Product Announcement: Brain Flash P2
Oct 9, 2003, 02:46 PM
#121
Originally posted by mojo
That is what I have a problem with, not you, well that is until you stuck your nose in my business.
That is what I have a problem with, not you, well that is until you stuck your nose in my business.
Damn, forgot to post the full quote again.
Oct 9, 2003, 03:50 PM
#122
Yea....you can tell works is really responding to any of this. I am sure they have more than 1 person that can respond to their unhappy customers or unhappy potential customers.
Oct 9, 2003, 03:54 PM
#123
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WOW you have all gotten so frustrated over this, take a deep breath and go for a drive in your evo and tear into some turns and let out some steam you will feel alot better I did it for my lunch break it felt good.
Oct 9, 2003, 05:01 PM
#126
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Works will respond soon but they are busy; and with the big boss still on vacation, it's hard for them to make any comments right now.
Since Works is near where I live, I get some time to talk to them. These guys are great and they are not out to rip off Evo owners. The price of the P2 seem high for something that's not tangible but how do you price the R&D time and the cost involved for all the Dyno times. P2 is not some program where one person sits in front of his computer and punch in some magical numbers. If it was that simple, I be doing it for my car and open my own business. But it's not and it takes real world testing and dyno times with many people and engineers. Ever visit a Doctor lately? The cost for their time is $$$$. If you know what I mean.
Still, I'm with most of you and I hope David could come with something that will satisfy all of you.
Info on P2
-Runs richer than P1 which gives greater safety margin and room for adding intake, full exhaust, and few other things without compromising safety. P1 runs very safe as is and P2 just more.
-Does require installing new hose lines (30-60min install time). These hose lines must be installed with P2 and cannot be installed with P1 (not sure why).
Since Works is near where I live, I get some time to talk to them. These guys are great and they are not out to rip off Evo owners. The price of the P2 seem high for something that's not tangible but how do you price the R&D time and the cost involved for all the Dyno times. P2 is not some program where one person sits in front of his computer and punch in some magical numbers. If it was that simple, I be doing it for my car and open my own business. But it's not and it takes real world testing and dyno times with many people and engineers. Ever visit a Doctor lately? The cost for their time is $$$$. If you know what I mean.
Still, I'm with most of you and I hope David could come with something that will satisfy all of you.
Info on P2
-Runs richer than P1 which gives greater safety margin and room for adding intake, full exhaust, and few other things without compromising safety. P1 runs very safe as is and P2 just more.
-Does require installing new hose lines (30-60min install time). These hose lines must be installed with P2 and cannot be installed with P1 (not sure why).
Oct 9, 2003, 06:07 PM
#128
Of Course of course in a steaming pile of ironic fate the AFR probe took a crap 
Are you sure you dont work in a secret lab in the desert?? 
Are you sure you dont work in a secret lab in the desert??
Oct 9, 2003, 06:13 PM
#129
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Originally posted by MP5
Of Course of course in a steaming pile of ironic fate the AFR probe took a crap Are you sure you dont work in a secret lab in the desert??
Of Course of course in a steaming pile of ironic fate the AFR probe took a crap
Are you sure you dont work in a secret lab in the desert?? As you can tell I did have the a/f ratio tested and it was obviosly way off. If you look in the upper left part of the graph you can see the a/f reading is 18+!! WORKS doesn't even adjust fuel mapping at idle or the lower rpms. I gave it my best shot today and hoped to provide accurate a/f ratio numbers, but it just didn't happen. I am very happy with the numbers I got today and if there had been any odd looking lines or spikes then a/f ratio would be more of an issue.
Last edited by caymandiver75; Oct 9, 2003 at 06:26 PM.
Oct 9, 2003, 07:53 PM
#130
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Well I installed the P2 this afternoon 
Runs great pulls harder.
Not as big of a difference as the P1 over stock but it is definately a noticable power increase. Like i said before no 4wd dyno in my area so all I can give is my subjective impression.
Thanks Caymandiver for getting the P1 dyno vs P2 dyno comparison going. I don't understand why works doesn't post the 2 graphs overlayed.
I talked with Brett to make sure the install was correct as the directions I got were worthless. He said they had new directions that were being sent out now that were correct, mine weren't. I also let him know that I wasn't happy to hear that some new customers may be getting the P2 for less than original P1 customers. He said he wasn't authorized to give me the same discount but that he would look into it and let me know. Well back to install.
All you do is replace the stock hose that has the T in it with the new one that looks exactly the same. The new one does have a restrictor pill in it but it's in a different place than the stock one. It's a somewhat of a pain. In the directions they tell you to do it from underneath, the catch is if you don't have the ecu in you can't drive it up on ramps to get underneath which would have made it easier. I don't have a floor jack or stands at home. I would suggest leaving the car on ramps before sending the ecu in to WORKS. I did it from the top and there really isn't any room to get to the wastegate end of the hose. It's very hard to get it off and the fan shroud is literally razor sharp in places where your hands need to go. I left some blood on the car. If you do it from underneath it would be no problem as there is more room. Once you get it off installing the new hose is fairly easy compared to removing the old one. I took the Airbox off, then the upper radiator hose trying to get some more room, it didn't help much. Just had to cram my hands down there and work at it.
You don't need a dyno to tell there is a power increase. How much I don't know. We'll see when Caymandiver gets the dyno results. From the looks of the stock dyno vs P1 I would say WORKS has been conservative in their HP estimates. Hopefully they've done the same with the P2.
Runs great pulls harder.Not as big of a difference as the P1 over stock but it is definately a noticable power increase. Like i said before no 4wd dyno in my area so all I can give is my subjective impression.
Thanks Caymandiver for getting the P1 dyno vs P2 dyno comparison going. I don't understand why works doesn't post the 2 graphs overlayed.
I talked with Brett to make sure the install was correct as the directions I got were worthless. He said they had new directions that were being sent out now that were correct, mine weren't. I also let him know that I wasn't happy to hear that some new customers may be getting the P2 for less than original P1 customers. He said he wasn't authorized to give me the same discount but that he would look into it and let me know. Well back to install.
All you do is replace the stock hose that has the T in it with the new one that looks exactly the same. The new one does have a restrictor pill in it but it's in a different place than the stock one. It's a somewhat of a pain. In the directions they tell you to do it from underneath, the catch is if you don't have the ecu in you can't drive it up on ramps to get underneath which would have made it easier. I don't have a floor jack or stands at home. I would suggest leaving the car on ramps before sending the ecu in to WORKS. I did it from the top and there really isn't any room to get to the wastegate end of the hose. It's very hard to get it off and the fan shroud is literally razor sharp in places where your hands need to go. I left some blood on the car. If you do it from underneath it would be no problem as there is more room. Once you get it off installing the new hose is fairly easy compared to removing the old one. I took the Airbox off, then the upper radiator hose trying to get some more room, it didn't help much. Just had to cram my hands down there and work at it.
You don't need a dyno to tell there is a power increase. How much I don't know. We'll see when Caymandiver gets the dyno results. From the looks of the stock dyno vs P1 I would say WORKS has been conservative in their HP estimates. Hopefully they've done the same with the P2.
Last edited by mojo; Oct 9, 2003 at 08:35 PM.
Oct 9, 2003, 08:39 PM
#131
Seems people are so pissed about the pricing, that a few are trying to turn Works dyno days into "Other Vendor" dyno days...
With WORKS current prices I would much rather go with a Dynoflash GB in St. Louis next month than the currently scheduled Works GB here...
is it too late to switch vendors for the November 1st group buy at Axis?? Have a dynoflash day instead of a Works day?
Maybe we should SERIOUSLY discuss this option in light of the P2's initial pricing...
is it too late to switch vendors for the November 1st group buy at Axis?? Have a dynoflash day instead of a Works day?
Maybe we should SERIOUSLY discuss this option in light of the P2's initial pricing...
Last edited by Zeus; Oct 9, 2003 at 08:42 PM.
Oct 9, 2003, 09:42 PM
#132
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Yep Zeus,
WORKS made a big mistake with this pricing. Not only with potential customers but existing ones also. They have a great product, I know I just installed the P2 today and felt some good power gains. I payed the $200 as I already had the P1 and was very happy with that flash. Looks like all the group buyers are bailing to Dynoflash. Not a good time for the Boss to be on vacation. I really don't blame them Dynoflash is answering all their questions and charging a very reasonable price. They picked a very poor time to jack up the price of the P1 and charge $250 more for P2 boost control. Not a word here from WORKS.
WORKS made a big mistake with this pricing. Not only with potential customers but existing ones also. They have a great product, I know I just installed the P2 today and felt some good power gains. I payed the $200 as I already had the P1 and was very happy with that flash. Looks like all the group buyers are bailing to Dynoflash. Not a good time for the Boss to be on vacation. I really don't blame them Dynoflash is answering all their questions and charging a very reasonable price. They picked a very poor time to jack up the price of the P1 and charge $250 more for P2 boost control. Not a word here from WORKS.
Last edited by mojo; Oct 9, 2003 at 09:48 PM.
Oct 9, 2003, 10:06 PM
#133
The crowd is fickle... the average US customer will always give up a little quality for a decent price break... when the break is half, there is nothing for them to even think about. I, myself, really wanted the P2 (as its been dubbed), but feel screwed even paying the $200 plus shipping as a current P1 user. Now Dynoflash gos on a US tour charging $595 for a custom map including dyno time. For the price of the Works P1, and P2 upgrade, and 2X shipping of the ECU, I could of had the Dynoflash custom tune with a Buschur muffler delete pipe! From what I'm seeing, that would have been in the 270 to 280 whp range... 
Oct 10, 2003, 12:00 AM
#134
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Zeus,
I couldn't see going elseware and paying full price again. I'll just write it off as a learning experience. I new there would be new companies and new products but I didn't expect WORKS to make such a poor business decision. In talking with them they've always been willing to answer my questions and seemed like they were commited to they're customers.
I guess you will not pay the $200 for the P2?
It looked like Dynoflash was offering a through the mail flash with boost control minus the dyno tuning for $225. If that is correct and it's a safe flash which it looks like it is I really don't see WORKS getting many new customers without getting on here and explaining what the difference is. Look at all the info Dynoflash has provided in just a couple of weeks.
I couldn't see going elseware and paying full price again. I'll just write it off as a learning experience. I new there would be new companies and new products but I didn't expect WORKS to make such a poor business decision. In talking with them they've always been willing to answer my questions and seemed like they were commited to they're customers.
I guess you will not pay the $200 for the P2?
It looked like Dynoflash was offering a through the mail flash with boost control minus the dyno tuning for $225. If that is correct and it's a safe flash which it looks like it is I really don't see WORKS getting many new customers without getting on here and explaining what the difference is. Look at all the info Dynoflash has provided in just a couple of weeks.
Oct 10, 2003, 04:49 AM
#135
Originally posted by mojo
Zeus,
I couldn't see going elseware and paying full price again. I'll just write it off as a learning experience. I new there would be new companies and new products but I didn't expect WORKS to make such a poor business decision. In talking with them they've always been willing to answer my questions and seemed like they were commited to they're customers.
I guess you will not pay the $200 for the P2 ?
It looked like Dynoflash was offering a through the mail flash with boost control minus the dyno tuning for $225. If that is correct and it's a safe flash which it looks like it is I really don't see WORKS getting many new customers without getting on here and explaining what the difference is. Look at all the info Dynoflash has provided in just a couple of weeks.
Zeus,
I couldn't see going elseware and paying full price again. I'll just write it off as a learning experience. I new there would be new companies and new products but I didn't expect WORKS to make such a poor business decision. In talking with them they've always been willing to answer my questions and seemed like they were commited to they're customers.
I guess you will not pay the $200 for the P2 ?
It looked like Dynoflash was offering a through the mail flash with boost control minus the dyno tuning for $225. If that is correct and it's a safe flash which it looks like it is I really don't see WORKS getting many new customers without getting on here and explaining what the difference is. Look at all the info Dynoflash has provided in just a couple of weeks.
I think I'd rather take a swift kick in the nuts than bend over and grab my ankles... it's not an issue of money... I can blow $200 on a meal for the wife and I pretty easily (not including the extra $100 in shipping)... and when all is said and done, and I'm ready to take the next step, it is about as tangible as a steak you enjoyed for a short while. I am very torn, I was so very happy with Works and my P1. Now, I just don't know if I would ever do business with them again... I damn sure won't recommend them. Guess it depends on how they proceed... I have not seen praise yet from a single customer since this development... not one!
Last edited by Zeus; Oct 10, 2003 at 04:55 AM.