth / alk ? Then based upon this answer it should be clear which motor is optimal (IMHO).
Acceler. (60 W motor, weighing 4.6#) = 2655 ft lbs / min / 4.6 = 577 ft / min (which is really velocity so I must have forgotten something in 20+ years)
Acceler. (150W motor weighing 5.9#) = 6638 / 5.9 = 1125
I think the 150W motor should be able to accelerate and decelerate much quicker than than 60W motor, but there could be other issues such as resistance that impact the motors ability to respond....I still feel the unanswered question is :
What is the optimal PSI for atomization of water / meth / alk ? Then based upon this answer it should be clear which motor is optimal (IMHO).
Apr 5, 2007 | 08:35 AM
#44
Your formulas are off because the weights quoted should not be used in the equations. You would need the weight of the rotor assemblies . Thats the part that gets spun in an electric motor. But this whole arguement is pointless anyway. As I already stated the size of the motor on the pump has nothing to do with the reliabilty of these pumps. The power the motor has is not relevant , nor is the reaction speed of it. If the pumps were being used like fuel injectors then we would have something to argue about. But they way the current systems are designed the size of the electric motor is irrelevant. All the pump sizes offer sufficient pressure to atomize the water.
+ 1 to that...
Apr 5, 2007 | 09:21 AM
#45
The subject becomes relevent if we decide to use the 150W pump for a "pump-speed" system. This topic will be discussed again when this happens - there are a few more systems we are bring out very soon - without the HSV.