AFR issue with AEM kit
Jul 18, 2011, 05:26 AM
#31
Evolving Member
well you have a point..but you don't have a flow meter to check on it while the injector is in there. it is much easier if you have one to be honest..also the reason why we're to investigate it through AFR change is to know if it will change with 100% meth..because as you've said you already tested and checked everything out without leaks..i thought you had the meth handy like right beside, but if you still need to buy it don't bother..i'd rather start investing that with a dds3 v10. the only thing that i could think of, is a faulty injector when the injector is under boost..not 100% on that though..good luck man..hope AEM chimes in here for you..
Jul 19, 2011, 10:58 AM
#32
So a little off topic, have you looked at this
http://www.aemelectronics.com/gauges...on-monitor-56/
I just saw it yesterday. I was thinking about this. I have an OG AEM Meth kit, but since I have been running on E85 I have not been using it. However with that gauge thing it looks like a pretty legit setup.
Outside of that is there anyway for you to test the unit while not on the car. Like if it is in you UICP take that off, and apply pressure to the contorller box and make sure that it is turning on. I think you can get a hand pump at Home Depot to test with.
http://www.aemelectronics.com/gauges...on-monitor-56/
I just saw it yesterday. I was thinking about this. I have an OG AEM Meth kit, but since I have been running on E85 I have not been using it. However with that gauge thing it looks like a pretty legit setup.
Outside of that is there anyway for you to test the unit while not on the car. Like if it is in you UICP take that off, and apply pressure to the contorller box and make sure that it is turning on. I think you can get a hand pump at Home Depot to test with.
Jul 19, 2011, 12:22 PM
#33
Evolving Member
So a little off topic, have you looked at this
http://www.aemelectronics.com/gauges...on-monitor-56/
I just saw it yesterday. I was thinking about this. I have an OG AEM Meth kit, but since I have been running on E85 I have not been using it. However with that gauge thing it looks like a pretty legit setup.
Outside of that is there anyway for you to test the unit while not on the car. Like if it is in you UICP take that off, and apply pressure to the contorller box and make sure that it is turning on. I think you can get a hand pump at Home Depot to test with.
http://www.aemelectronics.com/gauges...on-monitor-56/
I just saw it yesterday. I was thinking about this. I have an OG AEM Meth kit, but since I have been running on E85 I have not been using it. However with that gauge thing it looks like a pretty legit setup.
Outside of that is there anyway for you to test the unit while not on the car. Like if it is in you UICP take that off, and apply pressure to the contorller box and make sure that it is turning on. I think you can get a hand pump at Home Depot to test with.
Jul 19, 2011, 03:17 PM
#36
Evolving Member
So... Today I've done some more testing and got some interesting results...
I used a simple 0,5l bottle as a meth tank, drilled a cap with a 5,5mm bit, took a piece of meth line and stuck it into the bottle through the cap. And finaly got some new results. The point of using a small tank or a bottle was to make it easier to measure the consumtion by the meth left in the "tank" after test-run. Consumtion was fine and seemed to be close to correct numbers. Pure meth changes my AFR from 11.5-11.7 to 10.2-10.4. 50/50 mix changes AFR from 11.5-11.7 to 10.8-10.9. I expected to see more drastic AFR change using 550cc nozzle on stock evo9 turbo (correct me if I'm wrong), but anyway the problem moved from a dead point. After all these tests I put the line back into the tank outlet fitting and the system still worked fine...
I've started tuning fuel an ignition maps. After a quick tune I finished at 12.2-11.8 AFR after spool up and about +10* to my pump gas map in 230-290 load cells without any knock at all. It would take +3-4* more, but I started to experience occasional 1-3 knock counts here and there so decided to stop bumping the timing up for today. After that I started smoothing the timing and fuel tables and was going to drive the car a couple of days just to see how it goes...
But after 2 more runs the car started to knock horribly, up to 25 knocks sometimes, starting from the middle of spool-up, right where the pump should work at 50-70% of its duty. I loaded old pump gas tune and made a test run with meth on as i did before... Led indicates that the pump is working on full power, but AFR is 11.7-11.5 - no AFR change, no meth flow at all! I was stunned and decided to work it out from the beginning. Again, I disconnected the line from the tank fitting, blocked it with a spare piece of line and a check valve, and used my "magic bottle" to feed the pump... And voila everything works again!
I was driving the car for half an hour trying to provoke this situation, and it happened randomly several times. I was really tired of changing meth tank to the bottle everytime and finaly found out that moving and turning the outlet fitting of the tank and the feeding line - also solves the problem for a while and resumes meth flow!
By this time I was really exhaused. Satisfied by the fact that system can work fine and by narrowing the field of search I left the car in the garage and went home.
Hopefully tomorrow I will be inspecting the tank outlet and pump inlet fittings.
I used a simple 0,5l bottle as a meth tank, drilled a cap with a 5,5mm bit, took a piece of meth line and stuck it into the bottle through the cap. And finaly got some new results. The point of using a small tank or a bottle was to make it easier to measure the consumtion by the meth left in the "tank" after test-run. Consumtion was fine and seemed to be close to correct numbers. Pure meth changes my AFR from 11.5-11.7 to 10.2-10.4. 50/50 mix changes AFR from 11.5-11.7 to 10.8-10.9. I expected to see more drastic AFR change using 550cc nozzle on stock evo9 turbo (correct me if I'm wrong), but anyway the problem moved from a dead point. After all these tests I put the line back into the tank outlet fitting and the system still worked fine...
I've started tuning fuel an ignition maps. After a quick tune I finished at 12.2-11.8 AFR after spool up and about +10* to my pump gas map in 230-290 load cells without any knock at all. It would take +3-4* more, but I started to experience occasional 1-3 knock counts here and there so decided to stop bumping the timing up for today. After that I started smoothing the timing and fuel tables and was going to drive the car a couple of days just to see how it goes...
But after 2 more runs the car started to knock horribly, up to 25 knocks sometimes, starting from the middle of spool-up, right where the pump should work at 50-70% of its duty. I loaded old pump gas tune and made a test run with meth on as i did before... Led indicates that the pump is working on full power, but AFR is 11.7-11.5 - no AFR change, no meth flow at all! I was stunned and decided to work it out from the beginning. Again, I disconnected the line from the tank fitting, blocked it with a spare piece of line and a check valve, and used my "magic bottle" to feed the pump... And voila everything works again!
I was driving the car for half an hour trying to provoke this situation, and it happened randomly several times. I was really tired of changing meth tank to the bottle everytime and finaly found out that moving and turning the outlet fitting of the tank and the feeding line - also solves the problem for a while and resumes meth flow!
By this time I was really exhaused. Satisfied by the fact that system can work fine and by narrowing the field of search I left the car in the garage and went home.
Hopefully tomorrow I will be inspecting the tank outlet and pump inlet fittings.
Last edited by Biggy VIII; Jul 19, 2011 at 03:23 PM.
Jul 24, 2011, 10:35 PM
#37
Evolving Member
...I disconnected the line from the tank fitting, blocked it with a spare piece of line and a check valve, and used my "magic bottle" to feed the pump... And voila everything works again!
I was driving the car for half an hour trying to provoke this situation, and it happened randomly several times. I was really tired of changing meth tank to the bottle everytime and finaly found out that moving and turning the outlet fitting of the tank and the feeding line - also solves the problem for a while and resumes meth flow!
By this time I was really exhaused. Satisfied by the fact that system can work fine and by narrowing the field of search I left the car in the garage and went home.
Hopefully tomorrow I will be inspecting the tank outlet and pump inlet fittings.
I checked the fitting and the line, everything looks good. The system works fine when feeded from the bottle, as I wrote before. As soon as I stick the line in to the tank outlet fitting, meth flow start hesitating after 1 run and then stop spraying at all.
Can it depend on the level of the tank relative to the pump? Anyway my tank outlet fitting is 5-10 mm higher than my pump inlet fitting.
Still need your help guys!
Jul 25, 2011, 07:03 AM
#38
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Can it depend on the level of the tank relative to the pump? Anyway my tank outlet fitting is 5-10 mm higher than my pump inlet fitting.
1. as far as i know, even with the tank not level or it is slightly lower than the pump, it should still pump meth in. (the only reason that i know it is recommended that the tank is higher is to avoid syphoning issues)
2. i think AEM has a 200psi pump. well regardless of how strong the pump is (whether 120-200psi), it should crack you check valve if it was spraying meth..
that's what i think though..i could be wrong..
Jul 25, 2011, 08:44 AM
#39
The pump should be able to pump the liquid unless there is a 2-3ft. difference. with the pump above the tank.
You need to double check your fittings for leaks. Also check the outlet fitting. Do you see any air bubbles in the lines after the runs when it leans out?
Where is the tank outlet located on the tank? Is it a rectangle laying down or standing up in shape, or a square? Any pics of the tank and setup?
It seems strange that the pump would be able to work from the .5l bottle but not from the tank.
I would empty your meth tank the best that you can safetly. Then diconnect the nozzles from the uicp and put them into a bucket to messure flow. Fill you tank up with water. Put paper towels around the connections and force the system to run until you have exhausted your tank or begin to witness the problem. You can have someone else competent watch it while you trigger or vice versa.
It is a pain in the *** but it should hopefully show something. I have had to do it before.
You need to double check your fittings for leaks. Also check the outlet fitting. Do you see any air bubbles in the lines after the runs when it leans out?
Where is the tank outlet located on the tank? Is it a rectangle laying down or standing up in shape, or a square? Any pics of the tank and setup?
It seems strange that the pump would be able to work from the .5l bottle but not from the tank.
I would empty your meth tank the best that you can safetly. Then diconnect the nozzles from the uicp and put them into a bucket to messure flow. Fill you tank up with water. Put paper towels around the connections and force the system to run until you have exhausted your tank or begin to witness the problem. You can have someone else competent watch it while you trigger or vice versa.
It is a pain in the *** but it should hopefully show something. I have had to do it before.
Jul 27, 2011, 06:37 AM
#40
Evolving Member
that shouldn't be the case..i mean it's a pump, it's supposed to pumped the meth out of that tank..i think you have a faulty pump..at least from my point of view..
1. as far as i know, even with the tank not level or it is slightly lower than the pump, it should still pump meth in. (the only reason that i know it is recommended that the tank is higher is to avoid syphoning issues)
2. i think AEM has a 200psi pump. well regardless of how strong the pump is (whether 120-200psi), it should crack you check valve if it was spraying meth..
that's what i think though..i could be wrong..
1. as far as i know, even with the tank not level or it is slightly lower than the pump, it should still pump meth in. (the only reason that i know it is recommended that the tank is higher is to avoid syphoning issues)
2. i think AEM has a 200psi pump. well regardless of how strong the pump is (whether 120-200psi), it should crack you check valve if it was spraying meth..
that's what i think though..i could be wrong..
- The pump works perfectly when feeding line is put in a bottle.
- The pump motor still works (you can hear it) but doesnt pump (the nozzle is not spraying meth) when feeding line is connected to the outlet fitting of the tank.
- Outlet fitting of the meth tank is not damaged and looks fine.
Jul 27, 2011, 06:46 AM
#41
Evolving Member
The pump should be able to pump the liquid unless there is a 2-3ft. difference. with the pump above the tank.
You need to double check your fittings for leaks. Also check the outlet fitting. Do you see any air bubbles in the lines after the runs when it leans out?
Where is the tank outlet located on the tank? Is it a rectangle laying down or standing up in shape, or a square? Any pics of the tank and setup?
It seems strange that the pump would be able to work from the .5l bottle but not from the tank.
I would empty your meth tank the best that you can safetly. Then diconnect the nozzles from the uicp and put them into a bucket to messure flow. Fill you tank up with water. Put paper towels around the connections and force the system to run until you have exhausted your tank or begin to witness the problem. You can have someone else competent watch it while you trigger or vice versa.
It is a pain in the *** but it should hopefully show something. I have had to do it before.
You need to double check your fittings for leaks. Also check the outlet fitting. Do you see any air bubbles in the lines after the runs when it leans out?
Where is the tank outlet located on the tank? Is it a rectangle laying down or standing up in shape, or a square? Any pics of the tank and setup?
It seems strange that the pump would be able to work from the .5l bottle but not from the tank.
I would empty your meth tank the best that you can safetly. Then diconnect the nozzles from the uicp and put them into a bucket to messure flow. Fill you tank up with water. Put paper towels around the connections and force the system to run until you have exhausted your tank or begin to witness the problem. You can have someone else competent watch it while you trigger or vice versa.
It is a pain in the *** but it should hopefully show something. I have had to do it before.
Tank outlet is located in the front wall of the tank. It is a 90 degree fitting, I turned it to the right, in direction of the pump. The tank has a built-in low level switch and an anti-slosh feature, so I would see a blinking led in case of low-level or flow-back, but nevertheless it was always full or 3\4full during the testing.
The system was checked on the bench several times. No visible leaks in pressurized part of the system. It never failed on the bench and always gave the same constant flow.
I wonder if it could happen this way, and the tank outlet fitting is not leaking with meth, but the pump is sucking air through it and almost no meth...
The system never failed while it was fed from a bottle. We tried it on the local track and it gave us constant -2 secons from almost 2 minute lap.
Last edited by Biggy VIII; Jul 27, 2011 at 07:58 AM.
Jul 27, 2011, 08:33 AM
#42
Having the tank postioned with the oulet and sensor toward the front of the vehicle can cause a temporary low flow due to sloshing around in the tank as I am sure you know. Being that you have baffles and a low flow sensor, not to mention that you were keeping the tank so full, it can't be from that.
Do you have an inline filter between the tank and pump or one inside the tank? I wonder if something could becoming clogged.
The amount of pressure that the system is under would prevent it from pulling in air bubbles except for right at the tank fitting and pump inlet. When I had a leak around the pump inlet/tank outlet it would leak constantly.
This is very strange...
I wish AEM would magically appear to answer some questions. I will call them today myself to attempt to bring attention to this. Outstanding customer service is one reason I choose Aquamist.
Do you have an inline filter between the tank and pump or one inside the tank? I wonder if something could becoming clogged.
The amount of pressure that the system is under would prevent it from pulling in air bubbles except for right at the tank fitting and pump inlet. When I had a leak around the pump inlet/tank outlet it would leak constantly.
This is very strange...
I wish AEM would magically appear to answer some questions. I will call them today myself to attempt to bring attention to this. Outstanding customer service is one reason I choose Aquamist.
Last edited by mt057; Jul 27, 2011 at 08:40 AM.
Jul 27, 2011, 09:32 AM
#43
Evolving Member
Having the tank postioned with the oulet and sensor toward the front of the vehicle can cause a temporary low flow due to sloshing around in the tank as I am sure you know. Being that you have baffles and a low flow sensor, not to mention that you were keeping the tank so full, it can't be from that.
Do you have an inline filter between the tank and pump or one inside the tank? I wonder if something could becoming clogged.
The amount of pressure that the system is under would prevent it from pulling in air bubbles except for right at the tank fitting and pump inlet. When I had a leak around the pump inlet/tank outlet it would leak constantly.
This is very strange...
I wish AEM would magically appear to answer some questions. I will call them today myself to attempt to bring attention to this. Outstanding customer service is one reason I choose Aquamist.
Do you have an inline filter between the tank and pump or one inside the tank? I wonder if something could becoming clogged.
The amount of pressure that the system is under would prevent it from pulling in air bubbles except for right at the tank fitting and pump inlet. When I had a leak around the pump inlet/tank outlet it would leak constantly.
This is very strange...
I wish AEM would magically appear to answer some questions. I will call them today myself to attempt to bring attention to this. Outstanding customer service is one reason I choose Aquamist.
I like Aquamist systems for its technological effectiveness, advanced adjustability etc.. But also like AEM system for its affordability. I could not see any serious HP or Tq gains from changing one system for another, in spite of all the differences that made the tuning process of Aquamist more accurate.
I wish AEM would magically appear too.. ) No input from them for 20 days...
Last edited by Biggy VIII; Jul 27, 2011 at 09:55 AM.